Is the KFC recipe really a secret? If so is it valuable?

[Bozuit]

According to Wikipedia, the only complete copy of the secret KFC recipe is the original handwritten note, and it is kept "in a ... secure, computerized vault guarded by motion detectors and security cameras."

Is the recipe really a secret? If so, wouldn't it be possible to work out what it contains? Is that security justified - would someone really go to the trouble of stealing it if there were less security - or is the whole thing just about promotion?

[August West]

In one of the Big Secrets books, William Poundstone got his hands on some KFC material and had it analyzed. IIRC, it was flour, salt, pepper, and MSG. No "eleven secret ingredients"

[Great Antibob]

Yes, a secret recipe really exists and is kept secret.

Yes, it's largely about promotion, much like Coca-Cola's secret recipe.

[aceplace57]

KFC today does not seem anything like the fried chicken we bought in the 1970's. There was a time when KFC was the best fried chicken you could buy.

I think the Colonials recipe was thrown ought decades ago.

KFC was a combination of the recipe and the cooking methods that the Colonial perfected. There's no question its been heavily modified.

[kenobi 65]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

KFC today does not seem anything like the fried chicken we bought in the 1970's. There was a time when KFC was the best fried chicken you could buy.

I think the Colonials recipe was thrown ought decades ago.

Having known several people over the years who worked for KFC (at HQ, not at local restaurants), I can tell you that the Colonel's recipe was not "thrown out", per se, but it's been incrementally (and repeatedly) modified over the years (often for cost-reduction reasons). OTOH, I know of at least two separate efforts which KFC has gone through in recent years to return Original Recipe to something closer to the true "original".

[Chronos]

Colonel, not Colonial. Spell check hit you there?

But yeah, anyone who wanted to know could figure it out, but it's still very valuable, because it lets them use that in their advertising campaign.

According to Wikipedia, the only complete copy of the secret KFC recipe is the original handwritten note, and it is kept "in a ... secure, computerized vault guarded by motion detectors and security cameras."

This, though, can't be true. The stuff has to actually get made somewhere, and the machines that mix it have to be set somehow to put in X amount from vat 1, Y amount from vat 2. The settings on the mixing machines would then constitute another copy of the recipe.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Colonel, not Colonial. Spell check hit you there?

But yeah, anyone who wanted to know could figure it out, but it's still very valuable, because it lets them use that in their advertising campaign.

This, though, can't be true. The stuff has to actually get made somewhere, and the machines that mix it have to be set somehow to put in X amount from vat 1, Y amount from vat 2. The settings on the mixing machines would then constitute another copy of the recipe.

There wouldn't necessarily be another "complete copy," however. The ingredients in vat 1 could be put together in one place, while those in vat 2 come from some other place, and the two mixed together in a third place. Therefore there would be no single list containing all the ingredients separately.

Of course, I'm not saying this happens, just that it's one way there could be only a single copy.

[aceplace57]

yeah, I grabbed the first choice offered by spell checker. I should have looked at it closer.

Originally Posted by Chronos

Colonel, not Colonial. Spell check hit you there?

But yeah, anyone who wanted to know could figure it out, but it's still very valuable, because it lets them use that in their advertising campaign.

This, though, can't be true. The stuff has to actually get made somewhere, and the machines that mix it have to be set somehow to put in X amount from vat 1, Y amount from vat 2. The settings on the mixing machines would then constitute another copy of the recipe.

[VOW]

I don't know about how much the chicken has changed, but the damned SIDES are different.

The gravy used to be made with the seasoned flour used on the chicken. It was ethereal, absolutely worthy of the reverence Cartman gives it on South Park.

NOW it's beef gravy mix, 1/4 cup in one cup of water, simmer until thick. Nasty, nasty. The potatoes are instant.

The biscuits are truly sorry, and the so-called "honey" is a honey "sauce" made with HFCS that someone whispered the word "honey" over the top.


~VOW

[Bozuit]

Originally Posted by Colibri

There wouldn't necessarily be another "complete copy," however. The ingredients in vat 1 could be put together in one place, while those in vat 2 come from some other place, and the two mixed together in a third place. Therefore there would be no single list containing all the ingredients separately.

Of course, I'm not saying this happens, just that it's one way there could be only a single copy.

That's what happens (again, according to Wikipedia).

[Loach]

Damn my diet now I want some KFC.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Bozuit

According to Wikipedia, the only complete copy of the secret KFC recipe is the original handwritten note, and it is kept "in a ... secure, computerized vault guarded by motion detectors and security cameras."

