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  #1  
Old 08-17-2012, 12:13 AM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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Harry Dresden fans: Cold Days release date announced! [SPOILERS]

I know there's a fair number of fans on the board, so I thought I'd give a heads up; it's been announced for November 27th.
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  #2  
Old 08-17-2012, 12:34 AM
Finagle Finagle is offline
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That's a lot sooner than I expected it -- I don't even think Butcher started writing it until this year. Hope he didn't rush it -- the last couple have been kind of, I dunno, perfunctory. And we're in the middle, Empire Strikes Back, part of the story arc, so they've been kind of depressing as well.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:04 AM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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AARRGGHH! FINALLY!

/I can quit anytime I want.
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  #4  
Old 08-17-2012, 01:09 AM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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He gets no more money from me upfront. Not after the steaming pile of shit that Ghost Story was.

Here's last years discussion of it: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...d.php?t=617193
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  #5  
Old 08-17-2012, 01:52 AM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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That's a lot sooner than I expected it -- I don't even think Butcher started writing it until this year. Hope he didn't rush it -- the last couple have been kind of, I dunno, perfunctory. And we're in the middle, Empire Strikes Back, part of the story arc, so they've been kind of depressing as well.
I'm pretty sure he's been working on it since last year. I think the release date was supposed to be in April or May, like Ghost Story was last year, but it was pushed back so he could do more work on it. I mean, I'm pretty sure he knows there's folks with opinions like Snowboarder Bo's, so one can hope he's making sure he has his shit straight.

Personally, for me, this is his make-or-break novel. I'll grant him some leeway with Changes and Ghost Story, as it was clearly a two-part story and he was clearly trying to do something epic and different. I didn't even think they were all that bad, but I can see why others would. Cold Days will determine whether he's permanently departing from the style of the first 11 books or if he's returning to form.

Last edited by Bosstone; 08-17-2012 at 01:54 AM..
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  #6  
Old 08-17-2012, 03:05 AM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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I hated on Ghost Story when it first came out, but reread & reassessed it months later. Yeah, it departs from the formula we all know and love, but I think something like this was NEEDED. What happened in Changes, if you stop and remember everything from the big battle on, was fucking horrific. No sane person should have come out of that without mental wounds, and as we saw in GS, they didn't. Butcher evidently thought it was necessary to step out of the formula for a book and just deal with that.

Molly, in particular, has been said to be sensitive to the pain and suffering of others, and when you recall what she saw in that battle, the fact that she nearly died, and what she did to Harry, she SHOULD have been just about broken. Murphy's strong, but that battle, losing Harry and her job should have hit her hard, and it did. Harry having to personally kill Susan, the woman he loved, to save his daughter and defeat the Red Court is just all kinds of fucked up.

One of the things about the Dresden Files that I (and I assume others) love, is that there is no reset button. Circumstances and relationships change. Well, in Changes, Harry moved beyond simply defeating the Big Bad. He sold his soul to Mab and involved/endangered everyone he loved in an epically huge, suicidal assault that killed every single Red Court vampire in existence (probably) and changed the course of the world. If we're going to keep believing these characters are human, they're not going to bounce back from that easily.

I've not written a novel, but I can't imagine dealing with all that within the context of the usual Dresden Files formula. Or maybe I have a literary form of Stockholm Syndrome: this book was forced upon me in the midst of a series I love, and after a year of me having to deal with it just BEING THERE, all un-Dresden-Files-like, I'm starting to love Big Brother. At any rate, I hope the detour that was Ghost Story is done, and we get a payoff for all that work we and Butcher put in.
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Old 08-17-2012, 03:49 AM
Odesio Odesio is offline
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I hated on Ghost Story when it first came out, but reread & reassessed it months later. Yeah, it departs from the formula we all know and love, but I think something like this was NEEDED.
A departure from formula is fine just so long as you keep the story moving forward. The entirety of what had been happening to the secondary characters in Ghost Story could have been summarized. In short, the entire book just wasn't necessary.

