The Office: "The Meeting" (open spoilers)

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Kind of a dick move for Jim to go behind Michael's back like that. Glad it blew up on him. I think the "co-manager" thing is kind of lame, though. Hope that's not permanent.

The B story was pretty good. Darryl's sister made me laugh.

I was a little surprised that Jim and Pam don't want their coworkers to come to their wedding, but I guess they've always been a little snotty and "above" the rest of the crew.

I laughed at Kelly telling pam she only wanted to go to the wedding if Ryan was there (...otherwise it's a big waste of time").

[MPB in Salt Lake]

I liked the inclusion of a shaker can of parmesan cheese in the cheese platter...........

also

"I once had a glass of cognac that cost 77 dollars"

[enalzi]

Obviously a transitional episode to set up the rest of the season, so not a real hoot, but still a good one. i like Andy's little part about his bad sales ("Again with the cousin?")

I didn't really think Jim was dick, seeing as he was trying to get Michael promoted as well. And he was right about how it probably would have gone just as bad had he told Michael and he wanted to help.

I'm not surprised about having the wedding far away either, considering they wanted to elope. I also remember Phyllis's wedding being one of the most cringe-worthy episodes of all time. Sure, some of the office workers aren't too bad, but would you want Dwight, Angela, Meredith, and Creed at your wedding?

Also, I'm really curious as to what other job offer Jim got.

[DigitalC]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I was a little surprised that Jim and Pam don't want their coworkers to come to their wedding, but I guess they've always been a little snotty and "above" the rest of the crew.

You'd want any of them at your wedding?

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Even if Jim was trying to get Michael promoted too, it was still presumptuous and arrogant to do it behind his back. He may have meant well, but would anybody really want an underling secretly trying to make career decisions about them without consulting them.

Michael's criticisms were not entirely without merit either.

I forgot about Any's cheese platter. That was pretty funny. It not only contained a shaker of parmesan, but a bottle of blue cheese dressing.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by DigitalC

You'd want any of them at your wedding?

No. Good point.

[Rubystreak]

Jim was afraid that Michael's "help" would fuck it up, but he should have told him. The scary part was, the criticisms of Jim that Michael made were right on target. But of course, Michael winds up screwing himself over in the end.

I cannot blame Jim and Pam one bit for not wanting their co-workers at the wedding, and the ep amply demonstrated why. Meredith, Ryan, Angela, Kelly, all snotty, neurotic assholes in this episode. They should have just eloped. I wouldn't invite Angela to my wedding if I were Pam after she told Pam her baby would be a bastard.

The Darryl/Dwight storyline was hilarious. Of course, Toby is the person who winds up screwed in the end.

[Tangent]

Originally Posted by Rubystreak

The scary part was, the criticisms of Jim that Michael made were right on target.

Maybe, but weren't those criticisms (the ones in Jim's file, right?) actually made by Toby? Toby, who had a huge crush on Pam and was jealous that Jim spent time flirting and goofing with her. Not exactly an unbiased assessment.

[devilsknew]

You guys are missing the Greatest Morsel... There is going to be a wedding episode! Dwight at a reception... the possibilities are endless!

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Originally Posted by Tangent

Maybe, but weren't those criticisms (the ones in Jim's file, right?) actually made by Toby? Toby, who had a huge crush on Pam and was jealous that Jim spent time flirting and goofing with her. Not exactly an unbiased assessment.

Not unbiased, but not inaccurate either. Jim really does have a history of being lackadaisical about his job.

Is it entirely appropriate to put Jim in a position of being his wife's boss? That seems like it could be problematic both at work and at home.

[The Second Stone]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

I liked the inclusion of a shaker can of parmesan cheese in the cheese platter...........

also

"I once had a glass of cognac that cost 77 dollars"

I once had a glass that cost $120. Louis XIII Remy Martin. Damn fine cognac, but not worth that much, especially as I don't usually have a full glass of liquor.

[Max the Immortal]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Not unbiased, but not inaccurate either. Jim really does have a history of being lackadaisical about his job.

Indeed. Not only that, but we've seen in the past that Jim is like Michael in a lot of ways. Michael was (and in theory still is) a great salesman, but a legendarily bad boss. Jim is a fairly good salesman, but he's prone to dickish behavior and has screwed up most or all past instances of being in charge (with hilarious results).

