This morning on my way to work I was listening to the This American Life Podcast #458Play the Part. The second story was about a man who was perceived to have Asperger’s jokingly by his wife. He was later diagnosed to have it and the piece went on to discuss their issues and resolutions.
The wife came home and complained about the traffic on her commute and the husband responded by pulling out maps and trying to find different routes that she could try so she wouldn’t have that problem. She was upset that instead of empathizing with her plight, he moved on to a solution.
The story went on, talking about overcoming Asperger’s and how he did it. And in most instances, I totally agree about how socially problematic that would be. But I personally cannot wrap my head around a person who would chose to just complain as opposed to complain, be heard, and then be offered solutions on how to fix it in the future.
It’s a pretty common theme in just about every TV show that has some sort of romantic story line. The guy and girl get into some sort of fight, the guy goes and talks to a bunch of other girls and they always give the same advice “She’s not looking for solutions, she just wants someone to listen to her”. Having said that, I think you may have answered your own question…
Can you see the difference…he didn’t listen. She just wanted to blow off some steam, not find a new way home from work to shave 5 minutes off her daily commute.
Sometimes there is no good solution, and people just want to bitch. I’ve also not found this to be exclusive to women at all. A lot of people like to complain, and it’s nice to have someone around who’s sympathetic to their plight.
I tend more toward the “solver” end while my husband is more of an empathy complainer. Luckily, it costs me nothing to shut my fat mouth and be sympathetic.
I totally see the difference. To my possibly Asperger’s mind, I don’t think of it as him not listening though. I see that he listened as his solution was relevent to the problem. There just seems to be a logical gap in “complaining to just complain” and “complaining and being upset at a solution that would get rid of the complaint”.
[QUOTE=White Men Can’t Jump]
Gloria: Honey? My mouth is dry. Honey. I’m thirsty.
Billy: Umm… [ Water Runs ] There you go. honey.
Gloria: When I said I was thirsty, it doesn’t mean I want a glass of water.
Billy: It doesn’t?
Gloria: You’re missing the whole point of me saying I’m thirsty. If I have a problem, you’re not supposed to solve it. Men always make the mistake of thinking they can solve a woman’s problem. It makes them feel omnipotent.
Billy: Omnipotent? Did you have a bad dream?
Gloria: It’s a way of controlling a woman.
Billy: Bringing them a glass of water?
Gloria: Yes. I read it in a magazine. See… if I’m thirsty…..I don’t want a glass of water. I want you to sympathize. I want you to say. “Gloria. I. TOO. Know what it feels like to be thirsty. I. TOO. Have had a dry mouth.” I want you to connect with me through the sharing and understanding the concept of dry mouthedness.
Billy:….This is all in the same magazine?
[/QUOTE]
To me, that’s the insane part. And yeah, I’m sure it’s hyped up for humor’s sake. And yeah, we all need to vent about things, but it’s being upset to hear solutions or be given solutions-that’s the part that I don’t get.
I don’t find this to be exclusive of women either. I’m a man, and sometimes just want to complain and be listened to, rather than be offered a solution (usually put in the form of “Here’s what you should do…” which invariably turns out to be some of the worst advice possible. In fact, when my oldest daughter was about a year old, I was “advised” by my boss (a woman) that my wife and I should have another child so my daughter would have someone to play with!).
I’ve also listened to other male friends through the years who just wanted to vent, bitch, and complain. They made it clear they didn’t want advice, sympathy, or empathy.
If I want advice, I’ll ask for an opinion on what to do. Otherwise, just listen while I blow off steam.
I’m a solver. My wife is a complainer. Our solution: Tell me if you’re talking to complain or wanting a solution, and I’ll give you the attention you need.
Many people just like to bitch and complain. They are not interested in fixing their problems. In fact, they like having problems, since it gives them an excuse to bitch and complain some more.
If people were interested in solutions, they wouldn’t keep being morons making the same mistakes over and over.
(Little bitter about this topic, as I’m an irreverent solver and it causes me no end of pain when dealing with people. And I use the word irreverent deliberately - I’m often labeled as deliberately disrespectful because of this).
Not all complaints are problems to be solved, they’re situations to be coped with. Sharing the frustrations helps release the emotional energy and lets a person move on to other things. Trying to solve the unsolvable is not practical.
When your wife (your hypothetical NPR wife) just wants someone to listen and you pull out the maps, it probably gives the impression that you’re not listening anymore. So, she mentions bad traffic, you think you’ve got the message- “fix traffic problem,” and then your brain veers off, thinking about solutions to the traffic problem rather than listening to someone who wants to complain, who then feels like she’s being ignored.
Also, a bad traffic day on the way home doesn’t usually even have a good solution, other than obtaining god-like powers and getting rid of all the other cars. People usually already use the route home from work that they think is optimal or easiest, or whatever. So, trying to find a new route just because traffic sucks one day is ignoring the reason for the bitching, which is “the universe sucks today and I want to bitch about it,” not, “oh wise one, solve my unsolvable problem that is in the past anyway.” Acting like that even can be solved by you kind of implies that your wife is an idiot incapable of solving actual problems on her own.
