I think it is a crock a guy is suppose to spend what he makes for what three months on a stupid piece of glass that women find “pretty”(how nice). This tradition blows especially in todays climate. Why do we have to buy something that valuble to take the chick off the market for us to marry later. Afterall we(guys) are off the market too.
Why don’t they buy us a motorcycle or some power tools or guns to keep us off the market. I mean we are more of valuble commodity than women(since there are more women than men now). So they should have to “buy” our commitment to marry them. Right?
I mean who came up with the three months salary bull in the first place. The girl should be lucky to get us in the first place I mean they could die an old maid right?
Now granted if the dude is pretty ugly and the chick is a looker, than yes he should fork over some bucks to keep her off the market so to speak. But if the guy is goodlooking as a guy as the girl is girl, than I think the girl should buy him something to keep him off the market.
Of course if the guy decides not to marry the girl than he should give back the engagment present to her just like the chick should give the dude back the ring if she changes her mind(and interest on the money IMHO).
Well what do ya’ll think of this new thought of mine? Am I off my rocker or does it make sense? You know the best thing about traditions is breaking’em.
I guess I am just feel horribly sick today and I thought I would rant a little plus I remember making payments on that mineral out the ground I bought for my wife for three years.
Oh one more thing why I am at it. I think the marriage cost should be split by both groom and bride parents(especially since I have two girls)
In my family, we have a tradition to buy our guys watches as an engagement gift. I have the one my grandmother bought for my grandfather during the depression. I always thought the woman should give the man a gift as well, if not an engagement gift, at least a wedding gift.
As far as planning your daughter’s weddings, set a cap on how much you’ll give them. I had a very nice little wedding, including invitations and dress/veil for 2 grand. Mom and I did the food the night before. I should have taken the $ and run off to Vegas, though. (Make sure you put that in the offer).
Funny you should say that, Tequila, since I just bought my honey an antique pocket watch as a moving-in gift. Also, since I make considerably more than he does, I spent more on him than he did on me. And I too would rather have the $$ than a big wedding - if I ever bother to get married, I’ll probably end up saying “I do” in front of an Elvis impersonator.
You, on the other hand, Bill, are clearly trying to start a pissing match with the “old maid” remark, and I ain’t goin’ there. I haven’t been a maid for decades now, having made the leap straight to “broad” immediately after puberty.
I’m with you there, Dude! Actually, I think the whole “Queen For a Day” routine that most brides seem to want to produce, direct, and star in is money that could be MUCH better spent on, say, mutual funds. But that’s just my opinion. However, if they’re gonna blow 30-50K for one day’s festivities, I definitely think the cost should be split by both the bride and groom’s families. (My father has two girls as well, so I guess you can see where *I’m * coming from!)
Is an engagement ring “necessary”? I don’t think so. (And I am a “chick”, too. So much for gender wars.) I think that being “off the market” is a state of mind, anyway, and probably a state of mind that both people in the relationship should reach long before they are engaged. A ring is just a symbol. I guess some people need symbolism more than others.
That “two months’ salary” rule is just something that jewelers came up with anyway (is it three now? really?) It’s arbitrary. No jeweler can force you to spend more than you are able and willing to spend. If she thinks you’re cheap…well, that’s certainly something to discuss before you are married, right?
As far as parents splitting the costs…well, maybe. But, it usually is the bride running the show, after all. My brother-in-law is getting married soon to a woman whose family makes a lot more money than his family–if they were compelled to split the cost of this wedding, it would either bankrupt them or she would have to make do with a whole lot less. (That, and my husband also has four sisters, so they need some sort of break, right?) As it is, they can sit back and enjoy the party, for the most part.
I think the “spending cap” for a wedding is a good idea. I took the money for mine and didn’t even run to Vegas…I got married at the county courthouse. My parents had the sense to make that offer…I get the impression that many parents would be horrified if their children did that. They want that big party as much as anyone else. You don’t get as many gifts, either. Oh, well.
I think you’re looking at it all wrong Bill. With this tradition of the man shelling out 5-10K for a ring come the power to determine the time and conditions of the engagement. A girl can drop hints as much as she wants, but in the end its still the guys decision. That’s powerful. Look back at my 2 previous serious relationships I wonder, would either of those girls propose marriage if they would have had the power to? If so what would have I said?
as for 30-50K weddings, they’re not worth it. I was just at one last month where I witnessed one of the brides work acquaintances scarf down several hundred dollars worth of oysters rockafeller! People can have just about as much fun for 15K as they could for 30K (especially simple folk like my family, who enjoy oysters about as much as they would jeno’s pizza rolls). Use the extra money as part of a down payment on a house.
I’m perfectly willing to buy the guy an engagement present. Hell, I’ll buy him a whole wall of power tools if that will rock his boat!! I’d even let him help plan the wedding–except what he’ll be wearing, what I’ll be wearing, the color scheme, and most of the music. Somebody’s just got to supply the guy. And I wish they’d hurry up about it!
Bill, why would anyone flame you for this? I mean, it seems perfectly reasonable. Why not, let’s say, a pocket watch engraved or something like that? What a nice idea!
And I don’t want a huge honking diamond ring. A nice, antique looking ring-with ANY stone, very simple-hell, even costume is fine.
As far as paying for the wedding-another good idea, too. Depending on who can afford what, and who wants what. When my aunt got married, her husband (now my uncle and widowed-she died when I was 11), his family comes from Italy, he moved here when he was 2. And they wanted a huge, fancy shmancy Godfather style ornate wedding with everything. My grandparents were furious, because THEY were the ones paying for it, and could not nearly afford such a thing. So my aunt and uncle eloped.