Last edited by Odesio; 08-17-2012 at 03:49 AM..
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:14 AM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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A departure from formula is fine just so long as you keep the story moving forward. The entirety of what had been happening to the secondary characters in Ghost Story could have been summarized. In short, the entire book just wasn't necessary.
I love some of those 'secondary' characters, and for that matter, so does Harry. Anyway, the purpose of the book was to show just how much his actions affected those close to him, and the world in general. It was arguably ENTIRELY about Harry, and his coming to understand the ramifications of his actions, and how to wield his growing power. Think of it like the ghost of Christmas present showing Harry the error of his ways.

I won't deny this book was a sudden turn that none of us expected, and a really dark one at that. Once again, I hope there's a payoff for the investment of time and the trust we placed in Butcher for the detour. He's done pretty well by us in the past, but it looks like the series is a lot more ambitious than I thought going in. I should've seen that coming though, after reading his Codex Alera series. That was pretty ambitious stuff, and I very much enjoyed it, even though I'm not at all a big fantasy-fiction guy.
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  #9  
Old 08-17-2012, 09:18 AM
turner turner is offline
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I hated on Ghost Story when it first came out, but reread & reassessed it months later. Yeah, it departs from the formula we all know and love, but I think something like this was NEEDED. What happened in Changes, if you stop and remember everything from the big battle on, was fucking horrific. No sane person should have come out of that without mental wounds, and as we saw in GS, they didn't. Butcher evidently thought it was necessary to step out of the formula for a book and just deal with that.

Molly, in particular, has been said to be sensitive to the pain and suffering of others, and when you recall what she saw in that battle, the fact that she nearly died, and what she did to Harry, she SHOULD have been just about broken. Murphy's strong, but that battle, losing Harry and her job should have hit her hard, and it did. Harry having to personally kill Susan, the woman he loved, to save his daughter and defeat the Red Court is just all kinds of fucked up.

One of the things about the Dresden Files that I (and I assume others) love, is that there is no reset button. Circumstances and relationships change. Well, in Changes, Harry moved beyond simply defeating the Big Bad. He sold his soul to Mab and involved/endangered everyone he loved in an epically huge, suicidal assault that killed every single Red Court vampire in existence (probably) and changed the course of the world. If we're going to keep believing these characters are human, they're not going to bounce back from that easily.
.
This.
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  #10  
Old 08-17-2012, 09:35 AM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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The main problem I had with Changes AND Ghost Story was that the whole premise on which it was based was SO. FUCKING. BANAL. Harry fucking Dresden slips and falls and breaks his fucking back helping a fucking neighbor? SERIOUSLY? THAT'S IT?
That was so incredibly lame and such a Deus Ex Machina reason for him to have to go crawling (almost literally) to Queen Mab. He lost me right there and Ghost Story just cemented it.
For the first time, I am going to go to the store and read the end of the next book before I buy it, and if I don't like where he's taken it, I won't be buying it or reading any more of the Dresden books.
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  #11  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:20 AM
Taomist Taomist is offline
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The main problem I had with Changes AND Ghost Story was that the whole premise on which it was based was SO. FUCKING. BANAL. Harry fucking Dresden slips and falls and breaks his fucking back helping a fucking neighbor? SERIOUSLY? THAT'S IT?
That was so incredibly lame and such a Deus Ex Machina reason for him to have to go crawling (almost literally) to Queen Mab. He lost me right there and Ghost Story just cemented it.
For the first time, I am going to go to the store and read the end of the next book before I buy it, and if I don't like where he's taken it, I won't be buying it or reading any more of the Dresden books.
This is a whoosh, right?


Looking forward to November! Will have to reread Ghost Story in the meantime, as even after going through the plot summaries online I have no idea what Rikwriter is talking about.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:44 AM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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This is a whoosh, right?