Is the recipe really a secret? If so, wouldn't it be possible to work out what it contains? Is that security justified - would someone really go to the trouble of stealing it if there were less security - or is the whole thing just about promotion?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...vl60vz5RkRDUcw

Well their 'grilled chicken' recipe ain't a secret.

[Washoe]

Saw a great cartoon in Playboy back in the seventies. Two cops are hauling Colonel Sanders out of one of his franchises, and one cop is saying to the other “I found out what’s in those 11 herbs and spices.”

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Loach

Damn my diet now I want some KFC.

It's some of the best tasting, bad-for-you foods out there!

[Kansas Beekeeper]

Originally Posted by aceplace57

KFC today does not seem anything like the fried chicken we bought in the 1970's. There was a time when KFC was the best fried chicken you could buy.

I think the Colonials recipe was thrown ought decades ago.

KFC was a combination of the recipe and the cooking methods that the Colonial perfected. There's no question its been heavily modified.

Agreed. KFC is not what it used to be. The hot food counter at the local grocery store now has better fried chicken.

[Acsenray]

"Secret recipes," whether Coke or KFC or anything else is really just about promotion. It's foodstuff with a limited number of possible ingredients and given the time and resources, a competitor could duplicate it in a short time at little expense.

But why would anyone bother? Is Pepsi going to advertise "Pepsi tastes just like Coke!" Is Popeye's going to say "Our chicken tastes just like KFC!" There would be no point.

And to the extent that store brands or bargain brands try to duplicate the taste of Coke, Coke (1) can't do anything about it and (2) needn't bother. The real value of Coke is its trademarks and trade dress. Coke isn't going to lose significant market share to a generic soda that tastes like Coke.

In fact, there was a whole episode of This American Life about trying to figure out Coke's secret formula and they basically were able to do it, but they concluded that it didn't really change anything about the soda market.

[GuanoLad]

Now I want Colonial Chicken. BSG meets MSG.

[Shalmanese]

Believe it or not, there's an entire forum dedicated to unearthing KFC's original recipe. Everyone pretty much agrees that the current incarnation is a pale shadow of the original, original recipe and that there's no point trying to duplicate the current recipe.

[shijinn]

this reminds me of the story of the Soup Stone. it really is magic, if you buy into it. alas with KFC the magic is gone, for the original formula is no longer followed, even if they still possess the secret 'stone'.

[GameHat]

Originally Posted by Kansas Beekeeper

Agreed. KFC is not what it used to be. The hot food counter at the local grocery store now has better fried chicken.

*secretive whisper*

Go to Bojangles. Best fast-food fried chicken there is.

[Kansas Beekeeper]

Originally Posted by GameHat

*secretive whisper*

Go to Bojangles. Best fast-food fried chicken there is.

None in Kansas. :-(

[Oakminster]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

Now I want Colonial Chicken. BSG meets MSG.

Finger Frackin Good!

[GameHat]

Originally Posted by Kansas Beekeeper

None in Kansas. :-(

Next best is Popeyes - they have a Kansas location or two, plus many in KC, MO.

Almost equal to Bojangles, and both are worlds better than KFC.

If you can't get to either - time to find a good local soul-food restaurant or fry your own

[Bozuit]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

But why would anyone bother? Is Pepsi going to advertise "Pepsi tastes just like Coke!" Is Popeye's going to say "Our chicken tastes just like KFC!" There would be no point.

Hundreds of independent fast food places could maybe benefit from it though.

A few people have said the recipe isn't as good as it used to be. Any chance this is just a case of everything seeming better when you were younger, or is there good reason to think this is true? I'm normally sceptical when people say "it used to be better".

I don't even know why I care about this, I'm vegetarian and I've never eaten KFC....

[Acsenray]

Originally Posted by Bozuit

Hundreds of independent fast food places could maybe benefit from it though.

Maybe they could or maybe they couldn't. It's tricky making factual claims in advertising while using competitors' trademarks. You have to be very careful that you're on solid ground. If you say "we use the same recipe as KFC used to," KFC will come back and say, "How do you know that? We've never released our recipes to the public. That's false advertising." The recipe without the accompanying trademark is of little use.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...vl60vz5RkRDUcw

Well their 'grilled chicken' recipe ain't a secret.

Far worse than that for me is that it contains wheat. As someone who may have Celiac's, it really bugs me when people add wheat to unnecessary things. KFC is the only fast food restaurannt I know of that puts wheat in everything whether it's a necessary part of it or not. Though Taco Bell is close.

They even put out a gluten free menu. It contains their soft drinks and condiments.

