I have a friend who is a 22 year old college student. She and her boyfriend have been dating since February. Things moved very quickly- after about four months she moved into the apartment across the hall from him. They went on vacation to Mexico this week and got engaged yesterday.
I am feeling sick about it. I have always been very weary of the relationship, for a few reasons.
The 11 year age difference, which I recognize is not uncommon, but I think it is a factor when the younger party is still a student with her parents paying her rent.
He is recently divorced, as in, less than 2 years. It would seem to me that, with a divorce being so fresh in your past, you would want to wait a little while and not rush into another marriage, so the fact that they’ve been dating less than a year and he’s already proposing when his last marriage ended quite swiftly is bothering me. (She isn’t pregnant and she didn’t know him when he was married, so it’s not like he left his wife for her.)
He has a 2 year old daughter. There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with that, but there are lots of red flags here, to me. First, that he wasn’t willing to work harder on his marriage when there was a child involved and literally got divorced when his daughter was an infant. Second, he had only been dating my friend for about 6 weeks when he introduced her to his daughter, which bothers me because 1. at that point you don’t know if the relationship will go any further than dating and it seems unfair to bring a revolving door of adults into your young child’s life and 2. it seems like a play to manipulate my friend by getting her attached to the little girl. From very early on in their relationship (as in, a few months) he would refer to them (him, my friend, his daughter) as a family and had no problem with his daughter calling my friend “mom” or with other people (strangers, people in restaurants, etc) referring to my friend as the girl’s mother (her mother is still a large part of their life and they share custody, so it isn’t like she’s lacking a mom figure.)
I’m posting this because I don’t want to open my big mouth to a bunch of friends and have it get back to the person it is concerning. I have discussed this with my best friend, her best friend, and a mutual friend, but that’s it. Her best friend is also not supportive of the engagement at all- he said she has confided that she feels like she gave up a lot of her youth for him already, and has hinted that she feels sort of isolated. This morning I literally woke up sick to my stomach with worry. My opinion is that he has her right where he wants her- she is a hot 22 year old with no baggage. Who wouldn’t want that? But she’s also a typical 22 year old who is more interested in the wedding than the marriage and doesn’t get what this is all about- and that’s why I think he popped the question so quickly, because he wants to make it legal before she can realize that.
What it boils down to is: my intuition is telling me this is not good.
Should I say anything? Obviously, I’m not looking for a confrontation, but I’ve often wondered over the course of their relationship if there was a way I could gently ask if everything was ok (about 6 months ago we went out to dinner and I made a comment about moving past the honeymoon phase in your relationship before you make any major decisions, which she seemed receptive to, but apparently not!) Is there a gentle way that I can say, “Hey, if this isn’t feeling right to you, you know you don’t HAVE to marry him, right?” I don’t wanna poop all over her happiness. Do any of the above things sound like red flags to you, or am I overreacting? I know there is a WIDE range of relationships represented on this board, so I know there will be people out there who think I’m being crazy. I would love for that to be the answer! I just can’t ignore my gut on this one, and since I don’t want to hurt her feelings by discussing it with everyone in our circle of friends, the Dope is my best resource.
Those are all minor opinion points to you alone. If you had evidence of criminal mischief, you should say something. But everything you wrote puts your own judgment on your friend’s relationship and there is no way your friendship will make it to the wedding. One advantage of such an early marriage is that if it does go badly, there is time to move on to another one.
Yea, unless you have some actual information she’s unaware of, I’d keep your mouth shut. Otherwise, your just telling her a bunch of stuff she already knows, has already weighed in her own mind and considered when she decided to get engaged anyways.
“You don’t have to go through with this” isn’t really telling her anything she doesn’t already know, I’m sure she’s aware she doesn’t have to get married. Its just telling her that you think your more qualified to make her life decisions then she is.
I kept reading, expecting to find a smoking gun about his behavior, but there wasn’t one. Maybe they’re an awesome fit together. Some men just want to be married all the time (my father-in-law has had marriages of 13, 19, and 20 years, with less than a year between each).
