Is there a specific rule about advocating Naziism?

[Really Not All That Bright]

This guy just got banned for it. I looked through the board rules and didn't see anything about it, and ISTM that it isn't necessarily being a jerk.

[runner pat]

Probably considered trolling. It's obvious the only thing he was going to contribute was trying to spread Nazism.

[Morgenstern]

His claim that "I came to spread the word. 14/88" pretty much painted him as a white supremacist. I don't get it. Most of the board complains when such fools aren't swiftly banned, and when one is, you're wondering why?

Props to Marley for his swift euthanasia of an obvious under-bridge dweller.

[Really Not All That Bright]

I don't know what your definition of trolling is, but the one I know applies only to people who throw out stuff to get a rise out of people. It's not trolling if you genuinely believe in your stupid shit. Being a white supremacist is not, in and of itself, a violation of board rules.

ETA: if you are referring to NDD, I think people were split about 50/50 on whether to ban him and it had little to do with his specific views. It was more about him shitting in every thread tangientially related to race, and characterizing every post that disagreed with him as a logical fallacy. I didn't think he should be banned until he called MrDibble a rapist, for example, and AIUI that was the straw that broke the mods' backs.

[Morgenstern]

At the very least, he violated the don't be a jerk rule.

[Really Not All That Bright]

He was warned about using slurs. I certainly have no problem with that sort of moderation but I don't see where he did it again, or anything. Are you saying that advocating Naziism is inherently jerkish?

[Morgenstern]

He, by his own words, came to spread the word about white supremacy. I'll be the first in line to call that being a jerk. Whether he believes in it or not, doesn't matter. We've seen a summer of racial malcontents disrupting the board with their half witted crap, worthless cites, and general douchebaggery.

[jtgain]

Originally Posted by Morgenstern

He, by his own words, came to spread the word about white supremacy. I'll be the first in line to call that being a jerk. Whether he believes in it or not, doesn't matter. We've seen a summer of racial malcontents disrupting the board with their half witted crap, worthless cites, and general douchebaggery.

How far will we go down that slippery slope? I also would consider a white supremacist a jerk, but I'm sure others would consider anti-abortion or anti-gay marriage people jerks. How long until all of the above are banned along with people who don't support GOP tax cuts because a conservative mod considers those people "jerks"?

[John Mace]

First, they came for the Nazis...

I'm kind of on board with the OP. Kind of. I'm not so bothered the guy was banned, but Marley's explanation seemed inadequate, as it implies that advocating Nazism is against the rules. Is it?

[Peter Morris]

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=650726

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use the SDMB to post any material that you know or should know is false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or in violation of U.S. law."

Naziism is inherently hateful, so against the rules by definition

[Really Not All That Bright]

Oh, come on. When two thirds of us were calling GWB a shitstain, none of us got warnings. It was justified, but certainly hateful.

[Peter Morris]

It's one thing to hate an individual because of the things that he chose to do.

It's something else to hate every single member of a race just for having different skin.

[TriPolar]

I don't think advocating Naziism should be disallowed. But in that case it was clear that it wasn't an academic discussion of the topic. I can see that a combination of some loathsome subjects, and the use of slurs and vitriolic language would be grounds for banning the topic. However, Marley did only provide one warning, then 2 minutes later banned him for other content that could have been included in the first warning. Not that I care about that banning or the shut down of that thread in particular, but a second warning or more inclusive warning should have been given to keep things kosher.

[silenus]

I, OTOH, think that Naziism should be banned on the Board (and everywhere else, for that matter.) So props for Marley for pulling the trigger on that jerk very promptly.

[Chimera]

It would appear that the man banned himself by insulting other posters and shitting his nonsense in other threads. That's the key here. You can argue about how fast it was done or if he should have gotten more warnings (and to be sure, I haven't tracked through the board trying to find all his posts, nor will I), and certainly a long time poster would have been given more leeway, but given that we've been bombed by racists and idiots (often one and the same) lately, I have no problem with our mods 'pulling weeds' as it were.

[KarlGauss]

Originally Posted by TriPolar

. . . but a second warning or more inclusive warning should have been given to keep things kosher.

More evidence of the Jewish plot.

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

I can't believe I missed a neonazi. That was quick.

[Really Not All That Bright]

Originally Posted by Chimera

It would appear that the man banned himself by insulting other posters and shitting his nonsense in other threads.

He didn't post in any other threads.

[Chimera]

So it is. Only that thread. I clearly failed my correspondence course in Reading For Comprehension.

I still won't cry over that banning.

[Siam Sam]

I have no problem whatsoever with banning Nazis. Zero tolerance toward them is my rule.

It's the rule of the US government too. To this day, my wife is still asked on her application to renew her US visa whether she was ever a member of the Nazi Party. An affirmative answer would mean no visa.

[Stink Fish Pot]

I don't like the banning simply because he held an unpopular view. I know it's easy to jump in here and say great banning, and Nazis suck forever!, but that strikes me as ignorant to the idea of fighting ignorance. He didn't sound completely illiterate in the OP I read when he was banned. It would be an interesting debate with someone who thought their reasoning to be spot on. Maybe they'd learn something from the folks on this board.