Originally Posted by Bozuit

A few people have said the recipe isn't as good as it used to be. Any chance this is just a case of everything seeming better when you were younger, or is there good reason to think this is true? I'm normally sceptical when people say "it used to be better"..

I don't know for sure about the recipe, but I know the old cooking method is no longer used. And, as pointed out, the gravy is definitely different.

Originally Posted by Acsenray

Maybe they could or maybe they couldn't. It's tricky making factual claims in advertising while using competitors' trademarks. You have to be very careful that you're on solid ground. If you say "we use the same recipe as KFC used to," KFC will come back and say, "How do you know that? We've never released our recipes to the public. That's false advertising." The recipe without the accompanying trademark is of little use.

Of course you wouldn't say that. You say it "tastes like the colonel used to make." Or even "Compare this to KFCs old recipe." You know, the types of claims that current dupes make.

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

But why would anyone bother? Is Pepsi going to advertise "Pepsi tastes just like Coke!" Is Popeye's going to say "Our chicken tastes just like KFC!" There would be no point.

*snip*

Coke isn't going to lose significant market share to a generic soda that tastes like Coke.

This is what I don't understand. Millions of people by generic cola because it is cheaper, and it happens to taste like crap.

If there was a company that advertised that they tasted just like coke, but were 30% cheaper. I would be all over that.

I don't see why people would NOT buy it. No one buys coke so their friends can see them carrying a coke can. It's not like it is a status symbol or something.

[Chronos]

Bizarre as it sounds, it is a status symbol, or something very much like it. Most Coke drinkers, given a taste test, prefer Pepsi. They're not drinking Coke because they like it, but because it's a "classic", or an "American tradition", or the like. That's why New Coke bombed so badly.

[Grateful-UnDead]

Originally Posted by Hermitian

This is what I don't understand. Millions of people by generic cola because it is cheaper, and it happens to taste like crap.

If there was a company that advertised that they tasted just like coke, but were 30% cheaper. I would be all over that.

I don't see why people would NOT buy it. No one buys coke so their friends can see them carrying a coke can. It's not like it is a status symbol or something.

Actually, there was a discussion on this very subject some time ago; unfortunately, my attempt at finding it and providing a link didn't work. Can anyone else find it?

While we are on the subject, does anyone have the recipe for "Kraft Golden Caesar Salad Dressing"?

I was not impressed when they took it off the market!!!!!!

[Hermitian]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Bizarre as it sounds, it is a status symbol, or something very much like it. Most Coke drinkers, given a taste test, prefer Pepsi. They're not drinking Coke because they like it, but because it's a "classic", or an "American tradition", or the like. That's why New Coke bombed so badly.

That makes my head hurt just thinking about it. Apparently people are dumber than I thought.

[Accidental Martyr]

Originally Posted by Bozuit

Hundreds of independent fast food places could maybe benefit from it though.

A few people have said the recipe isn't as good as it used to be. Any chance this is just a case of everything seeming better when you were younger, or is there good reason to think this is true? I'm normally sceptical when people say "it used to be better".

I don't even know why I care about this, I'm vegetarian and I've never eaten KFC....

I've wondered the same thing. I swear KFC is nowhere near as good now as it was when I was a kid in the 70s-early 80s. I've never been sure if this was just a case of "everything was better when I was a kid."

[Jim's Son]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Bizarre as it sounds, it is a status symbol, or something very much like it. Most Coke drinkers, given a taste test, prefer Pepsi. They're not drinking Coke because they like it, but because it's a "classic", or an "American tradition", or the like. That's why New Coke bombed so badly.

Coca-Cola IS a status symbol. There were a number of songs by The Only Group That Matters (The Clash) that specifically mention it. Jones and Strummer didn't write any songs about any generic colas (but they also didn't know "Washington Bullets" was also the name of an NBA team).

One theory why New Coke bombed despite doing well in taste tests (why why Pepsi does so well) is that in small samples people prefer the drinks with more sugar. But that doesn't carry over with a lot of Coca-Cola drinkers if they are drinking more than a few sips.

[Odesio]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Bizarre as it sounds, it is a status symbol, or something very much like it. Most Coke drinkers, given a taste test, prefer Pepsi. They're not drinking Coke because they like it, but because it's a "classic", or an "American tradition", or the like. That's why New Coke bombed so badly.

The last time I took the Pepsi Taste Challenge (1988 or so), I was given a prize if I picked Pepsi and nothing if I picked Coca-Cola. So of course I picked Pepsi.

[VOW]

Believe me, die-hard Coke drinkers absolutely KNOW the difference between Coke and Pepsi, and prefer Coke. Period.

