The Office, 11/19/09. (open spoilers)

MyFootsZZZ · #1 11-19-2009, 10:01 PM

I can't really comment on whether I liked the episode or not because my damn cable feed has many occasional 'hiccups', (bandwidth I think), What did Michael purpose to the shareholders? Was Michael right to be pro-active, (did it help and was he right for calling the CEO an idiot?), or was HE being an idiot promising things that are beyond the realm of anyone's possible dreams?

I don't even know if Oscar was being cowardly, or if he didn't have any 'big picture' ideas. Whatever Michael said, the crowd still seemed to turn around unrealistically fast. Even if it was big, they would still be skeptical... (I'm guessing)

LOVED the end with them driving off in the limo.

ShadiRoxan · #2 11-19-2009, 10:17 PM

I think Michael calling the CEO an idiot was just one of those moments where Michael gets something right in the middle of many stupid things.

Loved how Jim proved his authority and how quickly Ryan turned his attitude around.

MyFootsZZZ · #3 11-19-2009, 10:25 PM

I would agree with you if I knew what he told the shareholders was feasible or could buy them more time. If the company's going under anyway, why not through out a 'Hail Mary'?

Intergalactic Gladiator · #4 11-19-2009, 10:28 PM

"Is there Internet in here?"

I was thinking that some sort of plan would come together to save DM. Something obvious and simple that would get all the coworkers cheering like execs giving up bonuses and cars. You can't have that at DM though. Showing the stock price for DMI at the end was hilarious.

StoutHearted · #5 11-19-2009, 11:24 PM

So many moments that made me cringe - it was classic Office.

AuntiePam · #6 11-19-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ

I don't even know if Oscar was being cowardly, or if he didn't have any 'big picture' ideas.

My take on it was that Oscar knew what D-M had done wrong but he had no clue how to fix it. Maybe some cowardice too -- he still has a job to think about.

I like what they're doing, showing how difficult it is to accept a former co-worker (especially one who was a bit of a slacker) as your new boss.

MyFootsZZZ · #7 11-19-2009, 11:39 PM

Ok, so far as I've found looking on the internet it had to do with a point plan?

enalzi · #8 11-19-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyFootsZZZ

Ok, so far as I've found looking on the internet it had to do with a point plan?

Michael didn't have anything. He claimed that when they came back they would reveal a 45- day (which became a 45-point, a point a day) plan. And they would go completely carbon neutral.

Waffle Decider · #9 11-20-2009, 12:07 AM

"How is he going to have grandchildren?"

I think Oscar knows that DM is pretty much fucked at this point, and it's too late to do anything now.

Michael's blank stare when Wallace told him that there was no plan was excellent.

He should have known bringing Michael to the meeting would be a complete disaster. What was he thinking?!

MaxTheVool · #10 11-20-2009, 01:42 AM

I enjoyed the episode, although it did stretch believability to have anyone think bringing Michael Scott to a shareholder meeting would be anything other than a disaster, particularly after the company picnic.

I think the way to think about it is not that everything that happens in all the episodes happens in the same time stream, but rather they're all things that happen in alternate universes, where each individual universe only gets a small portion of the over the top shenanigans.

hajario · #11 11-20-2009, 01:46 AM

I was disappointed that Oscar didn't have any real ideas. He's as full of shit as any of the suits. I was expecting that he would be able to cut through the bullshit and give them a clear plan to follow.

The Second Stone · #12 11-20-2009, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waffle Decider

"How is he going to have grandchildren?"

I think Oscar knows that DM is pretty much fucked at this point, and it's too late to do anything now.

Michael's blank stare when Wallace told him that there was no plan was excellent.

He should have known bringing Michael to the meeting would be a complete disaster. What was he thinking?!

Wallace is not rude like Michael, but he is every bit as much of an idiot when it comes to the behavior of people. Michael was absolutely right in calling them morons. Morons who make 10 times as much as he does.

Omniscient · #13 11-20-2009, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadiRoxan

I think Michael calling the CEO an idiot was just one of those moments where Michael gets something right in the middle of many stupid things.

Loved how Jim proved his authority and how quickly Ryan turned his attitude around.

He didn't call the CEO an idiot, he called the Former Senator and idiot. It's not entirely clear what the Ex-Senator's position on the board is.