Silencing them doesn't make them go away. In general, it makes them angry, more isolated, and a banning just strengthens their point in their mind. If he's a troll, by all means ban him. But if he hasn't been here long enoigh to build up a trollish pattern, let him speak and eventually his own words will do him in if he is a troll.

But it might give all of those unwilling to even read a post from someone like this to get a point of view they never considered. Mind changing? Doubtful. But perhaps in the debate/discussion someone shines on him will give him a different point of view. That cant be bad, can it?

We don't ban someone for discussing slavery, another sad historical period where one race was dominated by another for hundreds of years. How does that not fit the definition of White supremacy?

[Siam Sam]

I couldn't give a fuck if Nazis become more angry and get their world view reinforced. There's nothing that will bring a Nazi around. There just isn't. Screw them. There is absolutely no profit in engaging one.

[Stink Fish Pot]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

I couldn't give a fuck if Nazis become more angry and get their world view reinforced. There's nothing that will bring a Nazi around. There just isn't. Screw them. There is absolutely no profit in engaging one.

More's the pity.

Is that what you consider a "win" in engaging another human being? Making a profit?

[Chimera]

Yes! We need to privatize public discourse because the government always screws things up.

Er, sorry, wrong conversation.

[Siam Sam]

Originally Posted by Stink Fish Pot

More's the pity.

Is that what you consider a "win" in engaging another human being? Making a profit?

I'm not going to engage a Nazi with anything other than a baseball bat.

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by Siam Sam

I'm not going to engage a Nazi with anything other than a baseball bat.

Indeed. They aren't simply people with a different philosophy. They're murderers. They killed eight of my grandmother's siblings, and they would have killed her too but for some very lucky circumstances.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by suranyi

Indeed. They aren't simply people with a different philosophy. They're murderers. They killed eight of my grandmother's siblings, and they would have killed her too but for some very lucky circumstances.

Those Nazis probably aren't posting on this board, because almost all of them are dead. I lost a lot of family that way also. But I'm not going to adopt their tactics against those who simply want to talk about the concept. I want to, but I'm not. Avoiding hypocrisy sucks sometimes.

[Marley23]

I didn't say anything about a specific rule against Nazism. I banned him for hate speech and being a jerk, and his specific malfunction was that he was a neonazi. We've had several threads in ATMB recently where we talked about people who make racist arguments. The mods explained that we give those posters some leeway to present their views, wrong as they are, as long as they do it in a civil manner. This guy was not doing that. I gave him a warning for an antigay slur and then saw he'd posted that white nationalist/Nazi "14/88" thing, so I banned him.

[Stink Fish Pot]

Originally Posted by suranyi

Indeed. They aren't simply people with a different philosophy. They're murderers. They killed eight of my grandmother's siblings, and they would have killed her too but for some very lucky circumstances.

Get in line. And quit acting like you are the only person who's family suffered. I know you find this impossible to believe, but the germans killed a lot more people than just your relatives.

Originally Posted by TriPolar

Those Nazis probably aren't posting on this board, because almost all of them are dead. I lost a lot of family that way also. But I'm not going to adopt their tactics against those who simply want to talk about the concept. I want to, but I'm not. Avoiding hypocrisy sucks sometimes.

Well said.

[Marley23]

We might allow people to make some pseudoscientific arguments about race in the interest of allowing open discussion, but we're not providing a forum for people to post slurs and drop their cutesy "Heil Hitler" codes. That's not promoting discussion, it's just tolerating people who are being disgusting. Preventing people from posting actual hate speech doesn't restrict discussion, it allows other people to engage in it without having to deal with people who will insult them and advocate race wars and genocide instead of making an argument.

Originally Posted by Stink Fish Pot

And quit acting like you are the only person who's family suffered.

This kind of comment doesn't do your argument any favors. When we banned New Deal Democrat, I said he posted a lot of stupid crap but never went as far as advocating racist social policies or making hateful comments about other people. This guy said there's a race war going on, called gay people "faggots," and typed out the code for "Heil Hitler." There aren't a whole hell of a lot of ways to interpret that.

[Smeghead]

Given the way that this is quickly becoming the Summer of the Racists, I have no problem with being a little more proactive than usual in this case.

[Astroboy14]

Not all instances of the number 14 have to do with Nazism. Just sayin'...

(I'm an asshole, but not a Nazi)

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Astroboy14

Not all instances of the number 14 have to do with Nazism. Just sayin'...

(I'm an asshole, but not a Nazi)

Not sure what your point is. Do you think there are instances when a poster espouses Nazi beliefs, and uses the combo "14/88" that that "14" has nothing to do with Nazism?

[Peter Morris]

Originally Posted by Astroboy14

Not all instances of the number 14 have to do with Nazism. Just sayin'...

The guy actually said "14/88"

See wiki

White nationalists sometimes combine the number 14 with 88, as in "14/88" or "1488". The 8s stand for the eighth letter of the alphabet (H), with 'HH' standing for "Heil Hitler".[3] '88' can also refer to the book 88 Precepts by David Lane,[4] and for the 88-word statement in Mein Kampf mentioned above.