When New Coke came out, I tried it. I told people if I wanted to drink RC, I'd drink RC.

Given a choice between Coke and Pepsi, my husband will drink iced tea. I'll take water.


~VOW

[BigT]

I never understood why people who said they preferred Coke would pick Pepsi in a taste test. If Pepsi tastes better than Coke, then it also has to taste different than Coke. And if you think you like Coke more, why would you pick the one that doesn't taste like Coke?

[Acsenray]

Taste can be contextual. As others have noted, in other studies, it shows that Pepsi comes out better when you're just taking one sip, but for larger quantities, a lot of people find Pepsi too sweet-tasting.

[pulykamell]

Originally Posted by Acsenray

Taste can be contextual. As others have noted, in other studies, it shows that Pepsi comes out better when you're just taking one sip, but for larger quantities, a lot of people find Pepsi too sweet-tasting.

I find that to be true of small portion food/drink competition taste testing in general. Stuff that I would call overly sweet or over-salted or just way too assertive seem to do well in contests where the judges get just a bite of each dish. When you only have one bite or sip to impress, it makes sense that something that packs it all into that portion would do well, versus something that actually still tastes good the whole meal or drink through.

[aruvqan]

Originally Posted by BigT

I never understood why people who said they preferred Coke would pick Pepsi in a taste test. If Pepsi tastes better than Coke, then it also has to taste different than Coke. And if you think you like Coke more, why would you pick the one that doesn't taste like Coke?

Because they are very similar flavors, both based on 'cola' and many people have no sense of taste, just think that their chosen flavor is better. There is no substantial difference in brown bubbly swill, it isn't like one has cocaine in it and the other doesn't any further.

[Sicks Ate]

Originally Posted by GameHat

Next best is Popeyes - they have a Kansas location or two, plus many in KC, MO.

Almost equal to Bojangles, and both are worlds better than KFC.

If you can't get to either - time to find a good local soul-food restaurant or fry your own

I'm gonna have to disgree and say that Church's (crispy) is better than Popeyes....yummmmmmm. But hey, I also highly recommend having a side-by-side taste test. What a marvelous day full of fried chicken that would be.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by VOW

.

The gravy used to be made with the seasoned flour used on the chicken. It was ethereal, absolutely worthy of the reverence Cartman gives it on South Park.

NOW it's beef gravy mix, 1/4 cup in one cup of water, simmer until thick. Nasty, nasty. The potatoes are instant.

I recall an article years ago about the Colonial. He would personally inspect many of the franchises. Despite it being a fried chicken joint, apparently the thing he was most picky about and most places did wrong was the gravy. And if they failed they found out he was a cylon and he fracked their asses up.

But seriously, the guy was apparently dead serious about doing the gravy right. And I too remember the chicken and especially the gravy being much better back in the good ole days. And god forbid he ever saw the crap in a bowl shit they came out with a handful of years back.

[D18]

Originally Posted by Chronos

Bizarre as it sounds, it is a status symbol, or something very much like it. Most Coke drinkers, given a taste test, prefer Pepsi. They're not drinking Coke because they like it, but because it's a "classic", or an "American tradition", or the like. That's why New Coke bombed so badly.

[hijack] I don't have the book in front of me, but in Blink, Gladwell makes the case that there is a bias in the classic taste test - when sipping, people prefer the sweeter drink; when drinking a can, it can be too much of a good thing.[/hijack]

[LawMonkey]

The Colonel himself wasn't thrilled with the direction his product took after he left the helm--there's a court case that quotes him as calling the mashed potatoes "wallpaper paste." I can't find it for the life of me, but the wiki article on him mentions the quote.

[Chronos]

The bit about a small taste being different from a full serving might be true, but if so, the Coke executives didn't realize it at the time, or they wouldn't have made the mistake of trying to accommodate the taste tests in the first place.

[kenobi 65]

Originally Posted by Bozuit

A few people have said the recipe isn't as good as it used to be. Any chance this is just a case of everything seeming better when you were younger, or is there good reason to think this is true? I'm normally sceptical when people say "it used to be better".

See my post earlier in the thread. While I don't disagree that memories are not necessarily a reliable indicator, the formula has, indeed, been tinkered with over the years (and not necessarily to improve it).

[md2000]

Originally Posted by billfish678

I recall an article years ago about the Colonial. He would personally inspect many of the franchises. Despite it being a fried chicken joint, apparently the thing he was most picky about and most places did wrong was the gravy. And if they failed they found out he was a cylon and he fracked their asses up.