It's tempting to say that Jim is going to end up as another Michael Scott, but it looks like he's going to be a husband and a daddy, which is the exact emotional outlet that Michael so desperately needs and craves. Of course, if something does split Jim and Pam apart, that would make his descent into Michaeldom all the more tragic.

[tr0psn4j]

The bit with Micheal asking Oscar for colonoscopy advice was by far the funniest thing in the episode.

So gay men of straightdope, any advice on making a colonoscopy more pleasurable for yourself and your doctor?

How does Michael still have a job?

[Kal]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Is it entirely appropriate to put Jim in a position of being his wife's boss? That seems like it could be problematic both at work and at home.

Which will likely make for a few entertaining episodes.

Decent episode. Dwight's reaction to Jim's promotion - "AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!" - cracked me the hell up.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by tr0psn4j

How does Michael still have a job?

For some unexplained reason, his branch is doing the best.

WRT inviting the other people to the wedding. There's what everyone else said, plus Pam mentioned it was $75 per plate, so they're probably also trying to keep the costs down.

[Cubsfan]

There were funny moments in this episode but it was generally weak.

Yet ANOTHER unbelievable-by-any-stretch-of-the-imagination-Homer-Simpson-moment where Michael behaves like a borderline retard and rides into the meeting room inside a cheese cart.

And the whole plotline where Jim has a secret meeting with David in which he tells him "Promote my boss and then make me branch manager!" is completely unrealistic and would never happen in real life. It's not up to a salesman to tell corporate to make changes to his management and oh-by-the-way promote me too.

Uh huh.

The opening sequence with Oscar was the funniest part. By far.

[Hal Briston]

Originally Posted by Tangent

Maybe, but weren't those criticisms (the ones in Jim's file, right?) actually made by Toby?

It seemed to me that Michael later implied that wasn't a real file.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by Cubsfan

And the whole plotline where Jim has a secret meeting with David in which he tells him "Promote my boss and then make me branch manager!" is completely unrealistic and would never happen in real life. It's not up to a salesman to tell corporate to make changes to his management and oh-by-the-way promote me too.

Jim got another job offer. I think he went to David and asked him to match it (which would mean making him branch Manager). My guess is that David told Jim that there is already a branch manager and Jim tossed out the idea of promoting Michael.

[Chefguy]

Originally Posted by Hal Briston

It seemed to me that Michael later implied that wasn't a real file.

It was real. Toby wrote that review way back when he had the hots for Pam and was trying to stick it to Jim (an ep from several seasons ago).

[Lamia]

Originally Posted by enalzi

I'm not surprised about having the wedding far away either, considering they wanted to elope. I also remember Phyllis's wedding being one of the most cringe-worthy episodes of all time. Sure, some of the office workers aren't too bad, but would you want Dwight, Angela, Meredith, and Creed at your wedding?

I liked this episode, but this subplot seemed a little odd to me given the events of the "Cafe Disco" episode. I can totally understand Pam and Jim wanting to get married quietly without their coworkers present and they were indeed on the verge of just eloping, but changed their minds at the last minute. IIRC their reasons were not stated explicitly, they just said they decided they wanted to have a wedding, but I certainly got the impression that Pam and Jim had realized they wanted their annoying but sometimes lovable coworkers present after all. So it seemed a little strange to me that they would then try to discourage all their coworkers from coming.

Of course, given the kinds of people they work with Pam and Jim might very well have had second thoughts about the wisdom of inviting the whole office. But their apparent change of heart with no explanation bothered me a bit.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I just remembered my favorite exchange from the episode.


Dwight: I didn't know we were in communist Sweden.

Darryl: If we were in Sweden we wouldn't have this problem because we'd have universal health care.

[UncleRojelio]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I just remembered my favorite exchange from the episode.


Dwight: I didn't know we were in communist Sweden.

Darryl: If we were in Sweden we wouldn't have this problem because we'd have universal health care.

Which shut Dwight up completely. Maybe for the first time ever.