Of course she knows that intellectually. She knows she’s not going to get arrested or anything if she doesn’t go through with the wedding. But it’s possible she’s gotten caught up in the romance and the relationship, and feels like she has to go through with the wedding now. Maybe she thinks her friends would think less of her for breaking off an engagement, or she’ll never find another good man, especially if she’s broken off an engagement. People can be very afraid of disappointing friends and family, even over stuff that the friends and family would get over.
But at the same time, I’m not sure if she would listen. Usually I think it’s not a great idea to offer unsolicited advice, since people usually aren’t receptive to unsolicited advice, and it’ll only make them think that you are judging them.
Here’s what I think I would do in your situation. If she was talking about the wedding and marriage and was all smiles and happiness, I would say nothing but positive things. If she talked about it, but more hesitantly and not super happy about it, I would gently ask if she was worried about it, see how she’s feeling, and go from there. I’m not saying this is what you should do, but it’s just what I think about it.
I agree that there are a lot of red flags, but there isn’t much you are going to be able to do. When people you care about have made their mind up about something, the most you can do is wish them the best and mentally prepare to help them back up if it was a mistake in the end.
Sometimes, people have to learn a lesson for themselves. In this case, the “what’s the worst that could happen” scenario isn’t actually that bad. She may find herself 24 and divorced, but that’s hardly the worst thing in the world.
Of all the things you’ve mentioned, this is the only one I find really worrisome. Some of the things you suspect might be significant, but I see no evidence that supports them being more than suspicion. Some of the things you mentioned strike me as reaching for something to disapprove of.
Given her age and limited life experience, if she does indeed feel as her best friend has related then I think she would be wise to approach marriage cautiously. A long engagement could work to facilitate that. If a date is already set for less than a year away I would fear the marriage is being rushed into and may not last.
But as to saying anything, I have to agree that there are many pitfalls in doing so. Sam Lowry’s advice makes sense to me.
A recently divorced 33 year old man is tapping a hot 22 year old co-ed and is desperate to get married to her? Please, this is a setup your typical bad egg is going to milk for all it’s worth, not use to pick up a new wife to get divorced from in a few years. He’s the one who knows how crappy marriages can get if you don’t pick the right spouse.
I’m not saying it’s a great idea, I just don’t think a nefarious motive works at all for his choice to propose.
At worst, it’s a somewhat fast proposal, which is not inherently terrible.
2 years is long enough to be looking for long-term relationships after divorce. I find it a little odd he wants to get remarried so soon, but only because I’d see myself acting differently in similar circumstances. It’s not unheard-of, and not that big a deal really. Little odd, but doesn’t ping the creep-o-meter. It sounds like your friend is making a pretty dumb decision, but it doesn’t sound like he’s abusing her or coercing her into this. Maybe he just really, really wants to be in a cohesive parental relationship for the benefit of his daughter, no matter who the mother is. Maybe your friend feels her biological clock ticking, and it doesn’t matter who the husband is. People get married for different reasons. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with this arrangement (or similar “mercenary” reasons for getting married), as long as they treat each other right. Maybe your friend’s baby-clock has just convinced her she’s in love. Maybe the guy is just one of those people who cannot stand to be single, ever. Who cares? It’s really not your problem, and you have to let your loved ones make their own choices–even when you’re 200% convinced their choices are mistakes.
I definitely think you should let her know that you’re totally supportive of her no matter what decision she makes. Because you want her to come to you if she has problems in the future, right? And realistically, if you come out as openly disapproving now, she’s not going to trust you to be impartial if/when this relationship goes south. So, mumble about it to people you can trust to keep the secret. But keep your cool in front of her.
I think this is what I would do, too. I had a friend who was really dubious about getting married right up to the night before, and she ended up with a bad marriage, a kid, and a bad divorce. No one said anything to her to support her bad feeling, and I have to think a bunch of people were wishing they had.
