Battle Ground - Dresden Files (Open spoilers)

Cafe Society
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WARNING: This thread contains open spoilers

Thread for discussion of the latest Dresden Files book, Battle Ground

Downloaded my copy this morning and pretty much read it straight through. Thought Peace Talks was a little tentative and a bit meh, but Battle Ground makes up for it and more. Major resetting of Harry’s world; didn’t see any of that coming.

I was a little worried as there was a big continuity error fairly early in the book: the Erlking is shown as a vassal of Mab, whereas when he first appeared he was described as the most powerful of the Wildfae (although thinking about it maybe the continuity error was in Cold Days, since I think the Erlking was at Harry’s “birthday party”).

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The WOJs (Word of Jim) on the Erlking do seem to be a bit contradictory. While the Erlking is Wyld Fae, his roots are in Summer. However, he is also described as being a part of the Winter Court. Undoubtedly there are nuances that some of us fans are missing.

One of my favorite bits was pretty much a throwaway. In Chapter 9 when Harry starts to evacuate his old neighbors to the castle, one neighbor places Harry as the guy with the dog, and mentions Mouse by name. Harry is pretty sure never introduced the dog and grouses to himself, “Damned pooch is more of a people person than I’ll ever be.”

People I was happy to see survive were McCoy, Ramirez, the Alphas, and the Knights of the Cross. Murphy’s death has been expected by fandom for a while, it seems. The deaths of Wild Bill and Yoshimo were probably inevitable; the White Council was bound to take some hits. Did Cristo survive - he was pretty seriously hurt at one point, wasn’t he? And does anyone else think we’ll see Chandler again?

The biggest surprise to me was how Mab decided to cement an alliance between Winter and the White Court of Vampires. Did not see that coming! Someone on another board thought Harry and Lara getting together has been foreshadowed since Lara was introduced, but I doubt anyone actually expected a marriage.

Now that Harry has the castle and has gotten his lab back, I hope he gets Bob back, as well.

All in all, I enjoyed the book very much.

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I enjoyed it very much as well–much more than I liked Peace Talks, which definitely seemed to be half a book.

My favorite part (I literally cheered) was when Ethniu broke Marcone’s neck and Harry thought he was dead, and then he pulled himself back together and got up, only to reveal that he was a Denarian. Marcone is my favorite character in the series, and I was very much afraid he was about to get killed off. I should have known better!

I really wanted to see Rudolph get his due, though. If we don’t get to see that in an upcoming book, I will be angry.

Also, I thought the whole “conjuritis” thing didn’t have a good payoff, unless he’s planning to use it going forward in later books.

On to the next one!

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My favorite “throwaway” was Rawlins, two weeks to retirement, muttering “gonna die of cliche poisoning…”

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Learning to control it and conjure an anvil to flatten the Black Court vampire was pretty useful though.

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I suppose, but that’s an awful lot of setup for something that didn’t (IMO) amount to that much. Kind of like a bad shaggy dog story. I really hope we get more about it in the next book(s), including why he’s got it in the first place. Did he catch it from Maggie?

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I think it’s 95% comic relief, a silly mirror of the “starborn” status - everybody with any seniority knows about it but him. I suspect the anvil is the last we see of it.

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Okay, I finally finished the book. Hence the hour of this post. Finally able to stop avoiding these discussions around the internet like the plague.

Some quick thoughts. I keep seeing a lot of people comparing this to Peace Talks. That doesn’t make sense to me. We knew PT was the first half of a book going in. Of course it feels incomplete. There were elements of it that I found a little clunky, e.g. corner hounds and pretty much all of McCoy’s actions, but it’s not a “book”. Battle Ground isn’t one either. There’s obviously no Act I in this book, it’s all a giant Act III. But since that’s usually the fun part people don’t complain when you leave out the preamble. Hopefully in due time people start talking about PT/BG as a single book, which they are, and measure it that way. A bunch of book rankings with PT at the bottom will just be silly.

Here’s my big theory for what happens next, and I think there’s some solid foreshadowing for it so I’m probably not some soothsayer here. Harry is gonna start up his own “Council”. Not sure if we see it bloom in the next book or not, but I think this is where the whole kicked out of the White Council leads to. He’ll rally a bunch of “humanists” who have power together in the former Brighter Future Society to either protect the city or maybe even to speak for all of the vanilla mortals out there. He’ll garner alliances like Marcone did with Gard and Mab. He’ll prepare people. He’ll pull together the Paranetters. He’ll probably even draw in a bunch of jaded WC wizards once the whole Black Council thing blows up properly. Maybe he even gets loose from Mab and becomes a signatory of the accords himself eventually.

