Well, this one's a classic... (family advice needed)

So, I’m a second-year college student. I turn 20 in a week. I’m having a (pretty standard) battle between my parents and growing up. I’ve always avoided conflict, or tried to, for the most part. Unless I’m pissed off with someone.

My dad is…a character. 76 years old, so he’s up there in his years. We’ve compared him to House and also to Archie Bunker. He loves chatting with whoever he meets, and tries to sweet talk them. He also, as my roommate puts it, has a way of belittling people when he meets them too. Pretty arrogant at times. He cusses like a sailor at my mother and myself, and has for as long as I can remember. Our family life has never been what I’d call…quiet, or healthy. He loves to argue with my mother when he has an audience (read: me, or company over). He complains about how she nags him constantly, etc. For perspective, my half-sister has called him a dry drunk; he was once an alcoholic. FWIW, he never got to raise my two half-sisters, and I believe that this has something to do with how he’s clinging to me. He’s one of those people where if it isn’t done his way, it’s the worst thing in the world.

My mother is a sweet but strict woman–she left her high school teaching job because she couldn’t take the stress of the demonic students anymore. Her blood pressure was sky high. She’s in her sixties now She shouldn’t have to put up with the bullshit that she has for the last three decades–from my father, as well as students. She’s given up defending herself when my father makes his rude, crass comments about her figure. He always boasts how he “rides 6 miles on a bike every day.” He’s still a good deal overweight, mind you. But then has the nerve to yell at her and tell her to “get off her fat ass.” She’s overweight too. But she desperately tries to be a kind person, and deserves so much better than my father.

I’ve been with my boyfriend for nearly 2.5 years now. We’ve discussed marriage. I asked if there was any chance of making the engagement official sometime soon. He’s said that he doesn’t want to while I’m “trapped” with my parents. We’re long-distance, so it makes breaks difficult. I feel obligated to be two places at once. My mother understands that I enjoy spending time with her and my father, but also that I need to see my boyfriend at times too. My father thinks that I should not be spending time with anyone but my parents. My father’s attitude has earned him a strong level of dislike with my boyfriend. He can barely stand to be in the same house.

(Funny that when I am home, nothing happens. My half-sister has mentioned this, so I’m not just imagining it.)

However, my boyfriend is still very reluctant to make the engagement official while I’m still financially dependent on my parents. Part of me can understand this. My father has a horrible temper. My boyfriend has said he doesn’t want our life together to start out with these problems. That I can understand. But I know I need to have time with my parents at some points. I’m very concerned that they’re up there in age, and I’m scared that I don’t have much time left; their health issues do not ease my mind. I also know I’m at that stage where I need to start making my own decisions about the relationships and directions my life will take on. I hate feeling like I’m in a tug-of-war here.

But the good news is, I feel much better after writing all this down. Thanks for reading/listening/any advice :slight_smile:

Not sure how to sugar coat this, so I won’t: you have no business getting married while you’re still financially dependent on your parents. That goes even if your boyfriend makes enough to support you.

You really also have no business getting married at 20, but that’s more my opinion than Words to Live By.

You’re going to be a completely different person by the time you graduate college (moreso if you’re still living with your parents, which I gather from your post). That’s the person your boyfriend should be thinking about marrying, not the one you are now.

I’m 29. I’ve been to 34 weddings in the last 9 years. I’m married. Let it ride for a couple of years, trust me.

Being financially dependent on your parents limits your options - and I imagine your father likes it that way. Are they paying for you to attend school? Do you live on campus? Do you work at all?

Do not push your boyfriend into “making it official”. If he’s not ready to take that step, for whatever reason, he’s not ready. Pushing him is not going to make him ready. If it’s important enough to you to lose him over it, pushing him is a good way to do that.

If your parents are supporting you through school, you have two options. Deal with the way things are for two more years, or get a job and put yourself through school.

I agree with ** Really Not All That Bright** on the marriage issue. You’ve got plenty of time; there’s no reason to get married when you’re 20. Even if he is the love of your life. If he really is, he’ll be the love of your life in a few more years when it makes more sense to tie the knot.

