I know that couples handle The Ring in all kinds of ways, from the guy picking one out and surprising the woman to them shopping together, etc. How about this exchange my friend’s sister had with her fiance-to-be:
He: How much do you think I should spend on your engagement ring?
Discussion ensues; they decide on $5000-7000.
He: Well, then I’ll spend $10,000.
Part of us thought this was his way of saying he wants to do more than she expected. But then, is the discussion a way to establish how much of an investment the ring should be? How much she wants to know it’s worth when she walks around with it on?
What does this kind of “negotiation” mean?
Caveat: We know it’s none of our business but I’m just curious on opinions.
Spending that much on a ring is insane. It is also none of her business. He should figure out what she would like and then get her something nice, but affordable (less than $5K). Fight the DeBeers propaganda!
My wife and I had a discussed rings enough that I knew what she wanted, but we never discussed price. Now, the great part is that I didn’t have much money to buy a ring, so I got a loan (for $1000 [isn’t the USA a great place? I went into the bank filled out the paper work and got $1000!]). And we got married soon enough that my wife got to help pay for it! (we have a joint checking account…no, I am NOT a cheap bastard … ) It’s quite a nice ring, I think, 0.5 carats, nice color, small imperfections (what are those called?) that you can only see with a loupe. She’s gotten compliments.
If I had tried to spend $10K on a ring my wife would not have married me.
For some people, spending a lot on the ring is important; for others, it’s not. I think Miss Manners and her colleagues would have some snarky things to say about this “how much do you want me to spend?” discussion, and even more snarky things to say about those figures being repeated to the sister and then to you. But as for the spending amount itself, it’s up to them.
Although you’re asking about the negotiation thing, and the bumping the spending by The Romantic Male Lead here, I know some Dopers will focus on spending. I predict several posts which will put forth the idea that an economic approach to wedding jewelry is some kind of moral high road, and some posts which will suggest that spending little on the rings means a couple "knows the true meaning of love/marriage " but that’s a crock of bull. People who love bling occasionally find real, lasting love too, just like those of us who got married with dimestore rings. Who gives a rip?
She is marrying him, and they will most likely be sharing money/accounts/loans/bills after that. Of course it’s her business. Heck, as DaddyTimesTwo mentions, she may even be helping to pay it off.
Big financial decisions belong to both partners in a couple.
I think his intentions were to be indulgent, and thus romantic.
Personally, that would have driven me crazy, although we should keep in mind that I’m ultra-pragmatic and would expect any conversation about a purchase of that magnitude to be a realistic one, because I’m going to use that information to talk about other things, like the amount of a down payment on a house, or things like that. If my fiance had said that to me, I would have been floored that he obviously wasn’t taking my financial priorities seriously. That’s $3,000 we could have spent on something that is more important! Don’t ask me for my opinion if you don’t, you know, want my opinion.
I don’t think $10,000 is insane if they can afford it, they can spend their money on whatever floats their boat. I would think the same thing about a couple that decided to spend $700 on a ring and then one of them turned around and spent $1,000.
I absolutely disagree. It’s up to him and no one else how much he wants to spend on her engagement ring. Her input, even if requested, should be minimal at best. By her accepting his proposal, she should already be comfortable with his financial decision-making, and she should trust that he will spend money appropriately for her engagement ring.
If she insists that she should be included in the decision, she either a) doesn’t trust his financial judgment, b) is accumulating information to pass judgment (e.g., “he’s cheap!” or “I can’t wait to tell my friends how much my ring cost”), or c) has control issues – any of these should tell both of them that this marriage is going to have ahead some very rocky roads.
I think it is her business. Since most couples are committing to shared finances when they marry. Every dollar spent on a ring is a dollar not spent on the downpayment for the house, not available to replace the nine year old car that makes weird sounds, not available to put in a 401k or buy baby furniture or fund being a SAHM or whatever. Its a major purchase, and I think its worthwhile for a couple planning on spending the rest of their lives together to discuss major purchases.
(Which probably tells you where I come down on the "negotiated $7,000 ring, purchased $10,000 ring - I would have negotiated a $1200 ring).