There’s a fair bit of foreshadowing that one of the next couple books will be the crusade to take vengeance on Drakul, maybe resulting in the return of Chandler. Also have to assume Ramirez will figure into it as well, though tough to see how that plays out. He’s shaping up to be a right asshole. I find it a little ironic that he’s basically saying the same things that Murphy said in the early books, that him keeping secrets makes him an enemy and responsible, which was absurd then and now. Not my favorite Butcher trope if I must say so.

A few questions I have that are probably silly or things that I’ve just forgotten.

  1. Where the heck was the Merlin through all of this? I figure Rashid is holding down the fort at the gates, but where was the rest of the WC? They had time for a vote but not to take on a Titan?

  2. How hurt do we think some of these folks are? Sounded like Listens to Wind broke his back and McCoy shattered his pelvis. Chances are neither guy is walking around much going forward, yet McCoy is still assumed to be able to execute Harry if needed. Kind weird I think. What about Butters and Sanya, either guy take permanent damage?

  3. Was it weird that all the immortals basically got one-shotted? Mab, Titania, Erlking, Odin all get thumped and are never again heard from until the battle’s over? Felt a little off to me considering how powerful they are supposed to be.

  4. Where in the living fuck is Mister? This needs to be answered post haste.

  5. The last scene at Demonreach was kind of confusing. Harry seemed to have everything well plotted out. He sends the boat to shore with Nemesis on it and bails out over the stern. He calls up Demonreach and tells him to grab her. The next thing we know Harry is unconscious for how long? How did Nemesis get away? Did Harry just spring the trap too soon or did she overmatch Alfred? I’m stumped.

  6. Safe to assume everyone knows that Marcone is a Denarian? Or is Harry hanging onto that info? Clearly Mab is okay working with Nicodrmus under certain circumstances but I have a feeling that he wouldn’t be welcome into the Accords. But Namshiel gets to be a boss?

  7. Will we end up seeing a Nicodemus v. Marcone battle royale? I’m assuming that Marcone took up the coin on his own and it wasn’t forced on him by Nic, and we’ve seen that Denarians don’t really get along all the time. Seems like neither guy will tolerate competition and Marcone will have an axe to grind with him.

  8. We’ve encountered 3 Walkers now. He Who Walks Behind, He Who Walks Before and He Who Walks Beside. Are there more? What are their powers? They are clearly linked to the star born.

  9. What are the Stars and Stones? We had both Drakul and Listens-to-Wind hinting at some other big secret conspiracy, but there’s not much there yet.

  10. McCoy lost his shit about Thomas being too close to Harry and ultimately finding out he’s his grandson too. Harry marrying Lara ain’t going to help that relationship any.

Anyways. I’ll be back for more, time to sleep a couple hours if I can.

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Yeah, this is weird. He’s clearly an immortal in the same class as probably the Winter Ladies, maybe even as the Queens. He’s called the goblin king back in Changes. I think he’s been power scaled kind of all over the place though the books.

Another question that just came to me, where the heck were all the warriors of Summer? We have seen more than a few and we know they can be seriously bad ass, the Elder Gruff would have come in handy in that fight.

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Yes. They’ve devoted way too much time to teasing this thing for it not to end up being more relevant later. Chekhov’s Gun and all. The comic relief and the anvil drop just aren’t worthy of the long buildup. But in the flip side, none of the older wizards seem particularly worried about it so presumably it’s not some massive catastrophe waiting to happen either.

Edit: one more thing… the Men In Black are coming.

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My favorite moment was a very quiet one - When Toot-Toot called forth the fairies. For one brief moment of beauty, the city was covered with the twinkling lights of the fae, reminding folks that there was still beauty and light in the world. It made me very happy.

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Finished it last night. Lots of good stuff, but I must admit I got tired of Harry constantly referring to Butters as small, short, etc. Once in every book is fine, but 4-5 times per chapter Butters appears in?

I believe I’ve read all of Butcher’s “Dresden” stuff now. But can anyone point me to a good guide/summary/synopsis of that whole universe that I can wade through? Older details, like the final status of his devil sweetheart/avatar from the denarius or when his cat was last mentioned are beginning to escape me. Along with the fate of his first girlfriend.