The age difference is a red flag to me; not the span of the years, but the ages. People change so much in their 20s; a guy in his mid-30s has done that already, but a woman in her early 20s hasn’t. If she thinks she’s given up a lot of her youth now, wait 10 years until she’s 32 and starting to sag and has been a mother to someone else’s kid for the last 10 years instead of partying it up and making her own mistakes and having all kinds of life experiences like you’re supposed to in your 20s, before you realize what you actually do want and settle down. I think she will regret this marriage.
I like what you said in the OP, Green Rosetta - let her know that if this truly is what she wants, you will be totally supportive of her, but if she has doubts, you don’t want her to make a mistake she’ll regret.
You’re so, what’s the word? Funny? No, that’s not it…
Yup, this sounds like a bad deal, but it’s not like you’re going to be able to talk her out of it. It’s painful to watch a friend make what you feel is a bad choice, yes, but I really don’t see what you’re going to accomplish by piping up, other than pissing her off. Hell, and if it works (which is possible, I suppose), good for her. If not, you’ll be a good pal and comfort her.
You don’t really have to say anything to her anyway- you’ve already said it to three other people. Knowing people, I’d say she’ll hear about your concerns soon, anyway.
I watched my friend get into a bad marriage and I had a long talk with her before the wedding telling her that she didn’t have to get married and all her friends would support her if she wanted to call it off. But, she was blinded by the idea of a wedding and being married. The discussion didn’t hurt our friendship (I didn’t threaten to disown her for the marriage, just asked her to wait one year to see if she still felt the same way).
Wedding Day +1 yr, they’ve got a kid and the marriage is terrible because he is the arse that he always was, but that she couldn’t see at the time.
Wedding Day +4yrs, she’s getting a divorce and I’m one of the witnesses at the court house.
So, you can tell her your feelings, but don’t expect her to actually act on them. But later, when it goes south, she will recognize that you tried to get her to slow down. That is far better than her saying “Well, if you knew it was a bad idea, why didn’t you say anything?”
(OH and no matter what you do or how it goes… you do know that friends never say “I told you so”)
If you want to hear from me that they shouldn’t get married you’re going to have to find some dirt on this guy. So far he is madly in love with a girl younger than he is and that is bad because…?
Maybe it’s a feeling, a hunch that you can’t explain to us? Because it sounds to me like you are trying to get these facts to back something up, only they don’t.
So what are they like to hang out with together? Is he a nice guy?
The most worrisome thing to me is that you have described yourself as getting physically ill over this. I don’t know if you are prone to anxiety or if you just happen to be really worked up about this one thing, but it’s really not worth your own mental health. I know you love your friend and want what’s best for her, but you can’t control what she does, and you need to accept that she is old enough to make her own decisions and live with the consequences.
Green Rosetta, I don’t mean to be offensive here, but which gender are you, and are you yourself attracted to this friend? Seems like you’re slightly over-reacting to the prospect of her marriage and to me, some things you said read as jealousy.
It seems to me this guy is in a mighty big hurry to create another “nuclear” family. The fact she feels like she’s losing out on her youth is sad. It would be interesting to find out if the fiancé is pushing a lot of the childcare and kiddy activities onto your friend and guilting her if she expresses a desire to do things that aren’t child related.
One thing that makes me uncomfortable about this is having the little girl call her “Mom” when she already has mother who is an active part of her life. IMO, that is totally inappropriate and disrespectful to this child’s mother and will only serve to create hostilities with the biological mother and confusion for the baby. Even if your friend goes through with this wedding and becomes this baby’s stepmother, she should never try to take the place of her mother.
I think you should tell her. What the hell else are friends for? Nothing pisses me off worse than to finally crawl half-dead out of the wreckage of some nightmare and have some arsehole “friend” tell me, “yeah, I never liked him.”
Tell her. Don’t make her answer the basis of whether you continue the friendship. Don’t whine and scream that her life will be ruined forever if she does this. Don’t catastrophize. Just tell her the truth about your concerns and your deep, gut feeling that this is a really bad idea.
Make sure she knows that you are her friend and will stand by her no matter what decision she makes, but you felt true friendship demanded honesty in this situation.
