my parents want me to break off my engagement

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m just looking to vent, but sympathy and advice are both welcome, if you have any. (insert pitiful-looking-smiley here)

Here’s the story:

Fiance and I met 5 months ago, and have been engaged for 3. The wedding is planned for June. I know it sounds like this is happening incredibly fast, but in our religious community this sort of time frame is actually pretty normal.

Fiance wants to be a Rabbi. He’s spent the past few months in Rabbinical school. Although he agrees with the ideology and philosophy of the school, he hates the structure and curriculum of the program. He’s been miserable for a few months, and they told him that since he’s so unhappy there, he might as well not come back. (obviously this part is a little more complicated, with negotiations back and forth, but this is the final result.) Since the school was giving him a stipend, and is the only school of this denomination in the country that pays any sort of stipend, he’s pretty much screwed. Right now he has no income, no health insurance, and no way to pay rent on a lease that lasts through July.

I’m finishing up my last semester of college. I want to be a teacher.

Both of us have emotional/psychological issues. I’m clinically depressed and trying to build my life up after a bad episode last year. I have a big problem with procrastination that is deeply rooted in my depression. Obviously, this makes school challenging for me, but somehow I’m getting through. I take antidepressants and I see a therapist once or twice a week. I’m getting closer to the person I want to be, but that’s still a long way away. Fiance has undiagnosed depression and maybe anxiety. He comes from an unstable family. He’s super-sensitive and quite needy and clingy. My parents have already expressed concern that he’s not stable enough for this type of relationship. His needs have definitely impacted my ability to care for myself and my own needs. We know that we have to work on balancing these things and we’ve been trying to make an appointment with a social worker for some couples counseling. With everything that’s been happening, though, we haven’t yet had time.
Fiance himself is willing to see a therapist and even consider medication, except he has no insurance to cover it and can’t afford to pay anything out of pocket. My parents have offered to pay for him to see someone, at least for a while. I’ve tried to find him free clinics and things like that. I know as well as anyone, however, that you can’t force therapy on someone. If he’s not invested in it then there’s no point. He would do it for me, but it’s not really a priority for him right now.

Over the past week or two, our plans for the next few years have been completely destroyed. We have some viable new ideas, but nothing definite yet, since we still need to apply for jobs and graduate schools and things like that in order to make our final decision. When it comes to planning out the next few years, he needs me in his life more than I need him in mine. His options involve either relying on my income or defaulting on loans and leaving the country. I have parents that can support me for a bit, more career options, and a bigger support network in this area.

My parents are, understandably, not happy with this situation. They do like Fiance, but their primary concern is me. They see this as a bad thing for me in my life right now.

The hardest part of all this for me is that my parents are right. This isn’t doing great things for me right now. Even if I were a completely stable, happy, productive person this would be difficult, but I have plenty of my own issues to deal with. So why don’t I? Because I love the guy! And he loves me. we understand each other better than I could have imagined. We trust each other when we are most vulnerable. We’ve only known each other for 5 months and we practically have a secret language of shared references and inside jokes. Life doesn’t always happen the way we want it to. Being a grown-up is hard. That doesn’t mean I’m going to abandon him when times get rough. That’s not commitment. But nevertheless, I’m terrified that he won’t ever be able to pull it together enough to hold down any sort of job. I don’t want to live the rest of my life with him the way he is now, and I can’t predict if he will get the help he needs. I love him, but do I risk my life to be with him?

2

Is deferring the engagement/wedding until you’re both in a much better place to commit your lives to each other an option?

3

right, that would be the logical thing to do. The trouble is that he doesn’t have any good options for things to do in the meantime. If he’s in rabbinical school he won’t have time to work. It would be hard for him to find work outside of the Rabbinic world, though, since most of his education and experience is in that area. He could try something completely unrelated but that would probably make him miserable. Also, our religious beliefs make it extremely difficult for two people to be in this sort of relationship without being married. This is why quick engagements are so common. Trust me, no premarital sex is just the tip of the iceberg.

4

I’m afraid I have no real advice on the relationship angle, but on the practical angle (of earning a living, paying debt etc…) – I take it you’re **both **Jewish? (i.e., you are Jewish; he obviously is, and probably Orthodox (?)) Have you considered moving to Israel?

Upside – as a rabbinical scholar, he’ll find more educational options here than wherever you are; if you want to teach, you could probably easily find a teaching job as an English teacher (I’m going out on a limb here and assuming you’re a native English speaker?) And we have UHC… :slight_smile: (although Psych is sort of the red-headed step-daughter of the Medical Community, in terms of UHC coverage, so I don’t know how well your specific problems would be covered, TBH.)

Downside – it’s definitely a whole new place and a major change in your environment; you’d have to move far away from your support networks, and all the other less-then-great things about uprooting and moving half a world away.