But seriously, the guy was apparently dead serious about doing the gravy right. And I too remember the chicken and especially the gravy being much better back in the good ole days. And god forbid he ever saw the crap in a bowl shit they came out with a handful of years back.

Originally Posted by LawMonkey

The Colonel himself wasn't thrilled with the direction his product took after he left the helm--there's a court case that quotes him as calling the mashed potatoes "wallpaper paste." I can't find it for the life of me, but the wiki article on him mentions the quote.

Yeah, I remember reading about the case. he called the gravy in one restaurant, IIRC, wallpaper paste and was sued by the franchisee... who lost. Seriously, if you were on a jury and some guy was suing Colonel Sanders over the description of KFC products, who would you believe?

the Toronto Star magazine interview back in the 70's featured him grilling a steak for the interviewer...

[installLSC]

Originally Posted by LawMonkey

The Colonel himself wasn't thrilled with the direction his product took after he left the helm--there's a court case that quotes him as calling the mashed potatoes "wallpaper paste." I can't find it for the life of me, but the wiki article on him mentions the quote.

It's from the William Poundstone book "Big Secrets". The reason he was so upset was that soon after he sold KFC in 1964, the new owners changed the recipie on the grounds it was too labor intensive.

[pkbites]

Hmmm.

Many years ago I was doing some consulting work to supplement my income from law enforcement. One of the people I hired had to go into a company and pose as a worker to try to determine if other workers were doing drugs, stealing, etc.. This company made the coating mix for KFC and every employee got searched going into and leaving work. And it wasn't the rll your eyes type "show me your receipt" rent-a-cop Kmart type search either. It was pretty thorough.

So either that recipe is truly secret or it gets on the list as one of the biggest bullshit stories pulled over Americas eyes like the "Holy" bible and the 55 mile per hour national speed limit.

[CairoCarol]

I always thought that one possible reason things don't taste as yummy as they used to is because one develops a more sophisticated palate. As a kid I loved PopTarts; now I think they are foul. I'm not sure the recipe has changed, however; I just have a better appreciation for what constitutes good food.

Having said that, in the mid-1980s I made a recipe from The Complete Asian Cookbook by Charmaine Solomon called "ayam goreng Jawa" (Javanese fried chicken). It was a pain in the butt to make so I was quite disappointed when it came out tasting like...KFC! But it tasted like the KFC of my childhood, which would have been in the 1960s.

The flavorings in that recipe are: onion, garlic, ginger, chili, candlenut, coconut milk, desiccated coconut, laos (galangal), coriander, turmeric, lemon grass, and curry leaves. It's very hard to believe the Colonel would have even known what some of those ingredients were, and they wouldn't have been available in the US when he started his business anyway. But I've often wondered if a few of the more common items on that list might have been in the original recipe. Onion, garlic, desiccated coconut, perhaps a pinch of coriander and turmeric?

[Darth Panda]

On the Coke v. Pepsi thing - I actually did a case study on this in B-school. A couple items that were discussed were (more by the students than the case, case did bring up number 1 - and maybe #2, but I can't remember for sure):

1) Pepsi seems to be sweeter, so with one sip, a lot of people will prefer it, but when it comes to drinking a whole glass, not necessarily.

2) Some of the "flavors" that some people (Coke drinkers) don't care for in Pepsi aren't prominent when it's very, very cold.

[The Dord]

Originally Posted by Shalmanese

Believe it or not, there's an entire forum dedicated to unearthing KFC's original recipe. Everyone pretty much agrees that the current incarnation is a pale shadow of the original, original recipe and that there's no point trying to duplicate the current recipe.

All i get from going to one of their threads is:

Could not obtain post/user information.

DEBUG MODE

SQL Error : 144 Table './forumcouk/kfc_posts_text' is marked as crashed and last (automatic?) repair failed

SELECT u.username, u.user_id, u.user_posts, u.user_from, u.user_website, u.user_email, u.user_icq, u.user_aim, u.user_yim, u.user_regdate, u.user_msnm, u.user_viewemail, u.user_rank, u.user_sig, u.user_sig_bbcode_uid, u.user_avatar, u.user_avatar_type, u.user_allowavatar, u.user_allowsmile, p.*, pt.post_text, pt.post_subject, pt.bbcode_uid FROM kfc_posts p, kfc_users u, kfc_posts_text pt WHERE p.topic_id = 1660 AND pt.post_id = p.post_id AND u.user_id = p.poster_id ORDER BY p.post_time ASC LIMIT 0, 15

Line : 414
File : viewtopic.php

Am I forced to be a member to view these threads?