My DVR cut off, what did Dwight end up doing at the mike at the end?

tim-n-va · #14 11-20-2009, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniscient

He didn't call the CEO an idiot, he called the Former Senator and idiot. It's not entirely clear what the Ex-Senator's position on the board is.

My DVR cut off, what did Dwight end up doing at the mike at the end?

He gave suggestions on how to make the question line more efficient. Included were a number system and a different line for questions of ten words or less.

Casey1505 · #15 11-20-2009, 08:59 AM

God bless you Recyclops, and your cold robotic heart.

Speak to me Maddie! · #16 11-20-2009, 09:15 AM

If ifs and buts were candies and nuts then every day would be Erntedankfest.

MyFootsZZZ · #17 11-20-2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enalzi

Michael didn't have anything. He claimed that when they came back they would reveal a 45- day (which became a 45-point, a point a day) plan. And they would go completely carbon neutral.

Thanks for answering!

I liked the episode but still think the shareholders turned too quickly. Loved the different receptionists.

Dante · #18 11-20-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Second Stone

Wallace is not rude like Michael, but he is every bit as much of an idiot when it comes to the behavior of people.

I hadn't thought of this before, but you make a good point. How can anyone who knows Michael think it's a good idea to sit him in front of a live mic or even allow him to speak in public?

I think David & Michael are two sides of the same coin. Where Michael needs others to believe he is the best, David wants to believe the best of others.

They're like a perfect storm of stupid.

Merijeek · #19 11-20-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hajario

I was disappointed that Oscar didn't have any real ideas. He's as full of shit as any of the suits. I was expecting that he would be able to cut through the bullshit and give them a clear plan to follow.

I was hoping so, too. That being said, I think it just shows that they are really and truly fucked. Thing is, Oscar admits it. The suits tell everyone that it's all under control and blah blah, give us your money and trust.

-Joe

koufax · #20 11-20-2009, 10:52 AM

New York looked more like Los Angeles to me.

Cat Whisperer · #21 11-20-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadiRoxan

I think Michael calling the CEO an idiot was just one of those moments where Michael gets something right in the middle of many stupid things.

Loved how Jim proved his authority and how quickly Ryan turned his attitude around.

I loved how it was classic "put the bad kid in the corner" (or the closet, even), and Ryan acted just like a bad kid who's been caught.

Yeah, anyone who brings Michael Scott to a serious meeting gets what they deserve. And I think I have to remember Dwight's little rhyme there.

Diogenes the Cynic · #22 11-20-2009, 11:12 AM

I'm not so sure that Oscar didn't have any ideas, so much as he just didn't have the guts to tell them to the suits when the opportunity arose.

Michael's basic idea wasn't so terrible. Giving the shareholders the idea that there was a "plan" in the works, and that D-M knew what it was doing could have worked at least temporarily to quell panic and stop shareholders from leaving.

Picking the brains of bright employees like Oscar is, likewise, not a bad idea. t's better than doing nothing, anyway.

Lightsaber · #23 11-20-2009, 11:37 AM

My impression was that Oscar was completely over his head, that his ideas were too obvious to mention to a group of people who (in theory anyway) knew how to run a business.

Dante · #24 11-20-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

Michael's basic idea wasn't so terrible. Giving the shareholders the idea that there was a "plan" in the works, and that D-M knew what it was doing could have worked at least temporarily to quell panic and stop shareholders from leaving.

Well sure, but it's not like Michael actually thinks that way. His whole thought process is "Oh noez, people don't like me. Say something to make them like me!" It doesn't matter to him if what he says is true or even remotely possible.

Lunar Saltlick · #25 11-20-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante

Well sure, but it's not like Michael actually thinks that way. His whole thought process is "Oh noez, people don't like me. Say something to make them like me!" It doesn't matter to him if what he says is true or even remotely possible.

But he had the correct instinct -- to calm the fires, get out of sight for a cool down and come up with a plan. And this time, he thought he had a guy with a plan. And he maybe did, but the guy chickened out. This episode was really about Oscar. He's generally the brightest, sanest guy in the office, and like so many of these guys, he clams up and shuffles away precisely when he gets his chance to shine. You see it all the time in any office. Instead of risking it and maybe embarrassing himself and others, he just gets out of the way. Nothing ventured, nothing gained? To hell with that, he thinks, there's probably not much to gain and I just want the spotlight off of me, anyway. He really actually needed some of Michael's moronic bravado. Pretty good episode: Michael, ready and willing to lead, but utterly clueless; Oscar, some good smarts, but utterly unwilling to get involved; Jim, kinda getting the mix right, showing some balls and smarts at the same time; and Dwight, completely out in left field, as usual.