Looking forward to November! Will have to reread Ghost Story in the meantime, as even after going through the plot summaries online I have no idea what Rikwriter is talking about.
Seriously? You don't recall the fire at his apartment building, and him falling off the ladder? All the fucking dangerous situations and monsters and he's brought low at a key moment by falling off a fucking ladder? If he hadn't broken his back and been paralyzed by that fall, he wouldn't have had to become Mab's knight or have himself assasinated. It was a very banal and out-of-nowhere event that pissed me off.

Last edited by RikWriter; 08-17-2012 at 11:45 AM..
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  #13  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:47 AM
Simplicio Simplicio is offline
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Eh, I liked it. Just because your a wizard doesn't mean your immune to mundane dangers.
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  #14  
Old 08-17-2012, 11:54 AM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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Eh, I liked it. Just because your a wizard doesn't mean your immune to mundane dangers.
You're reading a book about a wizard who has faced demons, vampires, monsters from other dimensions, Fairy Queens and a whole host of other world-threatening dangers and in the middle of his biggest challenge, he falls of a ladder and breaks his back?
Sorry, that's poor writing. It's short-changing your readers, it's pulling shit out of your ass and pretending it smells like roses.
Yes, bad shit happens in real life. This book series IS NOT real life. I don't read The Dresden Files for a slice-of-life regular guy story. I don't WANT to read about how Harry gets killed by a home invader because he had diarreah and was stuck in the can. If Butcher wanted Harry helpless and broken and forced to take Mab's offer, there were sooo many better ways to make it happen.
This was cheap.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:21 PM
Simplicio Simplicio is offline
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Well, its not like it was some random arson or something. His office was firebombed by vampires as part of the central plot. But I don't have any problem with the character in a fantasy novel being vulnerable to mundane dangers. I rather like it.

(Plus his back was fixed like five pages later. My only actual complaint about the last two books is despite calling it "Changes", most of the changes didn't actually make that much of a difference.)
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2012, 12:57 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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Even tho it's in my post in the Ghost Story thread, I just want to be perfectly clear: I loved Changes. I think it's a terrific book, and a worthy addition to the Dresden Files.

But Ghost Story was a pile of fetid shit.
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  #17  
Old 08-17-2012, 01:23 PM
Musky Moon Musky Moon is offline
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I was surprised at the reactions when Ghost Story came out and I see they haven't really changed.

I was getting tired of the series once I read Changes. I thought the Dresden formula was getting old and Harry was becoming over-powered. I was definitely hoping for him to be nerfed. Ghost Story reenergized me. I found a whole new respect for Butcher then. It forced Harry to solve his problem without all the overpowered nonsense and use his wits. Wits and humor were the most important characteristics of Harry.

Plus I cried when he saw Mouse again. I"m a sucker for a "boy and his dog" moment.

Last edited by Musky Moon; 08-17-2012 at 01:24 PM..
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  #18  
Old 08-17-2012, 01:31 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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Well, its not like it was some random arson or something. His office was firebombed by vampires as part of the central plot. But I don't have any problem with the character in a fantasy novel being vulnerable to mundane dangers. I rather like it.

(Plus his back was fixed like five pages later. My only actual complaint about the last two books is despite calling it "Changes", most of the changes didn't actually make that much of a difference.)
My complaint wasn't merely that he got injured, it was the banality of the whole scene...and not just some random scene that the writer had to slog through to get to the end, but a scene which wound up being the turning point. If he doesn't break his back, he's not forced to give in to Mab. if he is not forced to give in to Mab, he doesn't have to arrange for someone to kill him. And the fact that he hired someone to kill him is what made that whole slab of dreck Ghost Story possible. Admittedly, Butcher could have done much better even given the circumstances of the corner into which he had painted himself, but the fact was he DID write himself into that corner, and just like Peter Hamilton in the Night's Dawn trilogy, he didn't have a good way out of it.
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2012, 01:42 PM
inedible knapsack inedible knapsack is offline
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Even tho it's in my post in the Ghost Story thread, I just want to be perfectly clear: I loved Changes. I think it's a terrific book, and a worthy addition to the Dresden Files.

But Ghost Story was a pile of fetid shit.
I agree with this. I'm glad I'm not the only person who hated GS. My friends were mystified when I said I hated it.