[MyFootsZZZ]

I liked the episode, but agree with Dio the "co-manager" thing is weird. I understand why Jim wouldn't telling Michael everything. But Dio's opinion about Jim is probably right, in that Michael should have at least known that 'HIS' job wasn't in danger. Of course it didn't matter because Michael was able to almost screw thing up anyway, and dicked Jim over. I knew it wouldn't end with Jim not getting something out of the deal, but (like Dio), "Co-manager" sounds weird... how often does that happen? Jim's a good buffer between Michael and corporate... a 'ringleader' in the office circus. I don't think the branch would function without him, so "co-manager" doesn't sound like a bad place for him, I just doesn't know any situations in real life where there are co-managers, (except for small businesses where you have co-partners).

I really like the episodes that make changes to the dynamic of the show, so long as they're relatively well implemented. So, to someone who doesn't know all that much about business, does the fact that the Scranton branch has "co-managers" make any sense given the circumstances of the Buffalo branch closing?

Glad to see Dio authoring the thread.
I always want to talk about the show on here, but I don't feel comfortable making a thread about it all the time.

[ShadiRoxan]

Originally Posted by Lamia

I liked this episode, but this subplot seemed a little odd to me given the events of the "Cafe Disco" episode. I can totally understand Pam and Jim wanting to get married quietly without their coworkers present and they were indeed on the verge of just eloping, but changed their minds at the last minute. IIRC their reasons were not stated explicitly, they just said they decided they wanted to have a wedding, but I certainly got the impression that Pam and Jim had realized they wanted their annoying but sometimes lovable coworkers present after all. So it seemed a little strange to me that they would then try to discourage all their coworkers from coming.

Of course, given the kinds of people they work with Pam and Jim might very well have had second thoughts about the wisdom of inviting the whole office. But their apparent change of heart with no explanation bothered me a bit.

I didn't get the impression that they wanted to have their co-workers there. It was more that they wanted to have things like the first dance and such.

[MyFootsZZZ]

Originally Posted by Tangent

Maybe, but weren't those criticisms (the ones in Jim's file, right?) actually made by Toby? Toby, who had a huge crush on Pam and was jealous that Jim spent time flirting and goofing with her. Not exactly an unbiased assessment.

It could have been when Ryan was in charge, and gave Jim the 'formal warning'.

Originally Posted by Chefguy

It was real. Toby wrote that review way back when he had the hots for Pam and was trying to stick it to Jim (an ep from several seasons ago).

Yes.

[Tom Tildrum]

The wedding subplot was funny, but the rest of the episode left me a bit cold. The "co-managers" theme seems too similar to last season with Charles; it's another variation of "how does Michael freak out when he thinks his job is threatened?" And Michael's saving grace is that he's good-hearted, even when he's completely thoughtless (as with Stanley's affair); when he's deliberately sabotaging a colleague, he's a different person.

I thought it was out of character for Toby to go with Dwight on a stake-out and then to yell an obscenity. Also, Darryl is always so glum that he's just a downer, and his sister was more of the same. This is a screwball comedy, and it takes me out of the show to contemplate that in real life people would file complaints and call each other "sad."

[typoink]

Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum

The wedding subplot was funny, but the rest of the episode left me a bit cold. The "co-managers" theme seems too similar to last season with Charles; it's another variation of "how does Michael freak out when he thinks his job is threatened?" And Michael's saving grace is that he's good-hearted, even when he's completely thoughtless (as with Stanley's affair); when he's deliberately sabotaging a colleague, he's a different person.

I thought it was out of character for Toby to go with Dwight on a stake-out and then to yell an obscenity. Also, Darryl is always so glum that he's just a downer, and his sister was more of the same. This is a screwball comedy, and it takes me out of the show to contemplate that in real life people would file complaints and call each other "sad."

I mostly agree, but I loved Toby yelling. I think it's totally in-character -- Toby's a pushover who's gotta be bottling up some serious frustrations. I think finding himself in a position where he could lash out and be totally in the right would be a serious temptation for him.

