I’d appreciate it if you would relate how it was about how it was when your kids got engaged. My 22-yo oldest recently moved in with her BF of a year and a half. Says they intend to get engaged sometime this summer, and married next summer.
What is uncomfortable is that just about every time we seem him/them, he does or says little things that kinda bug my wife and me. Just stupid little things, like not making eye contact. Or last time my daughter said something about getting engaged (she brought it up) and he said “The more you keep bringing it up, the longer I’m going to wait before asking you.” Which I thought was most likely a joke, but it sounded kinda dickish and I thought it odd to say in front of the parents of the girl you are living with. But it is kinda like the more we see of him, the less we like him.
Like I said, I know this is all little stuff. He has a steady job and all. I’m pretty sure my daughter would not stand for someone who was a jerk to her - but I am not certain as she was in one long-ish relationship with a depressed guy who very much isolated her. My wife and I don’t have to love him, so long as my daughter does. And I have no doubt to at least some extent we are being overprotective of our daughter, and overcritical of her prospective suitor.
So I’d appreciate your experiences to help me get through this as gracefully as I might.
Sit down and have a frank honest conversation with your daughter. I got married the first time when I was 23. I wish my parents would have told me back then they had reservations about my fiance’. I am a big proponent of encouraging people to wait until they are in their late 20’s before considering marriage. Most people at 22/23 don’t even really know who they are themselves, much less what type of person they should be settling down with for a lifetime. Maturity goes a long way.
Talking with your daughter honestly is a risky gambit, she may become offended and run to him which may create a gap that you may not want. But if you have genuine reservations about him, I would think it’s your duty to share those with her. From your past posts, I think you have a pretty good relationship with your daughter. Good luck.
I’d say before you sit down and talk to her, you sit down and talk to * him.* Having reservations about the man who’s about to take your daughter away is normal, but things like avoiding eye contact or making what you think are inappropriate comments are pretty minor in my opinion, and can simply be chalked up to him just being young and socially awkward. Have a frank discussion with him; maybe go out and loosen his lips with a couple of beers. If you have some apprehension after that, talk to your daughter.
I was young when I got married, [older than your daughter] and the one thing I wish I knew then that I know now - was how to love authentically. I know now that I was so in love that I was overlooking some things that should not have been over looked. But then I was 24, fresh out of grad school, and had the world in my pocket.
As to your question - have a very frank talk with your daughter in a way only you can. Reference your own marriage if need be, after all your daughter witnessed the whole thing no? Be honest.
My father and my husband bonded over golf - and fatherly advice. My husband didn’t play golf, but had a need to learn for work. My Dad got him over the learning hump - and turns out he enjoys it.
As for your reservations, I’d just let her know that its ok to wait, its ok to change her mind, and its ok to get married and she has your support whatever she does.
Frankly, your OP doesn’t give me much to work with. I don’t see anything that is objectionable or raises red flags. So he doesn’t make eye contact. Not everyone can be as suave as you, Dinsdale!
If you have a specific, legitimate concern that you can articulate clearly, then it is absolutely within your rights as her parent to bring that up. But it has to be specific, and legitimate, and you have to be able to articulate it clearly. I can’t stress that enough!
If you don’t have a clear concern, and you try to talk with your daughter anyway, it is a near-certainty that you will push her away from you and towards him. Look at it this way: she is at an age where she wants to assert her independence as an adult. Right? And she chose this guy, right? So if you question her choice, you practically force her to defend her choice, even if she’s secretly having doubts herself about the relationship. Don’t put her on the defensive. (More easily said than done!)
In case I didn’t make it clear: “Honey, I don’t like that guy. He won’t even look me in the eyes!” does not count as a legitimate concern IMHO. Don’t bring it up. Maybe he’s shy, maybe he’s intimidated by the notion of you being his potention future father-in-law, maybe he needs new glasses. “Honey, I just kinda don’t like him!” won’t help your case either. Clearly, she likes him, and that’s good enough for her.
It may be that your intuition is trying to tell you something here. I’ve never gotten those little warnings about people and had it work out well in the end, and I think that you should listen to your gut and follow through. Unfortunately, there’s not much you can do to follow through except speak frankly to your daughter. You don’t have to be a drama queen to say to yourself and her, “Hey, there’s something weird going on here, even if I’m not quite sure what it means.”
There was only one thing one person said to me before my marriage that really gave me pause. In the end, I ignored it, and I’m really sorry I did, but if even one more person had told me this, I might have backed out.
