I don’t have a problem with how things went in the OP. It sounds like the guy’s goal in talking to her about the price was not to come to a mutual decision, but to get an idea of what type of ring she was hoping for just so he could be sure he exceeded her expectations. (The fact that I think they’re insane to spend $10k on a ring is a separate issue, and certainly none of my business.)
I think engagement rings are a tricky business, but that there is no wrong way to do it so long as you know your partner well. Some women prefer the idea of the ring as a gift and wouldn’t want to pick it out or get into details of what it cost, although some would be severely disappointed if it was below a certain size/price. For others, it’s very important that it cost a certain amount (whether that’s a lot or a little) and/or be a certain type, and thus would absolutely want to be involved in the decision.
In my case, I knew Mrs. Giraffe would like to pick her ring out, so I proposed ring-free and then we went shopping. The money wasn’t an issue for us, as we both have similar views on what a reasonable amount to spend was, so I just set an upper bound and we looked at rings within that. (She would have had a big problem if I wanted to spend $5k or $10k, though.)
I’m with silenus forget the propaganda. I think; spend what you can reasonably afford without going into serious long term debt, but skip the diamonds, and go with a high quality emerald, ruby, or something even more rare like benitoite (if you can find a decent specimen). Diamonds are a fools game, always have been. They pull some 12 million metric tons of the things out of the ground every year. Not all that special
In as far as whose business it is? Well, it’s the business of both parties if there is signifcant debt involved.
If he’s just buying and paying and can afford it, it’s none of her business, and she should be ashamed to even HAVE the conversation if it’s only about how much the thing will be worth. Of course, if it’s a question of safety and where and how she wears the ring, then it would make sense to follow her guidelines.
One rule of thumb I’ve always found is; the more expensive a ring she asks for, the less she’s likely to be worth.
It’s good practice for the kind of negotiation that married couples do when making a major purchase, or for that matter the kind of negotiations engaged couples and their families do when planning a wedding. It’s a great way for each partner to see what the other is like in these situations.
If the couple are going to be combining finances after they get married, it is absolutely her business how much he spends on the ring.
Now, I don’t think either partner has much business talking about these negotiations with anyone but the other. Whoever blabbed about it did a tacky thing, IMO. It would be likewise tacky for either him or her to brag about the cost of the engagement ring, or in fact to tell anyone other than their insurance agent what the ring cost.
I don’t know- gutters on a moth sound pretty interesting to me.
I have a friend (plenty of money, though he doesn’t advertise the fact) who bought his fiance an expensive ring (I’m guessing around $25k). He told me that if he’d known how much importance her female relatives would attach to this, he’d have spent at least twice as much.
As for negotiating the amount, to me it seems both sensible and a bit odd - takes away the surprise and romance.
I don’t think we can pass judgement on his decision to go over the discussed budget without knowing what was that went into consideration when they agreed on that price. For all we know the discussion could have hinged on whether platinum suits her complexion better than white gold. If the discussion spun around buget expectations for the next year and their budget is somewhat tight, then he did wrong, but by the price they agreed on, I am thinking that saving for next month’s groceries is not their biggest concern. But that’s just my opinion.
It’s really interesting to see all the different opinions on here about rings. Honestly, I think it’s a MYOB situation. I would hope that the couple aren’t going to be in debt because of the purchase, and hopefully he knows her well enough to pick out a ring that suits her personality and her lifestyle. Those are the only considerations, in my opinion. If it’s in their budget and it suits her and she loves it, great!
My fiancee bought a ring for me a few years ago. We were both in college and working only part time. We brought in maybe 300 every paycheck total between us. He was working even less than me, maybe 5 hours a week work study. But he went out on his own for several weeks checking out jewelry stores and eventually bought me a gorgeous ring in white gold with an aquamarine. The stone is both our birthstones, the white gold suits me perfectly, and the setting is very beautiful. It also cost less than $100.
It fit us, and our lifestyle, and no one has asked me what it cost. That’s hardly the point, in my opinion. What’s important is the symbol.
They are called inclusions and a life lesson I have learned (although not the hard way) is that upselling diamonds based on the inclusion rating is a big scam. You can see the color and the cut but only the “bad” diamonds have inclusions that you can see with the naked eye and most of the time, you have to really try. Somebody will probably argue with me on this but we are talking everyday wear here and the hope that the buyer isn’t worried about resale value which isn’t good with diamonds anyway.