[nivlac]

Actually I disagree with those who think that Jim should not have gone over Michael's head about his job offer. He had a legitimate offer and needed to decide his future with the company. To date, he was denied chances for advancement within the company primarily because of Michael, who admitted as such ("because he didn't want to lose Jim, Pam, and the baby"). Jim had nothing to lose since he had another offer. The part of the plot that was contrived was David coming down to the Scranton branch office to meet with Jim. In real life, Jim would make the trip to David's office, but the meeting in Scranton allowed the writers to put in some Michael shenanigans. In his meeting with David Jim proposed a bigger job for Michael, and then replacing him as manager of Scranton/Buffalo. That's a win-win for Michael and him. But Michael didn't know that and screwed it up for both of them. At the end, Jim got his promotion, but Michael got a de facto demotion. Overall, just an episode to start this season's story arc, not a particularly great episode, but salvaged by Dwight's SCREAM!

[MyFootsZZZ]

Perhaps if Jim were to tell Michael he had an idea that would benifit the company, but he would have to run it by David before telling him. Of course, by now Mike shouldn't assume Jim would go over his head with anything that would lead to bad things for him

It's a little weird for Davidor Jim to, like nivlac said, have a meeting in that Office room, under his nose. Or at least have had him clued in to the point where he shouldn't have to worry.

From the deleted scene, it's more clear the workload's been pretty crazy for Michael.

http://www.nbc.com/The_Office/video/...p-one/1160593/

[Tom Tildrum]

I may have missed it: did Jim really have another offer, or was he just saying that?

[Jas09]

Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ

From the deleted scene, it's more clear the workload's been pretty crazy for Michael.

Well, yeah, imaging having a job where you have to work *every day*. And he even had to come in on Saturday...

[gigi]

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

I laughed at Kelly telling pam she only wanted to go to the wedding if Ryan was there (...otherwise it's a big waste of time").

"But I do want to 'be there' for Jim."

[Rubystreak]

Originally Posted by gigi

"But I do want to 'be there' for Jim."

It was worse than that. It was "be there to support Jim." As if marrying Pam were something that Jim needed his friends around him to get through it.

Meredith was really hoping that they would be serving ribs at the wedding.

[Shalmanese]

I had a completely different interpretation about the episode that everyone else. Notice how at the very beginning of this episode, David Wallace asks Michael for a rundown of the clients and Michael treats it as if it's no big thing whereas Jim was completely flummoxed by a similar request last season.

Michael was having one of his rare moments of managerial competence in the private meeting when he points out that, while Jim is likable, making him manager would be a big mistake. He hasn't shown any particular competence in either sales or management. At various points in the show, Dwight, Andy & Stanley have been singled out for having excellent sales but never Jim. And the few times we've seen Jim in charge while Michael is away have inevitable lead to disaster.

[RandMcnally]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Michael was having one of his rare moments of managerial competence in the private meeting when he points out that, while Jim is likable, making him manager would be a big mistake. He hasn't shown any particular competence in either sales or management. At various points in the show, Dwight, Andy & Stanley have been singled out for having excellent sales but never Jim. And the few times we've seen Jim in charge while Michael is away have inevitable lead to disaster.

I thought it has been shown that Jim is an excellent salesman. An example would be where they had the office Olympics and Jim said, "yeah, I made all my sales this morning" or something like that. And a couple of seasons ago Jim was proud of himself when he landed the sale at the golf course because that was the first time he had to actually work for one.

[Lamia]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Michael was having one of his rare moments of managerial competence in the private meeting when he points out that, while Jim is likable, making him manager would be a big mistake. He hasn't shown any particular competence in either sales or management. At various points in the show, Dwight, Andy & Stanley have been singled out for having excellent sales but never Jim. And the few times we've seen Jim in charge while Michael is away have inevitable lead to disaster.

I think you're right in that Jim has yet to display any notable managerial skills, but I'm pretty sure there have been references to him as one of the branch's best salesman and indeed one of the best salesmen for all of Dunder-Mifflin.

[Mahaloth]

Originally Posted by Lamia

I think you're right in that Jim has yet to display any notable managerial skills, but I'm pretty sure there have been references to him as one of the branch's best salesman and indeed one of the best salesmen for all of Dunder-Mifflin.

I think Dwight is the top salesmen most years, at least he was when he won the award a few years ago.

He has the kind of sociopathic dedication that lends well to sales.

