Loyal to those loyal to me ?

[SRB1988]

Hi,
my name is Chris and I live far away from America , so my english isn´t good at all . Sorry for that!

The reason why I registered in this board is, that I´ve got a question to people, who speak english perfectly.

I´m going to get a tattoo in a few weeks. It´s " Loyal to those loyal to me".

I think these are true and great words, so I´m sure I want it.

Now my question is:
Is this sentense even gramaticaly correct? Till now, I always thought it´s ,,Loyal to those WHO ARE loyal to me"
It would be great, if you could help me!
Thanks a lot guys!

[Leaffan]

Well, it's a fragment of a sentence. Technically you would need a subject in there too.

"I am loyal to those who are loyal to me" would be grammatically correct.

"Loyal to those loyal to me" is fine as a message.

[Omar Little]

I assume you are getting the tattoo done in english.

The phrase you have sounds grammatically correct to me.

Do you really want such a long phrase? Why not just have the word: Loyalty

Or do the inverse: "Screw me and I'll screw you." Because that's the subtle message you are making by your original phrase. Don't be subtle, be direct.

[SRB1988]

Thanks a lot!

@ Omar For me it´s not like "Screw me or I´ll screw you"

It´s like "I´m loyal to the people that love me and who are loyal to me"

Or do you think, for this meaning, it would be definitly the wrong sentense?

[Omar Little]

If it's like: "I'm loyal to the people that love me and are loyal to me", what about the people that are disloyal to you? How do you treat them? Would you still be loyal to them if they needed it? Or would you be disloyal to them as they had been to you?

[SRB1988]

I don´t need a girlfriend, who´s cheating on me and I don´t need friends ,who actually don´t want to be my friends, BUT I would not screw them...I´m a nice person

But if "Loyal to those loyal to me" in the english language means " Screw me and I´ll screw you" , then I´m not sure, if its the best idea.
So does it have this meaning or did you just understand it wrong?

Thanks for your answers!

[jayjay]

Originally Posted by SRB1988

I don´t need a girlfriend, who´s cheating on me and I don´t need friends ,who actually don´t want to be my friends, BUT I would not screw them...I´m a nice person

But if "Loyal to those loyal to me" in the english language means " Screw me and I´ll screw you" , then I´m not sure, if its the best idea.
So does it have this meaning or did you just understand it wrong?

Thanks for your answers!

You're edging into the area of connotation, here, which can be tricky even for people who speak English natively. There IS kind of a hint of "Screw me and I'll screw you back" in "Loyal to those loyal to me", but it's not overt. As a native speaker of English, I would tend to derive that subtext from the phrase, though it doesn't explicitly mean that.

It's VERY difficult to really explain to someone who doesn't share the mindset of having been soaked in English since birth, though. It's not that the words actually mean the negative phrasing, but it's the undercurrent they carry.

If I were to try not to convey that (and I think I would try not to convey that...it could be taken as a challenge, depending on the kind of places you tend to spend time in), I would just get one that said "Loyalty".

[Omar Little]

I would also suggest just "Loyalty". That signifies that you are a loyal person and that the trait is important to you . Don't put the qualifier that you will only be loyal to those that are loyal to you.

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

I would also suggest just "Loyalty". That signifies that you are a loyal person and that the trait is important to you . Don't put the qualifier that you will only be loyal to those that are loyal to you.

.... who are loyal to you. No?

[SRB1988]

THANK YOU !

You are a great help!
Loyalty is a very good idea, too , but i want to advert to my family and my friends, the people who are loyal to me. People who aren´t can´t be called real friends, so I´d also like the tattoo, if some of them would be disloyal, one day.

But like I said, I´d definitly not screw or hurt them.

If my gildfriend is disloyal...then it´s ok for me, cause then she´s not the right one for me anyway...I´ll always be loyal to people ,who I love, so it won´t be a wrong decision to get this on my arm.

[SRB1988]

Loyalty is very general....in my opinion.