“Honey, you know you don’t have to marry him just because we’re all expecting you to, right? We’ll still love you and be your friends if you don’t want to marry him.”
She didn’t bash him, she didn’t give me a laundry list of his faults to put me on the defensive for my choice or make me defend him. She simply expressed her love for me and let me know that breaking expectation was okay.
Man, I’m really kinda shocked at the unanimous recs to talk to her (or him). Seems around here folk are always telling me to butt out of my kids’ lives!
It is difficult to point out specifics as to what we are noticing. Not saying it is a huge red flag - but just want to make sure my kid is really thinking through such a big decision. I don’t know if in part the guy’s actions just reflect that he came from a different family dynamic than ours. Maybe it is just different - not better or worse.
I posted that her grades slipped slightly in her last semester. She told us that was in part due to what she termed “depression” after one of her 2 roomies (and best friend) dropped out. In the past she let herself get pretty isolated by/with a depressed boyfriend - I want to make sure this isn’t a “rebound” type thing in response to her roommate. Also, with her student teaching coming up, I hope she is over whatever feelings allowed her grades to slip her final semester.
It is tough because on the one hand I want to respect her independence. But on the other, I don’t want her to make mistakes in either her work or personal life that will have long-lasting consequences.
Golly, I wish I could give you the magic words we didn’t have. Our daughter married at 22. Now at 24, she’s divorcing. The red flags were that he was 10 years older than she and had *never *held a full-time job, he was a RPG-geek, he had no car and still lived with Mom, and he had no interest in making anything of himself. We expressed our concerns about these things, but she assured us (as did he) that he wanted to go to school and get a degree, although he never did figure out what he wanted to be when he grew up.
We did our best to help him find a direction and get an education - in 2 years, he got about halfway thru a 2-year degree… :rolleyes: We let him drive our extra vehicle. She finally decided, in her words, that she was tired of raising a 17-y/o.
In the post-mortem, I asked her if there was anything we could have said to keep her from marrying him, and she said no. I had asked them to get pre-marital counseling, but they never quite got around to it - I wonder if that might have made a difference?
Maybe have a family dinner and try to engage them in a discussion about what they’re looking for in the future? It might reassure you, it might open her eyes, or it might be an exercise in futility. But it would be a non-confrontational way to talk about things.
This parenting thing is tough, yanno? Why aren’t our kids all smart and insightful like we are??
I don’t think the red flags you mentioned are necessarily all that red flaggy, but I can see where you are coming from. Thoughts:
1.) “The more you keep bringing it up, the longer I’m going to wait before asking you,” might either be a common joke between them and therefore meaningless, or a sign that he doesn’t actually want to get married (yet). It could be that he’s the one who needs a heart to heart with his parents.
2.) Premarital counseling is a great idea. Recommend it. Maybe offer to pay for it if that’s a sticking point. It’s routine, and may be easier for them to swallow then direct parental meddling. A good counselor has done this dozens of times, far more (hopefully) than any one of us.
3.) Talking to your daughter about this can be done fairly casually. “Honey, it seemed a little weird that time he…”. A frank “are you sure you want to marry this guy” WILL make her defensive. A less direct approach will get you information and get her thinking. Remember, she knows this guy a lot better than you do. The more she talks about him, the clearer your picture of him will be.
4.) Though she’s talking engagement soon, she isn’t talking marriage for a year. A lot can happen in that time. If she’s rebounding like you fear, she may wake up in 5 months with second thoughts. But that is still ages before the wedding.
My first husband was much like that. I do wish I’d gotten these pieces of advice - probably BEFORE I made the commitment.
Its easier to postpone a wedding than to get a divorce. Cheaper, too - even if the wedding has thousands of dollars in deposits out there.
If you think he’ll grow up and make something of himself, wait a bit for him to make progress - preferably before moving in. Progress should be fairly significant - you don’t have your entire life for him to grow up - you do have a few years.
A guy who still lives with his parents should do his own laundry and mow the lawn and basically provide labor in exchange for room and board. Most people old enough to have their own apartment who are living at home have parents old enough that a twenty some year old SHOULD mow their lawn for them if he’s home.
(Which is why I tell my kids - never date a person who doesn’t help their parents around the house, or who can’t keep his own apartment clean. Never date someone who is always broke. These are what we know as SIGNS.)