[Joey P]

Originally Posted by Lamia

I think you're right in that Jim has yet to display any notable managerial skills, but I'm pretty sure there have been references to him as one of the branch's best salesman and indeed one of the best salesmen for all of Dunder-Mifflin.

I can't recall Jim ever being called that, usually it's Dwight.

[Lamia]

Originally Posted by Mahaloth

I think Dwight is the top salesmen most years, at least he was when he won the award a few years ago.

He has the kind of sociopathic dedication that lends well to sales.

Dwight is definitely one of the best, but I'm pretty sure Jim is too. I didn't remember this specifically myself, but The Office wiki indicates that Jim was #9 for the entire company the same year that Dwight won #1. This was the same year that Dwight stole Jim's usual biggest sale of the year, so Jim would presumably have been ranked higher (and Dwight lower) in other years.

[enalzi]

It's always been shown that Jim is good, he just didn't care because he doesn't want to advance. That's changed recently, and he has worked harder (like the golf episode).

[MyFootsZZZ]

Yes, it's been established Jim get's good numbers. I'm thinking Jim is second to Dwight as far as I can tell, Andy may be in 3rd or 4th*, in that Dwight made fun of him for having slightly better numbers than Phyllis.

*Stanley's the wild-card, but was trying to be poached by Utica branch.

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by Tangent

Maybe, but weren't those criticisms (the ones in Jim's file, right?) actually made by Toby? Toby, who had a huge crush on Pam and was jealous that Jim spent time flirting and goofing with her. Not exactly an unbiased assessment.

Yeah, I remember Toby filing all of Dwight's complaints in a 'super secret folder' that just stayed under Toby's desk.

[Oslo Ostragoth]

Dammit, I'm not carrying my weight in these threads.

Last week's litigation value: $100,000.

This week's litigation value: $50,000.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ

It could have been when Ryan was in charge, and gave Jim the 'formal warning'.

I'm pretty sure those criticisms were either from Ryan or the Black dude who replaced Michael briefly.

And they are pretty accurate. Jim does spend most of his time grabassing with Pam or playing jokes on Dwight. In fact, it's not quite clear why he should manage the Scranton branch.



"HEY ASSHOLE! ARE YOU GOING TO EAT THAT ENTIRE BAG OF DOG FOOD BY YOURSELF?!"

[myskepticsight]

Jim USED to spend all his time fucking around at work, but if you've noticed over the last season or two he has been much calmer at work and more of a voice of reason that tries to stop BS from happening rather than starting it himself. Charles coming in and hating on him for every little thing and ignoring anything good he did changed his attitude at work I think. Since then he has initiated less office hijinks and appears to just want to work then go home.

[Tom Tildrum]

Originally Posted by myskepticsight

Charles coming in and hating on him for every little thing....

Remember that Jim was wearing a tux at work (as part of a prank) the first time Charles met him. They got off to a bad start.

[myskepticsight]

Originally Posted by Tom Tildrum

Remember that Jim was wearing a tux at work (as part of a prank) the first time Charles met him. They got off to a bad start.

I remember that, but I also remember Charles refusing to let Jim explain anything. Yes it is unprofessional to do those types of pranks, but even with the pranks Jim is one of the most "normal" people in that office and did not deserve that level of contempt for Charles. Charles even STILL was mean to Jim at the office picnic way later. A bad start doesn't have to stay bad. Jim tried to get back on the right foot but Charles made it pretty much impossible IIRC.

[filmore]

I think Michael is a good manager for that specific branch because everyone is a little bit of a whack-o. Jim is too normal and would get frustrated dealing with all the crazyness. Michael is fine and actually flourishes in the crazyness.

[Intergalactic Gladiator]

Originally Posted by filmore

I think Michael is a good manager for that specific branch because everyone is a little bit of a whack-o. Jim is too normal and would get frustrated dealing with all the crazyness. Michael is fine and actually flourishes in the crazyness.

Wouldn't that be a way to take the storyline this season? Have Jim go crazy from the craziness around him.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

When Jim's been in charge of the office before, he's always become just a little bit like more Michael (and becoming Michael Scott is his worst nightmare). I think continuing in that direction could render some good comic moments. It was especially funny in one episode where he started to show the first embryonic signs of Toby hatred.