[jackdavinci]

You could even go with

LOYAL
to the
LOYAL

or change it up

loyal to the faithful

or

faithful to the loyal

[Capitaine Zombie]

Originally Posted by SRB1988

I don´t need a girlfriend, who´s cheating on me and I don´t need friends ,who actually don´t want to be my friends, BUT I would not screw them...I´m a nice person

But if "Loyal to those loyal to me" in the english language means " Screw me and I´ll screw you" , then I´m not sure, if its the best idea.
So does it have this meaning or did you just understand it wrong?

Thanks for your answers!

Originally Posted by Omar Little

Do you really want such a long phrase?
Or do the inverse: "Screw me and I'll screw you." Because that's the subtle message you are making by your original phrase. Don't be subtle, be direct.

Frankly, do as Omar said, and dont go for too subtle a message, just go for:
"Screw me".
You're gonna get tons of friends and no cheating girlfriend, I assure you.

[Acsenray]

The sentence is grammatically correct, but sounds rather mundane in English. Why not have it done in Latin?

[Ferret Herder]

Avoid the suggestions talking about "screwing" - it's vulgar in English, and sounds hostile, too.

Your original wording is fine. Adding "who are" would make it more grammatically correct, but also more wordy and not as suited for a tattoo. Adding more words may just increase the chance of messing up the tattoo, especially if the tattoo artist does not know English.

[SRB1988]

Well, "Loyal to the faithful" is great !
Unfortunatly, my dictionary says " the faithful" is only related to religious people, not to the people that are loyal to you... or is it a verb in this context?

[Gary T]

I don't see any problem with "Loyal to those loyal to me". The complete sentence would be "I am loyal to those who are loyal to me," but you don't need the complete sentence. The "I am" and the "who are" will be understood and don't need to be stated. The phrase "Loyal to those loyal to me" actually has more impact because it's shorter than the sentence, and also is preferable to the sentence for a tattoo because it's shorter.

I don't get the "Screw me and I'll screw you" thought. "Loyal to those loyal to me" suggests you might not be loyal to those who are not loyal to you, but there is a big difference between not being loyal and being vengeful. Reading "screw me and I'll screw you" into it entails making a huge assumption and makes no sense to me.

"Loyalty" is fine if that's what you want, but I don't believe that's what you want. Again, there is quite a difference between the broad concept of loyalty and the specific statement that you reciprocate loyalty.

So to answer your question, "Loyal to those loyal to me" is grammatically correct, and I think it accurately states what you want to say. I specifically think it does NOT imply "screw me and I'll screw you." Go for it.

[Gary T]

Originally Posted by SRB1988

Well, "Loyal to the faithful" is great !
Unfortunatly, my dictionary says " the faithful" is only related to religious people, not to the people that are loyal to you... or is it a verb in this context?

It's not a verb, it's an adjective -- or in this case an adjective noun, standing for "faithful people." While "faithful" commonly refers to religious faith, it can also be a synonym for "loyal" with no religious meaning. Still, it's not exactly the same as "loyal," and in my opinion the message is clearer and stronger using "loyal" twice, and gets muddied up a bit using "faithful."

[jackdavinci]

Originally Posted by SRB1988

Well, "Loyal to the faithful" is great !
Unfortunatly, my dictionary says " the faithful" is only related to religious people, not to the people that are loyal to you... or is it a verb in this context?

faithful also means to be true to someone, for example it can refer to not cheating on your wife, or to looking out for your fellow troops, hence the military slogan "always faithful"

[Elendil's Heir]

You might also consider the Roman general Sulla's epitaph, since popularized by the U.S. Marines: "No better friend, no worse enemy."

[SRB1988]

Hahaha, a verb? Sorry I wasn´t concentrated, I guess. Of cause it´s a noun or an adjective

Well , like I said my favorite tattoo would be " Loyal to those loyal to me" .
Some people understand it as " S**** me and I s**** you" , but what I exactly wanted to know was if it has this exact meaning in the english language or not and it seems like it doesn´t.