MyFootsZZZ · #26 11-20-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cat Whisperer

I loved how it was classic "put the bad kid in the corner" (or the closet, even), and Ryan acted just like a bad kid who's been caught.

Yeah, anyone who brings Michael Scott to a serious meeting gets what they deserve. And I think I have to remember Dwight's little rhyme there.

That's the thing, when Michael started talking about how he got the crowd excited, David conceded, while the others scoffed. No they didn't have a plan, but why not take some time to think of something to offer them? Or rehearse their response's to the crowd? It didn't seem like the shareholders were that bright anyway, any vague attempt at a solution thrown at them afterwards may have been enough to keep the company afloat. Even if what Michael offered was unrealistic, he's the only one that had the sense of urgency to try and do something about it.

It seemed like they were fucked as it was, David didn't even really seem too upset about Michael's "bankruptcy" slip. I think David might know that when Michael's involved, things could go either way, and at this point, would it matter? I'm not saying it's a pony I would personally bet on, but maybe David is going for broke. David didn't prep him at all either. Michael didn't know what he was getting into from the start, and seemed baffled by the boo's.

I'm glad Oscar chickened out, (or didn't know of what to say). For as outspoken as he was, I'm glad he didn't cause a sudden brainstorm session and find a way to save the company in the fifteen minutes they had. It would have been more of a cliche if Oscar did have his moment to tell everyone what he thought, instead he left. You can't blame him, Michael did put him on the spot. He was practically asking for the chance when he decided to go, but he just couldn't do it.

I'm with Dio.

Dante · #27 11-20-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar Saltlick

But he had the correct instinct -- to calm the fires, get out of sight for a cool down and come up with a plan. And this time, he thought he had a guy with a plan.

I disagree. When they went into the room, he had them try to come up with a plan. Backwards. "Day 45, company saved. Day 44, go!" So basically, he offered a solution to the shareholders that didn't exist, and then tried to make reality fit his pulled-out-of-his-ass solution. Oscar came later when Michael realized his "plan" wasn't going to work. Totally agree about Oscar though. I really wish he'd tee'd off on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunar Saltlick

...and Dwight, completely out in left field, as usual.

I loved how they used the secretary they had brought in to replace Pam when she was away at school, in Recyclops' third or fourth year flashback. That was a nice piece of continuity.

Biffy the Elephant Shrew · #28 11-20-2009, 12:17 PM

I wanted to find out who Ryan and Creed were talking about in the break room. ("Are you in love with her, or only with the idea of her?") Or did I miss something?

Diogenes the Cynic · #29 11-20-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante

I disagree. When they went into the room, he had them try to come up with a plan. Backwards. "Day 45, company saved. Day 44, go!" So basically, he offered a solution to the shareholders that didn't exist, and then tried to make reality fit his pulled-out-of-his-ass solution. Oscar came later when Michael realized his "plan" wasn't going to work. Totally agree about Oscar though. I really wish he'd tee'd off on them.

He was trying to get the executives to brainstorm with him, and at least TRY to come up with some kind of plan, which is what they should have been doing anyway. I still see that as a correct instinct. He was the only one who at least wanted to try. The others were fatalistic and apathetic.

gigi · #30 11-20-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadiRoxan

I think Michael calling the CEO an idiot was just one of those moments where Michael gets something right in the middle of many stupid things.

Businesses are going belly up all over; there's no reason to think the CEO (or the Senator) are idiots.

Merijeek · #31 11-20-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew

I wanted to find out who Ryan and Creed were talking about in the break room. ("Are you in love with her, or only with the idea of her?") Or did I miss something?

It was just Ryan being a pretentious dick (and avoiding actually working) as usual.

I'm pretty sure the joke there as that the camera pulled out to show Creed, when he is probably the last person we'd expect to see in that conversation.

-Joe

Merijeek · #32 11-20-2009, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigi

Businesses are going belly up all over; there's no reason to think the CEO (or the Senator) are idiots.

Michael called him an idiot because he insulted Michal some way. Can't remember the exact word.

Anyway, it seemed to me that the execs were there to just get yelled at and keep things going so they could keep drawing their checks as long as possible. They weren't even trying to live up to their responsibilities or improve the situation.