None of this sounds like Din’s problem - i.e. the son in law doesn’t sound like a child, he might just be a little bit of a jerk. And the way to determine that is to get to know him better. And to encourage your daughter to enjoy the benefits of a longer engagement (or a longer wait before getting engaged). And maybe have a conversation where you say “I don’t know him well, and I hope when I get to know him better, I’ll see how wrong I am - but frankly, he doesn’t always seem to treat you respectfully - and if that is his normal behavior, after 40 years, I think you’ll be miserable.”
(Dins, I suspect given your posting style, your own marital issues, your past over indulgence in alcohol - you might have modeled some “having a husband that is a little bit of a jerk is ok - my Dad is a little bit of a jerk and I love him.” Be self aware - it might be an honest conversation for your wife to have with your daughter. And you know I like you…)
I think a non-threatening suggestion for pre-marital counseling is an excellent idea.
“You know, your mother and I had pre-marital counseling and it was great because…”
or
“You know, your mother and I didn’t have pre-marital counseling and we regretted it because…”
Obviously, it’s not the time to lie, but it might be the time to spin a little. Personally, I think pre-marital counseling is one of the things the RCC is smart about.
Try to get to know the guy one-on-one before you make up your mind about him. All the things you’ve pointed out about him seem fairly tame and not necessarily character flaws, but rather indicators that he’s uncomfortable around you.
Disagree with everyone who said you should have some kind of heart to heart with your daughter. Right now, all you have is some vague dislike for the guy that could very well be a product of bias. Getting married at 22 is pretty early, so how much is your concern is really about this guy as opposed to the whole idea of her marrying so young?
It’s possible she’s rushing into marriage because she’s under the impression it’s wrong to shack up without a ring on her finger. If you want her to know it’s okay to slow down and rationally evaluate things, make sure you’re not giving her any reason to feel pressured about “living in sin”. When she talks about them getting engaged* it makes me think she’s trying to assure you (or herself) that she and her BF aren’t just playing house together like kids. They are doing the grownup thing and getting married.
*“Getting engaged” is a little weird to me. It’s like saying they are engaged to be engaged. Who says that? And they already have a general idea when the wedding will be, even though they are only at the “getting engaged” stage. It really sounds like they (i.e. your daughter) is rushing things. This may explain her BF’s behavior, so cut him some slack.
Perhaps Dinsdale he finds you intolerable, and time spent with you agonizing. Not every two people have to like each oher. All things being equal, its pretty unlikely. After all, whatever resentments and frustrations your daughter may have with you, she has obviously shared with him, which would color his opinion of you, just as your natural inclination to want to protect your daughter from harm would tend to make you judge him more harshly than a random friend or casual boyfriend.
I mean, a man being thought “not good enough” by the father in law is pretty cliche. Its hardly an unusual occurance and doesn’t clearly indicate that there is some long term relationhip crisis. Sometimes parents don’t understand their children all that well, and things the parents may quite reasonbly want for their children (such as a life free from all serious error) is not something the children want for themselves.
I agree with this. If you must have a heart-to-heart with her, keep the conversation focused on whether she’s ready to get married as opposed to your general feelings of dislike for her boyfriend. Even then you’ll need to tread carefully because if she picks up the vibe that you don’t like him, it’s likely to backfire.
Yeah, thats’s possible - but I sure hope not. I realize I am usually an insufferable ass, but when I try really hard, for brief periods , I can be reasonably decent company. And I’ve been on nothing but my best behavior to him - my kid’s prospective life partner.
If he doesn’t like THAT Dinsdale, there’s no chance in hell he’ll revise that opinion as time passes and he gets to know the real one!
It’s been 1.5 years and your daughter is publicly speaking of marriage (I don’t know hwo funny/sarcastic they both are) with the guy and she isn’t out of college and he is working (full-time, average’ish job I presume). I wouldn’t want to be pressured for marriage at only 1.5 years into a relationship with a college student.
I think its great that they are living together BEFORE an engagement because if they both still want to go through with a marriage you should feel decently confident that she is happy.
A huge proportion of women feel (self-applied) pressure to get married shortly after they graduate college. They worry that if they don’t get married ASAP, they will be alone in the world, no other man will come along, and/or won’t get to have kids on whatever timetable they have in their minds. The vast majority of my female friends went through this at age 22.
Here’s some advice I gave my best friend when she was pressuring her reluctant and immature boyfriend to make a commitment:
If you have to pressure a man to marry you, then he is not ready to be married.
She didn’t like hearing it, but it did make her think.