I'll gladly shell out the cash for the next one, though. Any author who cranks out books like Butcher is bound to have a stinker now and again, and I knew he'd eventually have somebody become a ghost, which I dreaded it because I knew it would be awful. Sure enough, he not only made a character a ghost, he made Harry a ghost.

Looking forward to seeing what Harry can do now with this new powers.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:47 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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Changes was all about the odds catching up to Harry.

For 10+ years he managed to keep the Blue Beetle running despite mold demons, monkey demons, zombies, Denarians, outfit hitters, etc. until finally a monster was in a position to crush it.

His home was always relatively safe from magical or physical assault, but two or three times throughout the series he points out in narration that setting fire to his house is pretty much the best way to attack him. The Eebs were simply the first villains to actually do it; had Grevane in Dead Beat or Binder in Turn Coat done it, he might have broken his back a lot sooner.

There's another layer to it. We've been shown throughout the series that God has a Plan for Harry. We've seen the way He works, in coincidences and small events building up to something happening in the way it needs to. In Small Favor, which I'm rereading now, Sanya winds up in Chicago even before they knew the Denarians were in town because the snowstorm closed the airport. How mundane and non-supernatural is that (ignoring Mab's influence on the weather)? Yet it allowed Sanya to be in town to help combat the Denarians. I can well believe that God needed Harry in Mab's service, but due to Harry's superhuman stubbornness he would never give in to Mab until there was literally no alternative. So, working in His usual style, Harry fell. Uriel painted it as a consequence of Harry's own choice to climb the ladder, which is true enough, but there's nothing that says the ladder couldn't have been arranged to be just slippery enough for someone in Harry's condition to fall off if he were to stand on it.

This is all entirely supposition, but it's also consistent with the characters and the Powers we've seen in action. I think dismissing it as banal or mundane is a disservice to Butcher's writing.
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  #21  
Old 08-17-2012, 04:54 PM
Malleus, Incus, Stapes! Malleus, Incus, Stapes! is offline
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Yay!! I've been waiting for CD a while now.
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2012, 05:06 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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Changes was all about the odds catching up to Harry.

For 10+ years he managed to keep the Blue Beetle running despite mold demons, monkey demons, zombies, Denarians, outfit hitters, etc. until finally a monster was in a position to crush it.

His home was always relatively safe from magical or physical assault, but two or three times throughout the series he points out in narration that setting fire to his house is pretty much the best way to attack him. The Eebs were simply the first villains to actually do it; had Grevane in Dead Beat or Binder in Turn Coat done it, he might have broken his back a lot sooner.

There's another layer to it. We've been shown throughout the series that God has a Plan for Harry. We've seen the way He works, in coincidences and small events building up to something happening in the way it needs to. In Small Favor, which I'm rereading now, Sanya winds up in Chicago even before they knew the Denarians were in town because the snowstorm closed the airport. How mundane and non-supernatural is that (ignoring Mab's influence on the weather)? Yet it allowed Sanya to be in town to help combat the Denarians. I can well believe that God needed Harry in Mab's service, but due to Harry's superhuman stubbornness he would never give in to Mab until there was literally no alternative. So, working in His usual style, Harry fell. Uriel painted it as a consequence of Harry's own choice to climb the ladder, which is true enough, but there's nothing that says the ladder couldn't have been arranged to be just slippery enough for someone in Harry's condition to fall off if he were to stand on it.

This is all entirely supposition, but it's also consistent with the characters and the Powers we've seen in action. I think dismissing it as banal or mundane is a disservice to Butcher's writing.
We'll see when the next book comes out. I personally think Ghost Story was a disservice to Butcher's writing.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2012, 05:10 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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We'll see when the next book comes out. I personally think Ghost Story was a disservice to Butcher's writing.
Maybe. I haven't read it more than once myself, although I've gone over the first 12 more times than I can count. Mainly that's because I primarily listen to them as audiobooks, and they couldn't get James Marsters to do Ghost Story. I don't even want to listen to the guy they did get.
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Old 08-17-2012, 05:59 PM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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You're reading a book about a wizard who has faced demons, vampires, monsters from other dimensions, Fairy Queens and a whole host of other world-threatening dangers and in the middle of his biggest challenge, he falls of a ladder and breaks his back?
Sorry, that's poor writing. It's short-changing your readers, it's pulling shit out of your ass and pretending it smells like roses.