Just throwing this out as an idea.

ETA: On preview I see that you are both definitely Orthodox, as I thought.

5

What about postponing everything six months - a year until everything is settles more.

6

Noone Special, you’ve hit on one of our major conflicts. He has spent 2 years studying in Israel, and I’ve spent one. If he could, he would move back there in a second and study there. The only reason we’re not is me. As you said, it’s a major change in environment. I don’t see myself being able to move there and be happy at this stage in my life. Even though we would probably come back to America for a few years once he has ordination, the prospect of spending the first 3 years of my marriage being miserable in a foreign country where I don’t understand the culture or politics is not exactly appealing. I don’t know, am I being selfish?

7

Never do more for someone else than they are doing for themselves. You say you are searching out free clinics for him - is he looking? You say he is “willing” to go to counseling/take medication - was that the level of commitment which started you on the road to recovery?

You also describe a man who is looking outside himself for the cause of his unhappiness. He “hates the structure”?!? They are paying him to go to school there, it will lead to a degree he needs in order to follow his dream/calling, and he’s bailing because he doesn’t like the structure?!?

There is very little in life more devastating than wasting time trying to make a person happy who is just, chronically dissatisfied. I foresee a long slow decline in which he sends the constant message “if you would only . . .” and so you do, slowly chipping away your strength and resources in the vain hope that it will make him happy/satisfied.

Nothing you do will ever be enough, nothing you give will ever fill the need. You have to walk away and let him learn his lessons in life. With a little luck, he’ll hit bottom and start kicking. More likely, unfortunately, is that he’ll have another enabler on the hook before the month is out.

I’m sorry, I know this is not what you want to hear. But now I’ve taken away YOUR crutch - you can never say that you weren’t warned.

8

One piece of advice to take or discard as preferred: love alone doesn’t make a marriage. Love does not conquer all. Love is not everything.

Making practical decisions is hard, but the hardest decisions are often the right ones.

9

::Backs slowly out of the thread:: :slight_smile:
Sorry, I didn’t realize this was covered, and disputed, ground.

No, not at all.
Personally, obviously, I think you’re wrong about the horrors of living in Israel… :smiley: But I grew up here, and I realize it **would **be a culture-shock for you. So given that it’s just not something you’d be comfortable or happy doing, I think you’re right that it isn’t an option.

10

Maybe I just don’t understand this because I’m not engaged, but can you just put all plans to get married on hold for now? If not it sounds like you’re just not able to be with him at this point in your life. You have to think of your own needs. If you ignore those there’s no guarantee he’ll be happy and you yourself may end up being miserable later.

11

thank you everyone so far for your thoughts. I guess the trouble I’m having is finding the balance between taking care of my own needs, being selfish, and standing by him when times are tough.

oh, and yes, we are both Orthodox, as Noone Special noted.

12

Let m

13

Your options: Marry anyway - not a great spot given that you both have mental health issues and he has a LOT of things to resolve. Plus, I’m guessing divorce would be a huge deal. You could end up saddled with someone who never pulls it together.

Postpone - it doesn’t sound like this is acceptable to your situation, but out in the secular world, that is what I’d recommend. Actually, not really postpone, but defer - go back to dating with a “we might get reengaged in a year.” My guess is that in a secular world, you probably wouldn’t.

Call it off. In your situation, I think your parents are right. You seem aware you aren’t stable enough for major changed (i.e. moving to Isreal), nor do you seem confident that you are stable enough to carry two. That is what at this point you are getting into in this marriage…and in any good marriage over the long term you’ll carry each other for brief periods - you haven’t known this guy long enough to know if he’ll be capable of that when you need it - and you know yourself long enough to know you will - but you know he’s going to need it - probably more than his share. It would be best for both of you if you find partners with very strong cores, capable of carrying you more often than you carry them.

14

I have a couple of questions for you.

You say he’s not satisfied with his program now, even though it leads to ordination and a stipend. What happens if he gets ordained and is dissatisfied with every job he takes? You also said you love him, but what if he gets into counseling and medication and changes? Are you prepared to deal with who could be a radically different person?

ISTM that you both want everything you want, but neither of you are willing to budge, even if it’s for the good of the cause. You want to live near your family, but you know that Israel may be a better option. What’s best for the two of you? Not just you, not just your family, but for you two as a couple?

Love isn’t enough to sustain a healthy marriage. It takes compromise and a willingness to suck it up, at least temporarily, and deal with unpleasant situations. It sounds like he’s not willing to do that. He wants what he wants, even though it may not be feasible. Not a good thing, IMHO.

Give it another six months to a year. Work through your issues, let him work through his, and work on bonding as a couple. Couples counseling may help there.

