Daughter's Engagement Coming Up--Opinions On 2 Things

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I don’t wish to waste a lot of your time with all the details. Just would like some honest opinions, I think it would help me prepare for the seemingly inevitable.

Daughter is about to be engaged. She’s worked VERY hard all through college, through being a travelling nurse, and now has a job as a nurse-legal assistant at a big law firm. She still does 12-hour shifts twice a month at local hospitals, and is going to school part time for a Master’s degree (to be a Nurse Practitioner).

The guy she’s about to get engaged to is 5 years older than her (35 yo), in a Master’s program in Instructional Technology, but has never done anything with his BS and has no money, no assests, just cruises thru life.

Anyway. (Need to calm down and post responsibly here)

Latest news tonight, the daughter is telling us that she will have to lend him the money for HER engagement ring. Also, that his mother (with whom he lives) doesn’t feelit is necessary for him to ask her for my hand in marriage. I have “indications” that he might do this via phone.

So here are my questions:

  1. I feel it is fundamentally wrong for the bride-to-be to pay for her own damn engagement ring. I feel that this is something the guy should completely do on his own.
  2. I do not go with telephone conversations about asking for me for my blessing/her hand in marriage. I feel this needs to be a face-to-face meeting, just as I did when I asked my wife’s father for her hand in marriage. ("Telephone calls? We don’t need no stinking telephone calls!)

I’ve left a lot out, but just give me input on whether or not you think I’m being unreasonable. I certainly do not wish to be so, but these things are really frosting my freaking ass.

Don’t be afraid. I’m calmer now that I’ve thrown a chair out the window and I promise that I will just listen, not argue. Thankx.

2

Sorry, shoulda added, I know that formally asking for someone’s hand in marriage is very old-fashioned.

I know they can do this without him asking. I am FINE with him not asking. Just asking, if he does want to do this, am I wrong on insisting on a sit-down?

3

With all due respect there are two main things to realize:

1: They’re adults @ 30 and 35

2: You have little to no coercive power in this scenario

You really need to shut, sit down and remove your nose from the rear end of this scenario and let them decide how them want top handle things between themselves. All you can do is make them hate you if you behave like a jerk.

Come on they’re thirty and thirty five. You’re being silly bordering on obnoxious.

4

Duly noted, and thanks.

5

I would have been insulted beyond belief if Mr. Neville or any member of his family had thought it was necessary or a good idea to ask my father for my hand in marriage. It would have seemed to me as if they didn’t think I was capable of making that decision for myself, or that they thought of me as my father’s property. I wouldn’t care one bit if it were done in person, over the phone, or by a singing telegram.

I would have been a lot less insulted about being asked to lend him money to get the engagement ring. Although, if he had needed to ask that question, I would have gone without an engagement ring. It’s not like an engagement ring is legally required to be engaged or married, and I don’t think an engagement ring is important enough to go into debt for.

6

I do wonder if she’s having second thoughts, though. If Mr. Neville had needed to borrow money from me to buy my engagement ring, I certainly wouldn’t have told my parents that- it’s none of their business. I’m wondering if she isn’t having second thoughts about marrying someone who can’t afford to buy her something that is important to her…

7

Just providing feedback is all…I did promise to stay out of this…

I do understand that basically it is none of our business…but yes, you are correct that she IS having some severe problems with that particular issue. I did not address that part of it(hers), just my own personal feelings about it.

8

I think sometimes these days the couple both put money towards the engagement ring. In my case, MrNinevah was quite happy for me to choose the ring (he wouldn’t have known what to pick otherwise) and we both had an agreement to jointly pay for it.

I know this is a little different in your case, but perhaps your daughter is eager for the ring, and knowing that her potential fiance can’t afford it, is happy to part with her own money for it.

9

OK-yes, they are adults.
but.
I don’t like the engagement ring thing and I don’t like that he still lives with his mother at his age.

IMO, your daughter is going to take on BOTH of them, in an entrenched and most likely dysfunctional relationship.

Nurses tend to want to fix things and people. She is a young nurse and wisdom comes with time (I’m sure she is a good one, just sayin’).
the best thing for you to do is to sit back, try to be supportive but also bring up questions that need answering–like this guy’s career aspirations.

I don’t envy you your position, but they are adults.

While I don’t share your need for a formal asking of hands etc, I DO think that nobody should get married until the family gets to do a onceover on the candidate-on both sides.

10

Hmm. I think lending money for her own engagement ring is a bit weird. It’s one thing if they both put money in, and another thing if they decide to bypass the ring altogether, but an engagement ring is traditionally a gift.

What was the other issue? Oh yes. The asking your permission. Dude, they are way too old to be asking anyone for permission. At this age, they are their own people.

Honestly, best to grin and bear both things lest you drive your daughter away.

11

Sorry to double-post, but I agree with this. This does raise alarm bells. But again, sh’s more than of age and will make her own decisions, and better to not be the one who was mean to him or about him in the first place. As it is, your emotional reaction is going to start closing her ears. Even legitimate warnings will be received with “Oh, you don’t like him anyway, Daddy.” Better to be calm and have her listen, even a little.

12

Another vote for respecting the couple-to-be as adults, but…

If she’s coming to you to discuss things, and asking your opinion, that’s one thing. However – the quickest way to drive a couple together is to try to pull them apart. Criticize much and she’ll feel obligated to defend him.

If she is soliciting your thoughts, try asking her how she feels about that. For example, does she really *need * an engagement ring? If so, why?