For me it´s not important, what strange people think. For me it´s important to know the meaning and to behave like the tattoo says.

Loyalty or loyal to the faithful are great ideas , too, no question!

[postcards]

Whatever you decide, just be sure the artist spells everything properly. And if you decide to use Old English as the font, for heaven's sake, be sure it's in upper AND lower case!

[Gary T]

Originally Posted by SRB1988

I´m going to get a tattoo in a few weeks. It´s " Loyal to those loyal to me".

I think these are true and great words, so I´m sure I want it.

Originally Posted by SRB1988

...For me it´s not like "Screw me or I´ll screw you"

It´s like "I´m loyal to the people that love me and who are loyal to me"

Originally Posted by SRB1988

I don´t need a girlfriend, who´s cheating on me and I don´t need friends ,who actually don´t want to be my friends, BUT I would not screw them...I´m a nice person

Originally Posted by SRB1988

Loyalty is a very good idea, too , but i want to advert to my family and my friends, the people who are loyal to me. People who aren´t can´t be called real friends, so I´d also like the tattoo, if some of them would be disloyal, one day.

But like I said, I´d definitly not screw or hurt them.
...I´ll always be loyal to people ,who I love, so it won´t be a wrong decision to get this on my arm.

May I humbly suggest that the OP is NOT interested in revenge or screwing people or enemies, and simply wants to make a positive statement about being loyal to those who deserve his loyalty?

[Great Antibob]

This is a complicated enough message that it wouldn't really work for a tattoo in English. A shorter message loses the nuance. And a longer message makes it a cumbersome tattoo.

The closest thing I've ever seen is the Marines' "Semper Fi", but that's definitely an American thing more than a general English-speaker thing.

[SRB1988]

Exactly, Gary

[Mangetout]

That may be, but 'loyal to those loyal to men can easily be interpreted as having self-interest as the motive, which may not be the intended effect

[SRB1988]

That´s possible, but I know the meaning and the people who I´m loyal to, will be know it soon, too.
I don´t live in a country where everybody´s mother language is english, so most people would ask, before they belive it´s something negative or self-interested.
I bet most of them would ask me, if this is correct english like I asked you.

Even if I lived in England or America, not everybody would misunderstand the message, so I have a good feeling ,actually...

[Gary T]

Chris, I have sent you a private message here on the Dope.

[Chessic Sense]

I like your phrase the way it is. It makes sense in English, it's concise, and it doesn't carry the negative connotation that others seem to think it does. It's a perfectly fine tattoo. Get it.

On a separate note, you use too many commas in your sentences. For example, "I don´t need a girlfriend, who´s cheating on me and I don´t need friends ,who actually don´t want to be my friends," shouldn't have the commas before "who", but it does need one between "on me" and "and I don't". This is because the clauses for "girlfriend" and "friends" are restrictive- they're narrowing down which friends and girlfriends you're talking about. Also, note the difference between the following:

If the "if" statement introduces the sentence, you need a comma.
You don't need a comma if the "if" statement closes a sentence.

See how I used the commas? See the difference?

[SRB1988]

I always got a B in English lessons, but it´s a few years ago.
Maybe, I should speak and write more english again , in the future.

I still remember my teacher telling me to leave commas out if I´m not sure and now I know why.

Thanks for the correction!

[Omar Little]

I think you should request a username change from "SRB1988" to "The Loyal"

[clairobscur]

Not a native english speaker, but count me amongst the posters who find the original message perfectly fine. Of course, anybody can torture the sentence in order to make negative assumptions, but I'd assume that most would just pay attention to unadultered, positive, message.

[SRB1988]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

I think you should request a username change from "SRB1988" to "The Loyal"

Haha, I´ll think about it

Originally Posted by clairobscur

Not a native english speaker, but count me amongst the posters who find the original message perfectly fine. Of course, anybody can torture the sentence in order to make negative assumptions, but I'd assume that most would just pay attention to unadultered, positive, message.