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The main problem I had with Changes AND Ghost Story was that the whole premise on which it was based was SO. FUCKING. BANAL. Harry fucking Dresden slips and falls and breaks his fucking back helping a fucking neighbor? SERIOUSLY? THAT'S IT?
That was so incredibly lame and such a Deus Ex Machina reason for him to have to go crawling (almost literally) to Queen Mab. He lost me right there and Ghost Story just cemented it.
I'm kind of confused. You call yourself RikWRITER, so I have to assume you are a writer, or fancy yourself one. Maybe you could explain to me how a fire-bombing attack, which was foreshadowed more than once in this series, is a Deus Ex Machina. How is Harry's concern for his landlady and his fellow tenants, which, again, was shown and mentioned many times, a Deus Ex Machina? Because it seems to me it's not at all.

I can only conclude that you consider a fire-bombing to be a close cousin to a barbeque, and that you're vastly underestimating the danger of being the target of one. Do you think of it like he slipped and fell shoveling the snow off the sidewalk? Also, allow me to post a snippet of the relevant text:

Quote:
"Something, maybe the little propane tank on Mrs. Spunkelcrief's grill, exploded with a noise like a dinosaur-sized watermelon hitting the ground. The concussion knocked Mrs. S down - and kicked the bottom of the ladder out from under me."
So he didn't FALL from a ladder, but instead was the victim of an explosion knocking the ladder out from under him. Rather more action-hero-ish, no?

Interestingly, you didn't complain when approximately 5 paragraphs later, Sanya, the actual, PROFESSIONAL Deus Ex Machina showed up to save the day.
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  #25  
Old 08-17-2012, 07:58 PM
Gukumatz Gukumatz is offline
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Whoo! Way looking forward to it. I kinda envy my girlfriend, who when she started this summer had 11 books all lined up and ready to read while I've had year-long breaks between pretty much every single one. I still get way too excited for a new one, though.

And I also hope he improves on Ghost Story - it was a good book, but kinda feels like a loading screen for Act 2. "Let's pause the plot and review the status" kind of thing. I hope he just shifts into gear in Cold Days and doesn't do the gradual buildup. We've had Harry taken away; now we want him back.

(And since Republic of Thives, the Daylight War and A Memory of Light have all been pushed back to 2013, I was drearing a long draught of fantasy releases. And Rothfuss and Martin are still mum about their next books, so I'm kind of reaching, having just reread all of Glen Cook and Heinlein.)
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:51 PM
C K Dexter Haven C K Dexter Haven is offline
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I was surprised at the reactions when Ghost Story came out and I see they haven't really changed.

I was getting tired of the series once I read Changes. I thought the Dresden formula was getting old ...
I felt the opposite. I liked the Dresden "formula." Lots of authors with series of books about the hero stick to their "formula" and do very well -- think of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe, say. Or, perhaps more analogous, the stories of Raymond Chandler. They manage to maintain my interest quite well. I thought GHOST STORY was just... dumb.

I think I'll get the new one from the library. I have all the prior books in hardcover editions, but I don't know that I want to continue spending money.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:53 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
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Seriously? You don't recall the fire at his apartment building, and him falling off the ladder? All the fucking dangerous situations and monsters and he's brought low at a key moment by falling off a fucking ladder? If he hadn't broken his back and been paralyzed by that fall, he wouldn't have had to become Mab's knight or have himself assasinated. It was a very banal and out-of-nowhere event that pissed me off.
He's human. Banal shit happens to us.
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  #28  
Old 08-17-2012, 10:19 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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I'm kind of confused.