I also wanted to add one comment on the parent thing - I don’t know you, or your parents, but I do want to say that in my case at least, as I grew older, I understood my parents (and their bickering) a lot more. It used to drive me nuts in my late teens/early 20s, and I vowed to never be like them. I used to think my Dad was horrible to my mother. Now, 20 years later, I see that they have their faults, my Dad is not the most openly emotional guy around, but they honestly love each other and bickering can sometimes be just fine in a relationship. It’s hard to describe, but there’s a certain point a relationship gets to where bickering is really OK.

Now, that said, there’s a fine line between healthy disagreement/bickering and emotional abuse, and I don’t know where your parents fall, but I just wanted to share that what I found intolerable in my 20s makes a lot more sense now that I have more real-world relationship experience.

I currently live on campus, yes. I work two jobs during the semester. I also worked two jobs this past summer. The payments to the university have come straight from my accounts.

And I agree with the whole waiting to get married until after we graduate thing, wholeheartedly–I’m definitely not saying “oh, let’s get married next summer.”

I think your boyfriend is being smart. IMHO he wants to see you establish yourself as an independent adult before moving ahead. Likely he sees himself in that light and feels you would be a better fit for him if you were too. Right now you are a dependent, he probably doesn’t want you to just go from being your parent’s dependent to being his dependent.

Just from your post you give the impression of being very much your parent’s child. By being out on your own you would hopefully reset this dynamics in a positive way. Most all children grow up and move away sometime. Parents adjust. And everyone learns to be with each other when they can.

HOWEVER, by saying this I am not in any way shape or form advocating that you immediately move out in order to be more of what your boyfriend wants. That is something you should only do when you are ready, and it works out for you. I’m simply offering an impression of what might be in your boyfriend’s mind.

Oh, and I seriously doubt your father thinks you should only be spending time with them. He just sounds like he’s very used to saying whatever pops into his head, and he truly does not have a clue how it affects others. And since there is probably no one in his life keeping him in line he has developed popping off as a bad habit. Lots of guys end up like this.

What they said.

Oh, and your father sounds like my father-in-law, but somewhat nicer. It sounds like your dad probably didn’t beat you, for instance, but probably did/does emotionally abuse you. The my-way-or-the-highway, for instance; my FIL did that to all his kids and tried to force them into the professions he wanted them to take, no matter how ill-suited they were. Dealing with them in relation to their dad can be like listening to a Stockholm Syndrome support group.

I married my husband knowing I’d have to deal with his family too. I loathe his father. My husband says, “I love him, but I don’t like him.” He also truly understands my point of view. If you stay with this boyfriend - or frankly, probably have any man in your life while your father is around - you’re going to have to not only put up with that guy’s feelings, but be supportive of him, and stand up for him if your dad gives him shit. He doesn’t have to love your father, because that’s not his father, and he didn’t grow up with any societal and familial programming to try to force a certain level of respect or caring for the guy.

Oh, and when it became obvious that my then-boyfriend and I weren’t going to break up just because he didn’t like me, my FIL then kept saying he might die before we ever got around to marrying so why didn’t we hurry up already. He’s still alive and bitching about a dozen years after our marriage, so don’t take any comments about aging as necessarily the gospel truth.

You are too young to think about marriage. Education and financial independence come first. You boyfriend is wise to resist marriage for now. You may be trying to escape your household by marrying him, whether you understand this or not. It would be more a marriage of equals when you are self-sufficient and making your own free decisions.

I agree your mother is under your fathers thumb so to speak. Perhaps she feels comfortable in that position. Don’t try to mimic her position by choosing a similar mate to your father.

You father is quite old as a parent of a 20 year old. Chances are nil that he will change. At the same time I believe age deserves some respect, or at least understanding that he won’t change. So deal with it and try not to get emotionally involved. Moving out when you can will help that. My parents were old when I was born and have long passed away. Enjoy both of them while you can. (I moved out when I was 18, but I had a full time job as well as school.)

The dynamics of the situation can change greatly when you do marry. Feisty parents sometimes become more complacent when reality sets in that they can’t control you any more. Either way, don’t live for your parents. You can be independent now before you move out.

Stick to your studies and avoid the drama.

Was I the only one who noticed that it doesn’t seem that the boyfriend is the one doing much of the marriage talk? I have a hunch that he isn’t quite ruing the presence of any obstacles to getting hitched at what is, I quite agree, far too young an age. Especially if this relationship is being carried on little more than telephonically/internetically.

Anyway, after three decades you can be pretty certain that neither of your parents are going to change very fundamentally.