15

It sounds like you realize that making a permanent commitment at this point would not be in your best interests. So please postpone or call off the engagement for at least a year, or until your fiance becomes stable. Rushing into a commitment at this stage could be catastrophic for you.

16

I can tell you have love for him, deep and strong feelings. However, I also think that intellectually you know this isn’t a right move. It’s been my experience, in life, that ignoring your own spidey sense comes at an extremely high price.

You both move in a religious community that precludes any sexual outlet for the desires you both feel. Right or wrong, it does put a lot of pressure on the followers. When they feel that connection, that spark, with another, it must be extremely strong and motivating. I’m not surprised that swift engagements are the norm. That’s some pretty heady stuff, right there. How not to let it colour your vision, I have no idea.

“Fiance has undiagnosed depression and maybe anxiety. He comes from an unstable family. He’s super-sensitive and quite needy and clingy.” He’s made himself unwelcome in the one institution that offers a stipend and ordination -wow, caring not what impact this position has on your plans together. You’re unsure if he’ll ever get himself together, from the sounds of it. I am a firm believer that when people show you who they really are, it’s your job to see. I think you do see.

Learn this; “You cannot help someone by doing for them, what they should, or could, do for themselves.” Write it down, keep it on your person, pin it on your computer. I have a feeling you’re going to need to hear this adage often, regardless of what you decide to do.

I think you know in your heart that your parents are fully justified worrying that you’re about to make a big mistake. I think you feel it too.

Good luck to you, I think you’re going to need it.

17

It sounds like you’re worried that if you don’t marry now, your circumstances will conspire to prevent you ever marrying.
I’m no expert in these sorts of matters, but it seems to me that if you marry now, the same conspiracy of circumstances is going to make married life incredibly difficult and unrewarding/unfulfilling for you both.

That seems, to me, to weigh out in favour of waiting (and I say this as someone who has in principle no problem with short engagements - my wife and I were married within less than a year of meeting - about 17 years ago)

18

It sounds like neither of you are willing (or able) to give up enough to make the marriage work; and that both of you need much more from each other than either is willing (or able) to give.

Forgive me in advance if this offends you, but blaming your religion for rushing into a marriage after 5 months is pretty lame. You can still choose to be smart about it no matter what the restrictions are. Especially in light of the fact that divorce is so taboo for you.

I agree with the others in this thread – neither of you are in a good position for this. In fact, I’ll take it a step further – it doesn’t matter how much love you two feel right now, your present situations are going to be destructive to each other. This marriage isn’t going to just peter out unhappily, it’s going to explode.

ETA: Love does not conquer all. That’s a fairy tale. There is also no “one great love.” The “one great love” stories you hear from people are simply “happened to be the first compatible match I acted on.”

19

Difficult and painful issues do not get better/simpler/easier once married. If anything, they can get more difficult/painful/complicated. Getting married will not change his dithering, your issues or the hard facts that neither of you has any income, or (at this point) prospects in a very bad economy.

IMO, you need to postpone the marriage until one of you either gets a job or at least finds a program you can settle into. He may well be having some kind of crisis of faith–which is HUGE and he shouldn’t take on attempting to bond in marriage during that. I think you see light at the end of the tunnel for yourself, but you do have to traverse the tunnel to get there–can you do that while attempting to become a wife?

Also IMO, I think you came here to get your POV validated. A natural and normal thing, but I can’t do that. If I understand your religion correctly, marriage is for life and not something to enter into lightly. You both have significant issues to face and handle. Where is the emotional strength and maturity going to come from to make this marriage a success?

20

Again, thank you everyone for your thoughts. I have a few comments.

First- divorce is not taboo for us. it happens all the time. still, it’s a painful process that no one really wants to have to go through, just like in the non-religious world.

about his getting kicked out of school: He’s not the first student there to have the problems he has with the institution, and he won’t be the last. it’s an incredibly demanding program with long hours and homework outside of classes, and the stipend isn’t quite enough to live on so he needs to work a little as well. There are other students a couple years ahead of him who felt the same way he does. The school tried to accommodate them, but they are still somewhat unhappy, so they decided not to bother with my fiance. basically, his difficulties with the program are not unreasonable, it’s just combined with everything else in his life, they were too much to handle.
(and yes, I see that now I’m just making excuses for him.)

postponing is difficult to arrange. what do we do in the meantime? whatever it is, he’ll probably end up resenting me so much that I’ll feel guilty for the rest of my life, if we even end up together.

I don’t believe in the whole soulmates business. I do believe that there are very, very VERY few men out there who would be as good for me as this one is, and the chances of me meeting two men like this in one lifetime seem frighteningly small. Pretty much all of my friends and family who have seen us together agree on how well we suit each other. And we do help each other through hard times.