So everything is going good at work. The day is flying by, and there really isn’t that much work to be done. The woman that trained me 7-8 months ago walks by and gives me some work to do. Sweet, boredom relieved.
I say “thank ya ma’am” very quickly and casually. She’s usually very nice, but she immediately transforms into a demoness from the deepest pit of hell and says: “Please don’t call me ma’am. Thanks.”
What gives? I’ve never had someone get so offended by me calling them that. I’m probably 20 years her junior, and I obviously know it’s an age thing, but my inquiry still stands. I meant no offense to her and (to me) it’s the same as calling her by her first name. I’m not sure that I see the difference between ma’am and sir, quite frankly. If anything, I used it out of respect for someone older than me. Apparently, it is not perceived as such. Either way, there was no real need for the snapping.
If she was really rude about it (your description says yes, the words quoted say no), I’d say that’s inappropriate. But yeah, for many women, someone calling them “Ma’am” is about like someone calling a man, “Oldtimer” or something. I know it felt a little disheartening the first time someone used “Ma’am” instead of “Miss” on me. But it’s not enough for me to comment on.
I mean, fire didn’t spew from every orifice on her head or anything, but it was stated aggressively (for her standards, anyway).
I call girls my own age ma’am if I’m referring to them quickly, usually in thanks (hence, “thank ya ma’am”). I’m just not sure I understand her getting so upset over it.
I think some people who are sensitive about their age will object to being called ma’am or sir, but there’s really no reason to be upset about it. Sure, don’t call her ma’am anymore, but feel free to keep using it, since it is generally respectful.
Personally, I’m not a fan of either because, while it is a sign of respect, it’s also a sign of deferal, and I prefer to treat everyone as an equal. Hell, I don’t even call my my military bosses sir. So, I don’t use it and I prefer others not use it in reference to me, but it’s hardly something worth getting upset over.
Oh I won’t be dropping that one to her anytime soon. My problem is that it’s a very solidified habit. I’ll just have to watch my tongue, I suppose.
Somehow, I normally use it as neither, really. It’s mostly used to maintain a casual sense of conversation. Obviously, her perception of that is different.
In my experience it is a regional thing.
My Mama would slap me up the side of the head if I didn’t call women “ma’am”. Northern women seem to particularly resent it.
Being insulted by being called “ma’am” is a regional thing. I grew up in Ohio, and if you call any woman under 50 “ma’am,” you’d get the reaction you got. It’s the same thing as implying you rank that woman right up there with your grandmother. It makes people feel old.
Now I live in the Deep South, and here, it’s a sign of respect. It’s just basic polite manners. You call an 18-year-old girl “ma’am” or your grandmother, or your same-age BFF or any woman. All men are sir, all women are ma’am and that’s just the way it is down here. I will add that, if an adult woman is unmarried (or possibly under 30; the rules appear fuzzy on this one and nobody gave me a copy of The Yankee’s Guide to Southern Culture Handbook when I moved down here), it is acceptable to call her by “Miss Firstname.” Young children will do this and people teach their kids to call me “Miss Dogzilla.” Or Ma’am. I’m in Rome, so I do as the Romans do…
I’ve run into problems when I’ve forgotten that this is one of those cultural things that people take totally differently depending on where you are. So I’ve been visiting in Ohio, my sister asks me a question and I respond with, “Yes, ma’am, I got your email.” My sister will look at me like I have horns growing out of my head, “Ma’am? What the fuck, am I your grandmother now?” “No, we didn’t even call Gramma ‘ma’am’, I’ve just been living in the South too long. Sorry. Didn’t mean to imply you were a dowdy old maid or anything.”
Hm. I occasionally call people “ma’am” or “sir” completely regardless of their rank or age. I tend to add it when I answer a yes or no question in order to make a plain “yes” or “no” sound less curt. I never even considered the possibility that someone might find it rude.
This is pretty much exactly what I do as well. It seems more “friendly,” I guess.
Dogzilla, I think you’re right. I imagine it would be a sign of respect in the South for sure. I live in PA, and apparently we’re part of the same “offended” region.
Yep, it’s definitely a regional thing. I grew up on Long Island, and I live in Texas now. If you use it in NY, it’s pretty much like saying “Hello Ms. Oldey Olderson McOld.” In Texas, it’s pretty much just how you politely address people and a sign of good breeding. “Yes sir, no sir. Yes ma’am, no ma’am.”
That being said, even though I’m a transplant I really like both words. They’re not, as far as I’m able to puzzle out, a sign of subservience here, but of respect (and it’s generally appreciated). I generally address fast food cashiers and secretaries as “ma’am” (if they’re women, naturally), and it’s not because I’m signaling the girl at CVS that I’m her inferior.
My family never used anything like that either, but like I said, I grew up north of the Mason-Dixon line, and then emigrated when I was 22. I’m now 41 and yes, I’m still an outsider and still counted as a “damn Yankee.” (Yankees are people who live north of the M-D line. Damn Yankees are people who move south of the M-D line and stay there.)
Again, “Miss Dogzilla” is viewed as weird and overly formal up north. I think I would actually be insulted if a southern kid ever just called me Dogzilla. I’d probably ask 'em if their mama didn’t teach 'em any better than that. I wouldn’t bat an eye if a northern kid called me by my first name. I know their mamas don’t teach 'em any better.
We try to teach our children to say “ma’am” and “sir” to all grownups. A few years ago my wife was a high school teacher and had a student teacher trainee join her class for a few months. He was only about 10 years younger than she was but he was a real polite southerner and always called her “ma’am” even in casual situations.
This is one of those small, very minor, things that makes customer service jobs a PITA. I mean…it feels really weird to call a woman clearly in her 40’s or 50’s miss, but she might get upset if I call her ma’am…I’ve tried to use “madam,” even though it’s essentially the same word, though it sounds “fancier,” and it’s slightly better, but it still upsets some women. I mean, I think we call all agree those women need to get the fuck over themselves, ma’am doesn’t automatically imply age. Obviously if a woman asks me not to call her that I won’t, but I’d like it if they all stopped caring in the first place.
I’ll never forget how thrilled I was when, at about the age of 7, the serving lady at the Blue Boar Cafeteria asked, “Can I help you, ma’am?” I rated a “MA’AM!!” I was so excited. No more little miss me! I was a Ma’am!
But I’m from the mid-South; it’s not as ‘required’ here as it is other places, but it’s definitely not an insult to be ma’am’ed.