Apparently. I am not going to debate the use of the term deus ex machina with you. You don't agree with my criticisms, and that's fine. No one said you have to.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:20 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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He's human. Banal shit happens to us.
He's a fictional character in a book about wizards and supernatural menaces. I don't want to read about banal shit happening to him and I blame the writer when I do.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:04 PM
Musky Moon Musky Moon is offline
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I felt the opposite. I liked the Dresden "formula." Lots of authors with series of books about the hero stick to their "formula" and do very well -- think of Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe, say. Or, perhaps more analogous, the stories of Raymond Chandler. They manage to maintain my interest quite well. I thought GHOST STORY was just... dumb.

I think I'll get the new one from the library. I have all the prior books in hardcover editions, but I don't know that I want to continue spending money.
I hear you. In general I agree with you. In the this case, though, I was ready for Butcher to throw a wrench in the works. Even if for a moment. My major gripe was more about the over-powered Harry, coupled with the formula. I'm glad he was nerfed, even if for one book.

That aside, I'm most interested in seeing the fallout with Molly. There's been plenty of foreshadowing of her going batty, because of her power. It's shades of Harry's uncle. It would be interesting for the apprentice of a batshit evil wizard to then deal with a his own apprentice turning into a batshit evil wizard. I don't know if Butcher will go there, but it's not out of the question.
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Old 08-18-2012, 01:12 AM
ouryL ouryL is offline
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I read both then and then listened to the Audible versions. These two books work are a better listen then they are a read.
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  #32  
Old 08-18-2012, 02:37 AM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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Apparently. I am not going to debate the use of the term deus ex machina with you. You don't agree with my criticisms, and that's fine. No one said you have to.
I thought that perhaps you could explain it to me, but I understand your position and respect it. I don't want to hammer away at the subject like so often happens in threads like this - hopefully I haven't already done that. Here's hoping we both enjoy the next book.
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Old 08-18-2012, 06:06 AM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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I thought that perhaps you could explain it to me, but I understand your position and respect it. I don't want to hammer away at the subject like so often happens in threads like this - hopefully I haven't already done that. Here's hoping we both enjoy the next book.

I probably misused the term, strictly speaking and I knew that when I used it, I was trying to convey just how out of left field I felt him breaking his back in that manner felt to me. Yes, the firebombing was foreshadowed, and I expected him to lose his home...but it seemed very out-of-the-blue when he fell off the ladder and happened to break his back and get paralyzed.
Not that he was injured badly, but how it happened. It felt cheap to me, something done for pure shock value.
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Old 08-18-2012, 07:20 AM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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I probably misused the term, strictly speaking and I knew that when I used it, I was trying to convey just how out of left field I felt him breaking his back in that manner felt to me. Yes, the firebombing was foreshadowed, and I expected him to lose his home...but it seemed very out-of-the-blue when he fell off the ladder and happened to break his back and get paralyzed.
Not that he was injured badly, but how it happened. It felt cheap to me, something done for pure shock value.
That I get. He has faced down so many dangerous creatures and escaped numerous attempts on his life, so I guess to you, falling off a ladder is rather the equivalent of a household accident, even if a firebombing is involved. Comparatively, I suppose it it. Kind of like finding out Davy Crockett, rather than dying with a pile of enemy bodies around him at the Alamo, had slipped and hit his head in the tub the night before. An ignominious end to a heroic figure.

Myself, I never saw Harry as all that unbreakable. He rather strikes me as Jim Rockford, if he were a wizard. Jim got all beat to hell many times, but came out on top at the end. Different expectations, I suppose, color our respective opinions.
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  #35  
Old 08-18-2012, 07:23 AM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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Interesting comment from Butcher on his forum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Butcher
Once the revision of COLD DAYS is done, I will be writing the first book of my Steampunk series, which is called The Cinder Spires at the moment. The first book, (working title of 'The Aeronaut's Windlass') should be around the length of the first Alera book, and I'm planning to get it done by year's end, AT WHICH POINT I will then begin the next Dresden novel.
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  #36  
Old 08-18-2012, 07:38 AM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
Interesting comment from Butcher on his forum:
Well, that's both good news and bad news. I guess it balances out to just, "news."