But Brainiac4 and I do this. I wanted diamond earrings a few years ago for Mothers Day. I preshopped and determined I wanted earrings in the $700 range. I sent him out with a $500 budget (I can’t remember numbers now) and got $800 earrings. He really wanted to buy the $1200 ones, but knew that wouldn’t be appreciated. You learn something about someone being with them for a time. I could say that his not sticking to budget shows a lack of respect, but that isn’t what’s doing it - he needs some room to be generous and spoil me more than I think I deserve.
It sounds like they are either richer than we are or value bling far more than I do or perhaps lack any financial foresight - which is often the case when you are young.
Well, this is one person on the Dope I wouldn’t marry. I hope your wife (if you have one) has a complementary view of marriage. This one isn’t mine.
a) Doesn’t trust financial judgement - no, when two people combine lives, they combine goals and priorities. Its impossible for someone to know all my priorities, and its impossible for me to know someone else’s - even if we are married. Brainiac4 has had times where he’s bought something that we could afford, but has gotten “into trouble” because it means I need to delay something I wanted to buy. Combined finances are about shared goals and communication. Had he said “I’m going to go shoe shopping and buy $600 worth of shoes” I’d have said “Oh, I was hoping to get gutters on this moth - can it wait?” Instead, gutters waited an extra year (and were far less interesting than shoes).
b) Accumluating information - no, other than perhaps “how much should I insure this for and should I leave it sitting on the sink.”
c) Control issues - no - why is compromise control? Why is communication control?
Maybe part of the negotiated amount will be put towards the setting, so he upped the total price based on their talk. She also may want to know because she is looking into insurance and will most likely see the appraisal.
Assuming that he can afford it without serious impact on food, shelter, etc, and further assuming that a $10,000 ring is what he and his eventual finance like:
If he can afford it and that’s what he wants to spend, why not? It’s his business. Just because most of us wouldn’t want or want to buy such a costly ring, and one of us thinks the woman should shut up and be grateful she found a man (at least that seems to be the poster’s implication), doesn’t mean buying such a ring is wrong, immoral, or anything else.
TWO months. And it was probably DeBeer’s that came up with the convention in a desire to sell more expensive diamonds and promote the idea that your wife, and therefore your diamond, is worth at least that much money.
Still, Big Picture matters. Where is this money coming from? What isn’t money available for because it’s sitting in a hunk of carbon?
I agree with Dangerosa. The exact dollar value may not be any of the woman’s business, but it absolutely matters that they discussed 5-7K and then he decides on 10K. Not neccessarily a deal breaker, but certainly a warning sign of different expectations/ priorities, etc.
It’s none of her business, for the simple fact that a mature, intelligent, marriageable guy will not do something so stupid as to put the family in debt before the wedding even takes place. He will not use money that would otherwise have gone for a down payment or for a car that you will both need to get to work. If, for example, you’re both poor grad students and he’s talking about blowing 10K, you don’t marry him because he’s insane. If you know him well, and you know he’s intelligent, and you both know you’ve got hardly any money, then you know he’ll spend a judicious amount or else find another way to propose. I’m all for couples sharing finances and financial info and decisions, but if you can’t trust Bill not to be insane about the ring, well, you may love him so, but I’m not sure you want to hear them wedding bells.
Perhaps he sees his decision to spend more as a magnanimous gesture to show he loves her even more…
Unless their funds are unlimited (and because they discussed price, it’s unlikely that they are) it is an immature decision. In the first place, it negates their mutual decision on how to spend their money. It diminishes his fiance’s input and it lays the foundation for him making final, unilateral, decisions on how they will spend money. It also opens the possibility that he is inclined to overspend.
As an aside I think it’s foolish to equate spending on jewelry with quantity or quality of love, although that seems to be the diamond industry’s subliminal message. Equally foolish is the notion to use a rule of thumb based on income.
How about just sitting down together and talking about it, coming to a mutual agreement? Very mature. Blowing off that decision and spending 50% more? Very immature.
I love my wife’s engagement ring. I designed it, and it was a modest design. It’s unique and represented where we were when we first got married [ we didn’t have 2 pennies to rub together] not almost 10 years later, she has another varried ring. It’s more expensive and was again designed. That ring shows how we have evolved in our marriage. We are well off enough to afford a little more. It’s not an ice skating rink, but it’s nice. And being designed by me it’ll be an heirloom.