Thanks!

[elbows]

Please share what country you're from/in!

[Av8trix]

Loyalty Begets Loyalty?

[Chronos]

I think that the phrasing in the title is the most succinct way to express this idea. It's not a correct full sentence, but one wouldn't usually see a full sentence in a context like this.

And I, too, wonder where English-language tattoos are trendy for non-English speakers. Ascenray is correct that in English-speaking countries, something like this would usually be done in Latin, but I guess everyone's exotic to someone.

[Omar Little]

Originally Posted by Chronos

in English-speaking countries, something like this would usually be done in Latin

Or chinese characters that people think mean what they think they do.

[HMS Irruncible]

If I wanted a short tattoo message that captured this sentiment, I would say "loyal to loyalty". Or even just "loyalty".

The original sentence is grammatically correct. Some people might see it as vaguely threatening... "i don't betray people who don't betray me." But o me it just sounds obvious, maybe even trite. Of course we don't betray people who betray us. Of course loyalty is mutual, except in unusual circumstances. (forgive me for being harsh, but this is your lifetime skin we're talking about).

[arseNal]

I also think the original is fine. Personally I don't get any "screw me" connotation from it.

jackdavinci's "Loyal to the Loyal" is also good. It's even more succinct and loses very little, if any, meaning. However "Loyal to the Faithful" IMO does not mean the exact same thing. I think what's strong about using the same word twice is that it makes clear the reciprocal nature of the message. "Loyal to the Faithful" loses that. Again, IMO. Even tho this is GQ.

[Omar Little]

After I have had some time to think about it, I think you should get the following tattooed:

I am loyal to those that are loyal to me. This includes friends, family and girlfriends. If you have not been loyal to me then you really aren't my friend. And if you are a girlfriend that has not been loyal to me, then it was not meant to be, because I don't need a girlfriend that's been cheating on me. And if you don't want to be my friend, I don't need friends like that. I will always be loyal to family. If you screw me, I will not neccessarily screw you, because that's not what I mean here. Oh, and I'm a nice person.

You might want to reconsider the arm as a location, unless you're willing to make the font size smaller.

[Reno Nevada]

I think the OP's statement is fine. I think the more succinct version would be "Loyal to the loyal." But I came here to mention an Otto von Bismark quote:

With a gentleman I am always a gentleman and a half, and with a fraud I try to be a fraud and a half.

[SRB1988]

Originally Posted by Omar Little

Or chinese characters that people think mean what they think they do.

You may be right, but in the country I live it´s also the english language.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief

If I wanted a short tattoo message that captured this sentiment, I would say "loyal to loyalty". Or even just "loyalty".

The original sentence is grammatically correct. Some people might see it as vaguely threatening... "i don't betray people who don't betray me." But o me it just sounds obvious, maybe even trite. Of course we don't betray people who betray us. Of course loyalty is mutual, except in unusual circumstances. (forgive me for being harsh, but this is your lifetime skin we're talking about).

I know, of course it´s my lifetime skin, but I can´t understand that this could sound trite to someone. Do you have a tattoo or are you aginst tattoos generally?
I´ve seen a lot of tattoos which are way more senseless than mine. It´s not the name of somebody or the name of my favorite club. It´s an attitude towards life.

Originally Posted by arseNal

I also think the original is fine. Personally I don't get any "screw me" connotation from it.

jackdavinci's "Loyal to the Loyal" is also good. It's even more succinct and loses very little, if any, meaning. However "Loyal to the Faithful" IMO does not mean the exact same thing. I think what's strong about using the same word twice is that it makes clear the reciprocal nature of the message. "Loyal to the Faithful" loses that. Again, IMO. Even tho this is GQ.

We have the same opinion.Admittedly, I didn´t understand your last sentence ^^.