If you live on campus and pay your own tuition, I’m not sure why you consider yourself financially dependent on your parents. Unless it liberates you from having to make certain decisions—like saying Au Revoir to your high-school sweetheart who moved away.

Here’s the thing: My boyfriend asked me to marry him about a year and nine months ago. We still talk about our future life together, like once we’re done with school.

Ferret Herder–do you have any advice for dealing with not getting emotionally involved? It’s something I’ve struggled with always. I don’t have very good “in-the-moment” coping strategies when he starts on one of his “rants.” Even if you say “Yeah,” to everything he says, he’ll quiz you more. Or if you say “No,” he just gets more riled up. Your husband’s situation certainly rings true to mine.

I guess the core of the advice I’m asking for here is: How do we, as a couple, cope and deal with this attitude that we get from him? I’m trying to stand up for my boyfriend in the face of what my father does say to him, but it’s tricky to learn.

I think the boyfriend is right about not being financially dependent on parents, but it doesn’t mean you can’t get married after graduation. I know several couples who have.

So explain to him that your parents are still Mom & Dad, even when they’re nuts, and then the two of you can work out a financial plan about post-grad. Do not make this about him versus parents. (Or let him do that.)

Good luck. :slight_smile:

edit: Why is everyone acting like the OP is trying to con her boyfriend into marriage? It doesn’t sound that way to me. They both seem pretty level-headed.

It’ll take time. I suggest dealing with free/cheap college counselors while you have access to them, and try to look into some books on the subject too. It really depends on what your dad is like and how he reacts. What works for me may provoke a screaming fit in your case.

I’m in a different position in that I’m not the kid, I’m the inlaw. My FIL doesn’t know how to react when someone doesn’t take his bullshit - he’s used to his kids cowering, or his subordinates on the job (prior to his retirement) yes-sir’ing him. When it’s equals, he’s out of luck eventually if he can’t placate people well enough - most of his friends ended up not talking to him any longer, or only doing so probably to keep an eye on his wife and make sure she was OK.

After too much time spent WTFing and wondering if I wanted to get involved with that craziness (he’s bipolar and not medicated, because he hates not having the manic highs and his lows aren’t all that bad - he’s probably got a lot of narcissism too), I finally figured out that for him, he can’t figure out how to deal with someone who can put up an icy response and refuse to take his bait, plus just walking away when he gets too much. If it takes just staring at him more or less impassively, or incredulously, when he goes on a rant, then I do it. Also, answers that don’t help him, don’t give him anything to work off of, stuff like, “That’s not it at all,” said simply and quietly, but with no further explanation and walking away if you have to.

It helps a lot that he doesn’t “get” me. Their family is expected to be outgoing and gregarious at all times, and I’m an introvert who is warm with people I like. Too much noise and chaos will tire me out after a while. So it seemed like every time I didn’t react in the ways he expected, it threw him for a loop.

If I were you, I’d carefully start expanding my independence. You said you think your dad expects you to spend all your time with them. You need to start throwing him for a loop, and simply state, as if there is nothing odd about it and in the same tone as talking about class or work, that you will be doing (fill in the blank) activity and will be away. If your dad objects somewhat or expresses surprise/annoyance/anger, don’t shrink back or rise to meet it. Just state, simply, that you will be doing this. Explain it more softly if you have to.

That’s a good tactic, actually - if he raises his voice, speak softer but clearly and firmly, and don’t let him steamroll you. Keep talking.

You might need to introduce stuff like this slowly, to practice. Think of phrases that don’t invite further debate. “Thank you for the suggestion.” “I’ll consider it.” “I need to look into this further.” “That’s interesting.”

This will be tougher for you. You have this emotional entanglement of family, of father and daughter. That’s why I’m suggesting seeing counselors to learn coping skills, or reading books on the topic.

Kemanchi, by Spanish standards and if he asked and you said “yes”, you’re already “prometidos” (lit. promised [to each other]) - what you haven’t done, and I agree that it shouldn’t be done until you’ve finished college and perhaps until you’ve been financially independent for at least one year, is “set the date” (that year of waiting gives you time to figure out more clearly what you want in terms of career and what you’re like in terms of finances, house, etc).