That was a really good This American Life broadcast. The husband began keeping a journal of best practices such as “if my wife is enjoying singing along with the radio, don’t abruptly change the channel,” and “don’t eat all the orange chicken.”
IME, too often the solvers try to provide a solution to a problem which does not exist any more.
Example: I say that waaaay back when I could not find a certain product in supermarkets, but I found it in other stores.
Several posters reply with “oh, that’s not possible!” OK, so in their opinion either I’m stupid or a liar.
Other posters reply with “you should have looked in other stores!” In my opinion, these posters need remedial reading.
My mother is both a complainer and a solver. We’ll be trying to explain that we had a problem and how we solved it and she’ll cut us to say how we should have solved it. We already solved it!
Men - and it’s not always, but often - look at the world as a series of puzzles to be solved, and often they look at women this way, too. In your example in the OP, I wouldn’t want to break out the maps and find an alternate way home unless it was really a problem and then I’d do it on my own. I pretty much like to take the same route home every day, it’s comforting. Why is it difficult to understand that she just called him to chat and complain about the commute a little?
It’s not that I like having problems, it’s that everybody has the same problems, and sometimes we like to commiserate a little. Now that doesn’t mean some people don’t just bitch for the hell of it, but I’ll tell you for sure that’s not exclusive to women.
So, how does one know if a complaint is venting or the beginning of a search for solutions? Or should complains outside work always be presumed to be venting?
“The trash hasn’t been taken out.”
“Oh, I know what you mean. I always hate when that happens.”
I get that once in a while, people want to vent, but what does one do with a serial venter? I used to work with someone who would vent nearly everyday, sometimes several times a day. I got into the habit of treating what she said as white noise as soon as I saw she started complaining but when you have to cooperate with someone, that has downsides.
Sometimes I need to blow off some steam. Sometimes the complaint isn’t really that, say, the traffic sucked on the way home. It’s that a ton of small things went wrong (what Hyperbole and a Half calls the Sneaky Hate Spiral) and the traffic was just the last straw. What I need then is somebody to say “Poor you! I’m glad you’re home.”
Sometimes I need to think out loud. Maybe I’m not sure myself if I’m upset about the traffic or if something else is bothering me and I’m misdirecting my frustration to the traffic. Maybe I need to work out whether the problem is serious enough to be worth the effort of changing it, or whether I would be better off accepting it and just getting on with life. Maybe I feel like the solution is staring me in the face and I can’t quite make it out, and if I talk about it I might just see it better.
And yes, I do tell my husband when I’m just thinking out loud. I figure at least some of the time he mostly tunes me out, but that’s okay. He’s a decent actor and, after twenty-plus years, he knows when to look interested
Serial venters are very annoying, yes. Once I slipped up with one and was inadvertently rude. She would come in to the office and spend the first 30 minutes bitching to me. One day she came in and said “I’m in a really good mood today!” and before I could stop it, I said something like “Oh really? I’m shocked.”
She was savvy enough to realize, and she bitches to me less now. You could try an accidental slipup like that. But it may or may not work.
I’m sure she’s not looking for solutions. I’ve also said, “I prefer to look at the positive side of things” and “if you don’t laugh, you’ll cry”.
ETA: But as your coworker you really have no obligation toward her except whatever makes you be able to work in peace.
That’s the goal right there – she’s not “bitching and moaning”, she wants you to hear her. She wants to be seen as a person, not “solved.” And I get that too. Sometimes I’ll say something just because I want to be valued as a human being. There’s nothing worse than having someone respond to that with “Here’s where you went wrong.”
Usually, I go by the nature of the complaint. If it’s about work or something that’s already happened rather than in the process of happening, I can assume it’s venting, as my husband is great at his job and working in a field in which I have no expertise. Thus, any solutions I’d offer would be useless. If it’s about something I did and can potentially avoid doing in the future, I assume it’s something for which I should find a solution.
Very often people are complaining to let off steam. It is not the actual solution to the problem they need help with; it is the emotional release, and also the knowledge that there is someone who is always on their side regardless of circumstances. If you try to solve the literal, immediate problem the person is telling you about, you are showing that you are not really listening to them, because what they need is emotional support.
Vihaga, that sounds like a great way to go about it. I’m going to put your ideas into use immediately.
For those who still don’t quite get it (and it took me the longest time), maybe a more relatable example might help.
Suppose you woke up really happy, dressed sharp, got compliments all day, had an almost transcendent lunch with great friends, got a new kitty, and came home to find out that you won the lottery. Oh, and it’s your birthday.
You come to this board to share your good news, maybe get a few virtual high-fives, and hope to put a smile on some other peoples’ faces. All because you feel great.
You post “I just had the bestest day EVAR!”
The first response is “It’s spelled ‘ever’, and bestest isn’t a word. Learn to spell, asshole.”
The next is “I weep for the illiteracy in this country.”
Followed by “I blame the Republicrats for the OP being a dimwit.”