Originally Posted by Omar Little

After I have had some time to think about it, I think you should get the following tattooed:

I am loyal to those that are loyal to me. This includes friends, family and girlfriends. If you have not been loyal to me then you really aren't my friend. And if you are a girlfriend that has not been loyal to me, then it was not meant to be, because I don't need a girlfriend that's been cheating on me. And if you don't want to be my friend, I don't need friends like that. I will always be loyal to family. If you screw me, I will not neccessarily screw you, because that's not what I mean here. Oh, and I'm a nice person.

You might want to reconsider the arm as a location, unless you're willing to make the font size smaller.

-_- ....

[SRB1988]

Originally Posted by Reno Nevada

I think the OP's statement is fine. I think the more succinct version would be "Loyal to the loyal." But I came here to mention an Otto von Bismark quote:

I´ll think about " Loyal to the loyal". Maybe I´ll chose this one,but "Loyal to those loyal to me" has nothing to do with the second part of your Bismark quote. The term " fraud" just doesn´t fit.

[iftheresaway]

Originally Posted by SRB1988

I´ll think about " Loyal to the loyal". Maybe I´ll chose this one,but "Loyal to those loyal to me" has nothing to do with the second part of your Bismark quote. The term " fraud" just doesn´t fit.

Just make sure you're happy with it; you don't have to satisfy anyone else (and those who are loyal to you will love it because you do ). The sentence as written in the title is correct, so if it sounds good to you, go for it.

For the record, I don't think it's too long - I have two lines from a poem on my back, and my husband has two lines from a different poem on his chest. They make us happy.

[Autolycus]

IMO, when I hear 'loyal to those loyal to me,' I get both meanings. The first meaning that pops into my head is that of like an alpha dog who fiercely protects his pack. That is a very nice image. But, then I think 'what about people who aren't in his pack?' and that gives off a sorta threatening vibe. You sound like a nice person so I think most people would stick with the first meaning though.

[Jophiel]

I would just go with "Loyal to those loyal to me" so long as you're happy with how long the phrase is.

I think it sounds fine and gets across what you're trying to say.

[AClockworkMelon]

Originally Posted by jackdavinci

You could even go with

LOYAL
to the
LOYAL

or change it up

loyal to the faithful

or

faithful to the loyal

Loyal to the Loyal. I like that.

Originally Posted by Autolycus

IMO, when I hear 'loyal to those loyal to me,' I get both meanings. The first meaning that pops into my head is that of like an alpha dog who fiercely protects his pack. That is a very nice image. But, then I think 'what about people who aren't in his pack?' and that gives off a sorta threatening vibe. You sound like a nice person so I think most people would stick with the first meaning though.

And agreed. Its outright message is that you're loyal to those who deserve it. Its implied message is that you aren't to those who don't. Which is a cool enough message.

[JBDivmstr]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Relief

If I wanted a short tattoo message that captured this sentiment, I would say "loyal to loyalty". Or even just "loyalty".

The original sentence is grammatically correct. Some people might see it as vaguely threatening... "i don't betray people who don't betray me." But o me it just sounds obvious, maybe even trite. Of course we don't betray people who betray us. Of course loyalty is mutual, except in unusual circumstances. (forgive me for being harsh, but this is your lifetime skin we're talking about).

FWIW, I rather like "Loyal to loyalty". The 'loyal to those loyal to me' is also very good.
Just wondering though, should there be a comma inserted between those and loyal? "Loyal to those, loyal to me."

[Hypnagogic Jerk]

Originally Posted by elbows

Please share what country you're from/in!

I assumed Serbia, and born in 1988.

[jackdavinci]

Originally Posted by JBDivmstr

FWIW, I rather like "Loyal to loyalty". The 'loyal to those loyal to me' is also very good.
Just wondering though, should there be a comma inserted between those and loyal? "Loyal to those, loyal to me."

No comma. That sentence would mean "I'm loyal to those people, and I'm loyal to myself".