On the one hand, hey, new Butcher series! On the other hand, it's something to delay new Dresden Files books.
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  #37  
Old 08-18-2012, 12:04 PM
ShadowNinja4d4 ShadowNinja4d4 is offline
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Originally Posted by RikWriter View Post
You're reading a book about a wizard who has faced demons, vampires, monsters from other dimensions, Fairy Queens and a whole host of other world-threatening dangers and in the middle of his biggest challenge, he falls of a ladder and breaks his back?
Sorry, that's poor writing. It's short-changing your readers, it's pulling shit out of your ass and pretending it smells like roses.
Yes, bad shit happens in real life. This book series IS NOT real life. I don't read The Dresden Files for a slice-of-life regular guy story. I don't WANT to read about how Harry gets killed by a home invader because he had diarreah and was stuck in the can. If Butcher wanted Harry helpless and broken and forced to take Mab's offer, there were sooo many better ways to make it happen.
This was cheap.
....I'm sorry, are you the author of this story? No? Then kindly stop talking about things you don't understand.

Harry survived that, ALL of that, because he had his magic taking some of the hurt for him...its actually perfectly believable, if a bit of a stretch, that he fell off a ladder and broke his spine...Uriel told him his back could have recovered on its own, him being a Wizard and all.

I have read all of the books now at least twice, some of them 3 times...each time I have never noticed a formula to the story...Why? Probably because I was kind of busy doing what I was supposed to be doing and ENJOYING the series...

I actually thought it added depth to the story personally. Surviving all of that only to be crippled by something mundane? Did you even pay attention to the 100 billion times Harry reiterated that he was JUST as fragile, just as fallible, as a normal human being? That he was, given the wizardly stereotype, a glass cannon?

Harry made it very clear that physically speaking he wasn't something super human...Its perfectly logical for something ordinary to kill him. Picture all those close calls Harry had with perfectly Vanilla mortals...except that Harry didn't have his shield bracelet.

Most likely, he would have died...in every single instance Harry saved himself with defensive magic. Or how about when he was shot at by Madrigal Raith? Imagine Harry DIDN'T have a spell-enforced Duster...he would have been bits of meat floating in the lake and the White Court would have started weeding out the magically inclined.

Harry was protected from each and every one of those situations because he went in prepared...because he had his magic ready, because he had a defense in mind. When Harry broke his back it was trying to save his elderly neighbors...it was Harry Dresden being "Harry Fucking Dresden" and trying to HELP people. Nothing more than a odd twist of fate crippled him...it was Butcher showing us all exactly how vulnerable and human Harry is.

He might have come out with a few bruises and a concussion if he were in perfect health...he wasn't...he was exhausted, he was limping, he didn't have a single spell left in him, thus the reason why he used his rings to open the way into his Land Ladies apartment.


If the fire happened when Harry was in perfect health, with the full of his power in tact...he would have come out fine...but he didn't.

The whole idea of Changes, the whole POINT...was to show that the world was about to change...the Fomor, a totally new power was about to surface...the stage had to be set. Harry lost everything, even his life to set the stage for the results of his actions.

Ghost Story was as much for our benefit as Harry's, it was to spell out everything that occurred as a result of the choices he made...the "Changes" he enacted. The world became what it was as a result of his actions.


There is nothing wrong with anything in that story, if you back up and look at the entire picture. Once you look at the whole thing, see exactly how big it all is, see how everything played out...it doesn't make sense for it to play out any other way.