My brother broke the end of that rule because the other option would have been to wait several more years and to support his still-fiancée while not married and not living together; as he put it, “if I’m going to support you, I want to be supporting my wife, not my novia who lives with her parents”. (The Spanish word covers every stage from ‘we just started going steady’ to ‘bridal pictures’) When he told us about it, he primly pointed out that he’d refrained from calling his future father in law a “bossy, down-putting, can’t fuck you for real so he’ll fuck you figuratively, son of a syphilitic bitch”.

My experience with people similar to your Dad is that the best response is to grow a thick shell - when he’s shooting crap within your sight (adressed at you or at others), let it slide; file it away for later review. You can cry, yell, go through whole boxes of Kleenex… when he is not around. He’s a bully, bullies hate a target who won’t show holes. Don’t say “yeah”, say nothing if you can and something completely unrelated if “nothing” is not possible: “you’ve got such a fat ass, you’re starting to look like your whale of a mother” “isn’t it nice outside today? Let’s go for a walk!”

Your boyfriend proposed after dating less than a year? When you were 18? Oh, I remember those days. And I remember that ex-husband. And I really wish I would have been smacked upside the head with a trout and told to hold my horses.

You have TIME. If you are secure in your boyfriend’s affection and his desire to get married, there is no reason to make an engagement official. Doing so will cause your father pain, your mother pain, and seems to be something your boyfriend isn’t quite ready for - regardless of how ready for it he was a year and nine months ago.

As for your father, he is 76 years old. While you have time, he probably doesn’t. You aren’t going to change him, he very likely doesn’t have much time left - your decision on how you want to spend that time. Frankly, I think Dad has a point - he’s elderly, each vacation you spend with him may be the last. It is reasonable he wants to spend that time with YOU.

76 is old, but people live well into their 80s and 90s. He could live another 15 or 20 years. It sounds like you think she should be willing to wait until her early 30s to start her life.

What happens when she’s 33 (or even 38!) and he still wants to spend that time with her? When does her life become hers and not her dad’s?

(This is a tender subject - after my mother had bypass surgery, my grandfather tried to guilt me into moving back there because at some time in the next 20 years, my mother might die.)

Twenty? In college? You need to live your life a bit (7-8 years or so) before you pick someone to spend the rest of your life with. There are plenty of guys out there. Don’t try and settle down now. Have fun. Date around. Finish college, get a job, live on your own, meet lots of different people…then when you are in your late 20’s start looking for that special someone. If it happens to be the guy you’re with right now…so be it.

Yes, in my opinion young men of a romantic disposition are genetically programmed to blurt out stuff like that, misinterpreting the first flush of infatuation/love as an eternal thing. At the same age I asked a girl on our third date. She said yes but thank goodness both of us silently backed out of it.

To the OP, chill, take your time. I know a year seems like an eternity for you now, but it won’t always. Don’t even think about marriage until you’re about 28. I know you’re a girl, but listen to Father and Son by Cat Stevens and reverse the gender.

To me the most worrying thing you’ve written is this:

A friend of mine ‘wasted’ nearly 20 years of his life on an aged father. What my friend did was a noble thing indeed, but it all-but ruined his adult life - he has three siblings who could have helped out too but he didn’t feel able to ask them. Parents all over the world get old while their children spread their wings and leave the nest. It’s what humans do, unless they’re from exceptionally traditional cultures. I’m not saying abandon them - and if they’re incapacitated then go ahead and step in - but I promise they’ll do just fine for the next few years without your help.

My mother used to harp a lot on “you owe me your life!”

At one point I realized that doesn’t mean she’s allowed to ask for it back with interest, you know? It’s a gift, not a mortgage. Don’t let your father mortgage your life.

Yes, but 76 and 20 are very different than 80 and 24. Or 86 and 30. I don’t think her life should get “put on hold” but it CAN slow down a bit. And Dad’s demands, given his age, are understandable. They don’t need to be completely capitulated to, but they should be understood and a compromise needs to be reached. That may be the compromise college students often reach “we spend the Christmas holidays with our families, and on the 26th or 27th, get out of there and spend the rest of the vacation with each other.”

Another person here who really really wishes you would wait until you are in your late twenties to get married. Sure, some people make it work, but lots more don’t, and those are the failed first marriages people talk about.

Since that probably won’t happen, I recommend you finish school and live on your own at least a year, as has been recommended, before marriage.

20 to get married??? Sigh.