The bit about asking for her hand via telephone because that’s what his mother says raises a bit of a red flag for me. Does she think he is able to be independent of his mother? What’s going to be the next thing that Mama wants? What will happen if she wants to move to another city to improve her career, but Mama needs her boy to stay close to home? Does he expect that they will :eek: move in together with Mama? Or will Mama just run his life for him from a distance? In the best of circumstances, of course, Mama will be all too glad to turn him over to a wife and get him out of the house at last!

If he has no assets, no job and no prospects, is your daughter prepared to support him for the rest of her life? Have they discussed children? If they are planning to raise a family, does he expect to be the stay-at-home dad while she returns to a paying job, or is he going to be able to support his offspring?

Again, these are things she should be encouraged to think about, but do NOT rattle off a bunch of questions like an inquisition. Do not be accusatory. You might suggest that these are anxieties that you have. If she becomes defensive, back off, and accept that she is an adult, and that you trust her judgement (even if you really don’t), and will be supportive.

Of course, if she is coming to you for money for her wedding reception, well, there you’ve got some leverage!

13

As a fellow dad, I have to say that if a daughter of mine got serious with some loser that, at 35, still lived with his mother, had no meaningful job and couldn’t afford a down payment on the engagement ring, I’d get the drizzlin’ shits.

My mother (rest in peace) was a highly paid professional woman with a history of making poor choices in her male companions. My sister once made the following comment to her:
“Ma, if you’ve gotta have a gigolo, why not get a young, good looking one with a pleasant personality?”
If all else fails, maybe you could ask your daughter some variation of that question.

I don’t see the “ask for her hand in marriage” so much asking permission as a polite way to inform your potential partner’s parents about what the situation is. His not having the guts to do this in person goes right along with other, more obvious problems that his situation seems to indicate.

Yes, she’s 30 and free to make her own choices. You’re still her father, still love her, and certainly have a right to have your opinions heard.

However it works out, good luck!

14

Yeah, I’m kinda startin to realize this. Best to keep a few steps back.

Seriously, even the snarky comment helped, maybe I am being a butthead about it all, and am re-evaluating some of my stances.

I have always believe that if one asked for advice, one should not only listen to it, but listen to it as a “disinterested observer” and keep one’s personal feelings out of it. And, I am trying really hard to listen with an open mind.

Your comments & suggestions have, really, helped me to focus on some of the more important things.

I can’t thank each and every one of you enough. My question was genuine and I appreciate the time and effort you are spending on my behalf. \

Thanks once again…I’ll surely keep checking this thread, so keep 'em coming.

15

Well, since you asked, here’s another suggestion. If/When he calls to “ask for her hand,” respond by inviting him out for a beer, cuppa coffee, or other manly activity. As in, well, since you’re going to be one of the family hows about we get to know one another. THEN, man to man, you can ask him how he expects to support your daughter in the way in which she deserves. Among other things. Not suggesting you go all “Meet the Fokkers” on him, of course. Also, you just might find things out that would ease your mind a bit. It’s always possible.

16

Verrrry good advice. Thank you.

However, it’s a little more complicated than that, and this is from not wishing to give a 3-page synopsis.

See, WE live in Northwest Florida. THEY live in Houston Texas. I am currently on asignment in Pittsburgh. Not like we’re across the way from one another. However, yes, my thoughts were, that instead of gong home for the weekend, I could fly to Houston and we could meet there. And, actually ,this was more or less what I was thinking of, sorta.

It’s just that I wonder if this is not just too old-fashioned to even bother with, given their ages. Personally, I’d just as soon dispense with it. While I did not make this clear, though, I don’t think the kid is so willing, my fault for trying to keep the backstory to a minimum. But what you said is, indeed, what I’d prefer. Just don’t want to be some fuddy-duddy.

Thank you for the post! Means a lot.

17

I find it odd that engaged couples give “loans” to each other. I mean, does he intend to pay her back, does she expect him to? It seems that by this point it really should be either a gift or simply drawing out of a single pool of money.

18

This also caught my eye. Several of my friends have pooled their money in anticipation of marriage. (These are all couples who are “older” – in their late twenties and early thirties.) In at least one case, I know that joint funds were used to purchase the engagement ring. My friend said, very pragmatically, that it was all going to be “their” money soon anyway, so why not start acting like it?

As to the asking for her hand, it’s an issue of respect. I can’t tell from your posts, but it sounds like your daughter is the one who wants him to ask you for her hand. If that’s the case, then out of respect for her, he ought to do it. If you’re the one who wants it, then, again, out of respect for you, he ought to do it. That’s the bottom line, for me.

When my sister got engaged, she was indifferent about her husband asking dad for her hand. But her husband was adamant, and so he very formally asked both my parents if he could marry her. So there’s your old fuddy-duddy!

Anyway, I think the bottom line is this: if any of this concern is coming from your daughter, encourage a long engagement. Sometimes that does the trick.

19

What you have said does make my “spidey sence” tingle about this guy, But… You can’t say anything. You can’t change her mind on this one. The only thing you can do is drive her away from you. Do what you can to keep your relationship with her solid, so when she needs to get away, she will know you are there.

20

One more thing to keep in mind. Despite your wisdom and experience, it is entirely possible that you could be wrong, and that this guy will be the very best thing that ever happened to your daughter. I speak from experience. My parents were positive that I was hanging out with exactly the wrong type of guy, and that he would make my life miserable. Interestingly, his parents said the same thing – about me. Our children gave us a 40th anniversary party last year. Yeah, our parents were wrong. They had a number of valid points, and had they presented these points non-confrontationally, and worked with us unstead of laying down ultimata (ultimatums?) it is possible we would have waited longer before getting married, and things would have certainly been easier. But with the best of intentions, they were still wrong.