Bill feel free not to answer this, but I’m curious. Did you post this here thinking you’d get a big raging gender squabble? Are you disappointed? Did you post this same thought at your other board???
just curious.
I agree with you Bill (I cannot believe I am saying this!)I’m a woman,too. Guess that blows your gender war theory.
Actually, I think expensive engagement rings are silly in the first place. First off, every diamond is covered in blood. Diamonds are responsible for no end of torment in Africa. DeBeers has a huge monopoly. You know the slogan “A diamond is forever”? They made that up so that people would feel guilty about reselling their diamonds. Besides, it’s not even true…unless they are exposed to great heat and pressure in a few million years they’ll turn right back into coal.
But really, it’s silly be expected to spend that much on something that isn’t really going to improve your life. I also think it’s stupid to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a wedding…I mean what is a wedding but a big party? Who spends tens of thousands of dollars so they can dress up, prance around, and show off how much money they’ve spent? And then they expect their parents to foot the bill! If you want to spend a fortune on a party, pay for it yourself!
Special day my ass. It’s all a swindle because the wedding industry knows how to guilt you into spending ungodly amounts of money because it’s “the most important day of your life” and you wouldn’t risk ruining that, would you? They hype it up and make you think that if you don’t buy this or you dont buy that then you are cheating yourself.
The best days of my life are the days when I wake up with sun streaming through the window and someone I love at my side. I don’t need a cent for that. If you put all your hope (and all your money) into one day- you are just looking for disappointment.
That said, I think weddings are wonderful. It is a wonderful and beautiful tradition and I hope to get married myself one day. But damned if I’m gonna spend a years salery on it!
But I have some opinions I want to air on this subject.
Number one, Canada is now mining diamonds, and I’m not sure about this, but I’m hoping that deBeers don’t have their greedy little fingers in this pie. So, look for the Canadian diamonds for all your diamond needs (I think they even have little maple leafs engraved on the bottom - how cool is that?)
Number two, I bought my fiance an engagement gift because I knew he wanted this particular Robert Bateman limited edition print so badly, so it just seemed like the perfect thing to do. I was not obligated to buy anything for him; I did it because I love him and wanted to give him something that makes him happy.
Number three, I don’t know if Opal bought her husband an engagement gift.
Number four, we are planning an inexpensive and not-completely-traditional wedding for ourselves. No one else is paying for it but us, and we are doing things our way. This might be easier for us because we are in our 30’s and are in no danger of being bossed around by the wedding industry (remind me to tell you the story of the old lady in the wedding dress shop who wouldn’t let me look at the bridesmaid dresses for a wedding gown because they were “inappropriate”). This is our day to show the world our intention to spend the rest of our lives together; nothing more, and nothing less.
I bought Math Geek an engagement present-a fountain pen-and I didn’t even get an engagement ring. I wore my wedding ring for the period of our engagement, and gave him his the day before the ceremony. No problems there.
We also paid for slightly less than a third of our wedding, with his parents chipping in for some too.
I was not a diva bride. It was not “my day”, it was a party I threw for my friends and relatives. I was actually angry that everyone made me make all the decisions.
I’ve noticed a pattern with certain WB threads. He thinks he’s got us all figured out and he is going to blow are minds with his wild ideas. Most of the time they are met with a resounding, “eh?”
My response is that it is tradition and no one is being forced to follow it. Nowadays, untraditional seems to be the norm anyway.
When my brother got married the wedding costs were split between the families, although his finace’s family did most of the planning. He also bought a nice, but modest, engagement ring.
Of course, WB thinks that the bit that will cause offense in all this is the idea that a woman should buy an engagement present for the man. And why would that be offensive? Because WB thinks women are too cheap to accept it? Once again, what WB thinks is not as interesting as how he thinks we think.
Wildest Bill, given your relentlessly commercial views on sex, in which a woman’s vagina is a commodity which is to be carefully traded to appropriate investors, I really have to wonder:
I finally figured it out. The incoherent rambling. The self-pitying remarks about money and women. The lack of any concept of grammar. The desire to be as irritating and offensive as possible.
Wildest Bill is actually Archie Bunker. It all makes sense now.
I hope I’m never given a particularly expensive ring, I’d be scared to death to lose it anyway, and knowing it was costly would make the paranoia worse. All I’d want is for it to be silver, since even 24k gold bothers my skin.
An engagement present for a man sounds like a wonderful idea, especially if it’s something thoughtful.
4.(what? I don’t know Opal) Are the girl’s parents actually still expected to pay for the wedding? Admittedly only a couple of my friends have gotten married so far, but they paid for their weddings themselves.
As for being either sex being a valuable comodity, I think I know several people who’d do the world a favor by staying on the market forever…
I’ve noticed a pattern with certain WB threads. He thinks he’s got us all figured out and he is going to blow are minds with his wild ideas. Most of the time they are met with a resounding, “eh?”
**
[/QUOTE]
Yup. I think that’s pretty funny- “let the gender wars begin”, and all he gets are a bunch of women who not only agree with him but for the most part politely ignore the “their lucky to get up, they could die old maids” crap he put in to annoy people.
Poor Bill.
Who are these hoards of women you imagine will rise up in protest for a woman’s inaliable right to a big hunk of compressed carbon and to not be generous in return? If you’re upset about your wife demanding a ring and not giving you anything (if that’s what she did) maybe you should take it up with her. Communication is important in a marriage.