There isn’t much difference between a diamond with inclusions you can’t see and one where you really, really can’t see them.
After my then-boyfriend absolutely insisted that he wanted to get me a ring (I was ambivalent, leaning towards no), the arrangement we settled on was that I’d choose the shape and type of setting, and he’d choose the actual stone and thus the amount of money spent. It worked nicely for us. I’ve never wanted to know how much the thing cost, either.
As Eureka said, it’s two months and that is pure 100% Debeers propaganda- as is almost the whole stupid idea of diamond engagement rings.
I say- refuse to support the Debeers monopoly and refuse to help fund genocide. Say NO to any diamonds, and say it is a moral choice. If she is a good choice for you, she’ll back your moral choice 100%.
Of course, that doesn’t mean you can’t then spend a few thou on a nice sapphire or something.
The bolded word is what jumped out at me, and maybe I’m interpreting it differently, but here goes:
My grandfather bought my grandmother several diamonds as “investments” and while I don’t know what he spent, I’m pretty sure it was way more than the $300 they were appraised for years later. In fact, he’d probably have been appalled to hear such a paltry sum. After all, they were diamonds!!!
My point is, I suppose, that a token of love isn’t really an investment and if that’s part of the suitor’s thinking, maybe he needs to think some more. On the other hand, if the word investment above was used as a synonym for spending, then carry on and ignore me…
Are you saying that I’ve fallen for the diamond seller’s argument that the diamond I bought is “bad” because it has inclusions? What would make a diamond “bad” then?
No, just the opposite. I am saying that the difference between say and SI1 and a flawless diamond isn’t something that any normal person can see with the naked eye yet the price hike is steep. There isn’t any real reason anyone should care unless their friends carry a jewelers loupe and some attitude around. I don’t think that resale considerations should be at the top of the list for an engagement ring.
Mrs. Slug’s cheap gold engagement ring cost me $80 (money that I barely had at the time). Ten years later, I could probably spend $25,000 on a new one. But she has never asked. She was actually a lot happier to hear that we had finally extinguished all of our debt.
You know, if I’d had a conversation with my SO about how much we* are spending on something and then he went and spent 2x as much, I’d be mighty pissed.
Deciding together how much to spend on something that can be big budget is good; breaking The Deal is not.
An engagement ring is “we” because even if you don’t get married fast enough for her to help pay for it, well, it’s still money that doesn’t get pooled together and spent in things like the house.
Re. trusting financial judgement. My maternal grandparents spent the first few years of their marriage separated by war, so she had the purse’s strings. Since this didn’t bother him, it was the state of affairs for years. At one point they moved and he got the purse. She took it back when she found out he’d been eating up their savings (which she refers to as “our daughters’ money”) to pay for eating out. So it was about 12 years into their marriage when she realized he could not be trusted to save anything.
This bears repeating. Ebay often sells pre-owned diamond engagement rings, and they sell for a fraction of what the owner must have paid for it.
My friends grandmother often buys expensive jewellery for my friend. The old lady believes she provides her beloved granddaughter that way with “portable currency”. She remembers vividly the Second World War in Indonesia. She used her jewels back then to pay for food to save her kids from starving, for life-saving bribes and for transport out of the warzone. The money in her bank was confiscated by the Japanese; her jewels was all she could take with her on the run, and she is convinced they saved her life and her children’s lives.
But I doubt a gold ring or a diamond would serve the same purpose today.
On the contrary, I think that they would serve the same purpose today, were the same situation to occur.
The value of small, highly concealable forms of wealth like gold and jewelry appears to be in direct proportion to the breakdown of society.
An example: my dad’s good friend was an Iranian professor. He was stuck in Iran by the revolution. In Iran he was quite wealthy - in cash in the bank and in land. The Iran-Iraq war was what finally made him decide to leave at all costs - he had two young boys, he was afraid they would be drafted to certain death in the war. He could not take his wealth in land and cash with him - but with his wife’s jewelry and some gold, they were able to bribe their way out of Iran - now his family is poorer but safer in Canada (and not poorer for long - both those boys have now grown up to become surgeons!).
Fact is, such situations are unlikely if you live in the West.
Thanks for the responses. I guess it’s just a very different way of doing things than how I would, and it’s true it’s none of my business. FTR, he’s apparently a successful agent and they have already bought a house that she is spending (his) money decorating. The whole construct is alien to me!