Here's food for thought, what else happened at Bianca's party that we have yet to see the results of? What was the knife given to Lea? What gift pleased that Dragon, what were the actions of Cowl and Kumori that night? What giant wheels are still turning in the background that we haven't had a chance to even glimpse yet? Think about that before you quit the Dresden Files...
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  #38  
Old 08-18-2012, 12:47 PM
RikWriter RikWriter is offline
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....I'm sorry, are you the author of this story? No? Then kindly stop talking about things you don't understand.
No, I think I'll talk about anything I damn well please. Unless you run this message board, it's probably quite futile to tell other people what they can and can't discuss here.
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  #39  
Old 08-18-2012, 02:09 PM
Bosstone Bosstone is offline
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....I'm sorry, are you the author of this story? No? Then kindly stop talking about things you don't understand.
Yeah, man, I agree with all the rest of your post but this was unnecessarily harsh.
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  #40  
Old 08-18-2012, 02:12 PM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
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Gadzooks! It looks like it's not just June or July, but all of Summer 2012 that's going to go down in the annals of SDMB history!
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  #41  
Old 08-18-2012, 11:05 PM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Gadzooks! It looks like it's not just June or July, but all of Summer 2012 that's going to go down in the annals of SDMB history!
What? What I miss in June & July? What'd I miss? Ack! I'm right here and still miss all the fun!
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2012, 12:58 PM
Misnomer Misnomer is offline
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Originally Posted by Face Intentionally Left Blank View Post
AARRGGHH! FINALLY!

/I can quit anytime I want.
This.
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  #43  
Old 08-21-2012, 03:12 PM
Lasciel Lasciel is offline
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Originally Posted by ShadowNinja4d4 View Post
....I'm sorry, are you the author of this story? No? Then kindly stop talking about things you don't understand.

(massive snippage)

Here's food for thought, what else happened at Bianca's party that we have yet to see the results of? What was the knife given to Lea? What gift pleased that Dragon, what were the actions of Cowl and Kumori that night? What giant wheels are still turning in the background that we haven't had a chance to even glimpse yet? Think about that before you quit the Dresden Files...
Dude. We hear you - we're in this thread because we've read (and mostly liked) the books. No one here is calling themselves Jim Butcher, and we're all just indulging in the great pastime of second-guessing and armchair-quarterbacking the series that we're mostly looking forward to continuing.

I hear yoga is very calming. Meditation perhaps?

Breathe, man... breathe!

Dear god, what is in our water this summer!
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2012, 03:19 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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No one here is calling themselves Jim Butcher, <snip>
For the curious, he actually did post here on the SDMB once.
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  #45  
Old 08-21-2012, 05:58 PM
Malleus, Incus, Stapes! Malleus, Incus, Stapes! is offline
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Cool.
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  #46  
Old 08-24-2012, 09:22 PM
elbeas elbeas is offline
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falling from a ladder

"No matter how subtle the sorcerer, a knife between the ribs will seriously cramp his style".
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  #47  
Old 08-24-2012, 11:05 PM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elbeas View Post
"No matter how subtle the sorcerer, a knife between the ribs will seriously cramp his style".
Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series. Great stuff.
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  #48  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:04 AM
Misnomer Misnomer is offline
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Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos series. Great stuff.
I looked that up, and it sounds interesting, but apparently (according to Wikipedia) the series can be approached in either publication order or chronological order. I'm one of those people who likes to start at the beginning: can/should I read the books in publication order, meaning that I'd start with Jhereg (as opposed to starting with Taltos)?
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  #49  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:15 AM
Der Trihs Der Trihs is online now
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Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
I looked that up, and it sounds interesting, but apparently (according to Wikipedia) the series can be approached in either publication order or chronological order. I'm one of those people who likes to start at the beginning: can/should I read the books in publication order, meaning that I'd start with Jhereg (as opposed to starting with Taltos)?
I'd probably start with Jhereg; I did and it worked out fine.
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  #50  
Old 08-26-2012, 12:56 AM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Der Trihs View Post
For the curious, he actually did post here on the SDMB once.
Yep. And Jim show up and discusses things with the Amazon community too. He even apologizes for some things, like the e-books pricing. He takes his fans seriously, listens to them. Unlike many other fantasy authors.

Ghost Story was far from my fave. But it was needed and important. Yes, Jim could have just kept churning out the same kind of story book after book. The kind of story we know and love. But it was time for a shakeup.
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