!4 can mean anything, but if you know an innocent interpretation of 14/88 please share it.

[Attack from the 3rd dimension]

Originally Posted by Smeghead

Given the way that this is quickly becoming the Summer of the Racists, I have no problem with being a little more proactive than usual in this case.

We're developing our own calendar. "It was the Ides of Rape Month, in the Year of the Racists, during the reign of Tubadiva."

[Morgenstern]

Originally Posted by Attack from the 3rd dimension

We're developing our own calendar. "It was the Ides of Rape Month, in the Year of the Racists, during the reign of Tubadiva."

Do things really come in threes? If so, we've had the Winter of the Rapist, the Summer of the Racist, and, autumn of the R... (Please tell me it's not the Republicans)

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Peter Morris

The guy actually said "14/88"

See wiki...

14 can mean anything, but if you know an innocent interpretation of 14/88 please share it.

Well, I learned something. I never knew that was code for Heil Hitler. I thought 14 was a generous baker's dozen, and 88 referred to the keys on a piano. Silly me.

So which numbers can we use now without accidentally meaning something? Is there a safe list?

[Really Not All That Bright]

Stick to primes. Unless you're in a culture offended by mathematics.

[Miller]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Not sure what your point is.

Read his screen name again.

[Astroboy14]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Not sure what your point is. Do you think there are instances when a poster espouses Nazi beliefs, and uses the combo "14/88" that that "14" has nothing to do with Nazism?

No, my point is that 14 doesn't *always* denote a relationship to Nazism. IE: don't look at my username and assume that the 14 has anything to do with that.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Astroboy14

No, my point is that 14 doesn't *always* denote a relationship to Nazism. IE: don't look at my username and assume that the 14 has anything to do with that.

No one is making that argument, so I think you're safe.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Musicat

So which numbers can we use now without accidentally meaning something? Is there a safe list?

Do you think that poster "accidentally" posted "14/88"?

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Colibri

Do you think that poster "accidentally" posted "14/88"?

I didn't say he accidentally posted it. I suggested a post might accidentally have hidden meaning.

43/66. There, I posted a random number. Have I offended someone? Or do I have to check the master list first?

[Astral Rejection]

Originally Posted by Musicat

I didn't say he accidentally posted it. I suggested a post might accidentally have hidden meaning.

43/66. There, I posted a random number. Have I offended someone? Or do I have to check the master list first?

What are you getting at? The neo-nazi posted a neo-nazi saying so common it has a Wikipedia page. There's exceedingly little chance it was an innocuous comment.

[Peter Morris]

Musicat, are you serious? Do you really not see the problem here?

Look, it is conceivable that someone might use 14/88 innocently. Maybe a survey interviewed 88 people and 14/88 said yadda yadda. And that would be entirely permissible. Most people would not even spot it. There would be no problem with saying 14/88 in such a context.

But in the context of the post in question, there's only one po0ssible meaning.

[Morgenstern]

Originally Posted by Musicat

So which numbers can we use now without accidentally meaning something? Is there a safe list?

Don't use 81 either. That's shorthand for Hells Angels.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Musicat

I didn't say he accidentally posted it. I suggested a post might accidentally have hidden meaning.

Of course it can. But that isn't restricted to numbers. You could inadvertently post a word or phrase that has some significance that you are unaware of in any case. While I don't really think this is a serious question (at least I hope it's not), no, we are not going to provide a list of all possible words, phrases, numbers, or symbols that may have some additional significance to someone somewhere.

43/66. There, I posted a random number. Have I offended someone?

The chances are pretty remote. We have a poster whose username includes "88." Many years ago it was suggested to him in the Pit that he change it because of the Hitler association, even though his posts never implied any Nazi or fascist leanings. (He didn't change it; he explained that the number was assigned to him when he signed up for hotmail.) To my knowledge, the issue has not come up again.

Posting some random numbers that coincidentally might have some hidden significance is quite different than a neo-Nazi deliberately posting numbers that are known to refer to Hitler.

[Fenris]

Originally Posted by Musicat

Well, I learned something. I never knew that was code for Heil Hitler. I thought 14 was a generous baker's dozen, and 88 referred to the keys on a piano. Silly me.

So which numbers can we use now without accidentally meaning something? Is there a safe list?

I assume you're kidding because your argument is retarded.

It's akin to saying "What? 'Cunt' isn't allowed here? So which letters can we now use without accidentally meaning something? Is there a safe list?

[kayaker]

Nazis aren't all bad. Hell, a nazi killed Hitler, right?

[Musicat]

Originally Posted by Colibri

The chances are pretty remote. We have a poster whose username includes "88." Many years ago it was suggested to him in the Pit that he change it because of the Hitler association, even though his posts never implied any Nazi or fascist leanings.

Maybe the harm is in the eye of the beholder. To me, "88" is code for, in Amateur Radio Ham lingo, "hugs and kisses."

So let me go out on a limb here and say "73's, y'all, and chill."