So, maybe not idiots, but pricks at least.

-Joe

gigi · #33 11-20-2009, 12:32 PM

"Does this guy have an off button? Who is this idiot?" and Michael actually is an idiot. But yeah, you're right the top guys probably are pricks.

Dante · #34 11-20-2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

He was trying to get the executives to brainstorm with him, and at least TRY to come up with some kind of plan, which is what they should have been doing anyway. I still see that as a correct instinct. He was the only one who at least wanted to try. The others were fatalistic and apathetic.

It might be a correct instinct, but it's akin to jumping out of a window when your highrise is on fire. Escape is a good instinct, but execution is important. Of course, the other idiots are standing around trying to convince everyone else that the building isn't actually on fire, so they're no better.

satoridt · #35 11-20-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merijeek

Michael called him an idiot because he insulted Michal some way. Can't remember the exact word.

Anyway, it seemed to me that the execs were there to just get yelled at and keep things going so they could keep drawing their checks as long as possible. They weren't even trying to live up to their responsibilities or improve the situation.

So, maybe not idiots, but pricks at least.

-Joe

He called Michael a moron. Michael took offense and talked about how his branch is consistently profitable and said, "I'm not a moron, you're a moron."

Casey1505 · #36 11-20-2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biffy the Elephant Shrew

I wanted to find out who Ryan and Creed were talking about in the break room. ("Are you in love with her, or only with the idea of her?") Or did I miss something?

That particular line sounded very familiar. Like from an 80's teen movie that Creed woud never have seen, and used to make Ryan sound insightful and deep.

DigitalC · #37 11-20-2009, 01:50 PM

I'm with Dio, Michael was the only one who had a good idea at that meeting. That crowd was ready to swallow whatever BS plan they were fed, Michael probably wasn't bright enough to come up with something but after seeing how easily he turned the crowd around the other guys sure as hell should have.

LionelHutz405 · #38 11-20-2009, 02:15 PM

Did Oscar ever say anything to indicate he had a plan? I don't remember anything.

He did a lot of bitching, calling them boobs for hiring a limo when the company is bankrupt, and he's right with that, but that's a long way from having a solution.

MyFootsZZZ · #39 11-20-2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LionelHutz405

Did Oscar ever say anything to indicate he had a plan? I don't remember anything.

No, Michael mentions something about dumping of properties, the Oscar states he and Michael feel as if they are in good hands.

"Limos are for people who make the company money, not lose millions and have no plan."

MPB in Salt Lake · #40 11-20-2009, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey1505

That particular line sounded very familiar. Like from an 80's teen movie that Creed woud never have seen, and used to make Ryan sound insightful and deep.

You are right-----I have heard that line (or one very similar) somewhere before............

DigitalC · #41 11-20-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LionelHutz405

Did Oscar ever say anything to indicate he had a plan? I don't remember anything.

He did a lot of bitching, calling them boobs for hiring a limo when the company is bankrupt, and he's right with that, but that's a long way from having a solution.

Yeah Oscar did mention at the beginning that their long term problem was dumping all those properties that were losing money, but their short term problem was that they were out of money.

alphaboi867 · #42 11-20-2009, 02:57 PM

How much info would the shareholders have about what's going on anyway? For intance would they know before the meeting that Scranton is the only brank still in the black? Or even who Michael is or about his antics?

Intergalactic Gladiator · #43 11-20-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

You are right-----I have heard that line (or one very similar) somewhere before............

Wasn't it from Say Anything?

gigi · #44 11-20-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DigitalC

Yeah Oscar did mention at the beginning that their long term problem was dumping all those properties that were losing money, but their short term problem was that they were out of money.

Right, and then he said something about it being so easy to fix, but then he had to be convinced to get in line to make his point.

Tom Tildrum · #45 11-20-2009, 05:10 PM

In some earlier episode Michael was shown to know Mr. Dunder well enough to be able to ask him to come to a meeting in the Scranton office. How can he have that kind of connection but not have met the current CEO?

Diogenes the Cynic · #46 11-20-2009, 05:21 PM

IIRC, Dunder had sold his shares and was no longer part of the company.

enalzi · #47 11-20-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic

IIRC, Dunder had sold his shares and was no longer part of the company.

He was still a member of the board (but he sends a proxy).

I was a little surprised that Michael had never met the CEO. I wasn't even sure if there was a CEO. It seemed like Wallace was really running the show.