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Has Harry shown any interest/ability in conjuring things before (physical objects from ectoplasm, not illusions or glamours)? Maybe he is developing a new ability?

Presumably shape-shifters can bring additional body mass from the Never-never (revealed by Goodman Grey in Skin Game) so Listens-to-Wind does so when he transforms into a grizzly bear. Has any other human wizard brought matter from the Never-never and formed it into an object? I think a summoner (i.e., Binder) is calling beings from the Never-never who bring their own ectoplasmic bodies with them.

More likely is that Butcher came across the term “conjunctivitis” and though “conjuritis” would be a good pun…

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That’s an excellent question. I can’t recall any examples myself other than the ones you noted. I would think manifesting things from the Nevernever would be highly useful but even the Blackstaff and powerful bad guys like Cowl and Thorned Namshiel only seem to work by moving matter.

I suppose some basic invocation could be considered conjuring, like Harry calling fire and his giant soulfire-fueled fist or a Denarian calling forth tentacles and smoke and acid as a weapon. But those tend to be considered as different skill sets in-world.

You’re probably right about the pun…but damn, I really hope it goes somewhere else as it’s now spanned what, 3 books? Harry has Bob back we assume, so maybe he’ll finally get some answers.

After a quick Googling, seems that Blackstaff conjured a bucket during the fight with the cornerhounds in PT.

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Just checked - Harry sneezed and conjured the bucket.

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I think both Wikipedia and the Dresden Files Wiki have good, comprehensive summaries of all the books.

And I agree with you about Butters. Nearly every time he was around, he was “the little guy.” BTW, while I like Butters as kind of an unconventional Knight of Faith, I did feel like the whole threesome thing was a bit of nerd wish-fulfillment on Butcher’s part. Huh. Butcher. Butters. Nah…

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Here’s what I posted in the very-hardcore-fandom dresdenfiles subreddit:

I’ve read the whole series twice, so I like them a lot, but I’m in no way a hardcore theorycrafter like many of you. Here are my reactions, thoughts and questions:

(1) Overall, I loved it. The big fight (which obviously was most of the book) absolutely lived up to all the buildup last book. One thing done particularly well was giving Harry relevant and important things to do (up to and including the final binding) without suddenly powering him up past Mab, One-eye, etc.

(2) Murphy dying was super sad, but also necessary for there to be stakes. Main characters can’t always have plot armor. And sometimes people just die in stupid ways.

(3) I liked how Butters’s sword worked, but it seemed to be different from how it was described last book. If it’s harmless to humans, then why would it hurt (but not amputate) Harry when he was in a homicidal rage? Homicidal rages are, sadly, entirely human. It did seem to be more like “harms the evil, aids the good” regardless of species, although I don’t remember if we specifically saw it being used against one of the human mercenaries

(4) I love the twist with Lara, can’t wait to see how that plays out

(5) Do we know if Harry told anyone/everyone about Marcone? He learned two massive revelations in quick succession (Marcone and Justine) and we didn’t on-screen see him tell anyone about either one, which makes me nervous, although everyone seemed to know about Justine at the end.

One question for the more hard core of you: I thought something had happened that totally changed Bob. Wasn’t he involved in some re-homing where he ended up in a different skull with a totally different personality, something involving Lasciel? Or am I conflating things?

And some (generally minor) criticisms/complaints:

(1) After the big deal made last book about “this will never be kept a secret, it’s too big, everything will change” I was pretty disappointed at yet another “government covers it up with some insane story about terrorism”. I was really hoping that the next few books would deal with the fallout of the magical world totally and openly interacting with the mortal world… but it seems like any such will be limited to just Chicago.

(2) Probably my biggest gripe: so it turns out that the US government, in the form of the Library of Congress (wtf?) has known about the supernatural all along, and somehow no one has ever mentioned this to Harry in all of the insane stuff that has happened to him and everything he has been involved with? What were these librarians doing up until now if not investigating Harry?

(3) As I mentioned in another thread, it’s one thing for the White Council to say “having one of our members who is a sworn vassal of Mab is unacceptable, we can’t have fighting allegiances like that”. Its another to kick Harry out immediately after he won a massive victory, powered up immensely, might have the eye, is grieving his dead lover; and do so in a particularly harsh and antagonistic fashion. They easily could have said “hey, we can’t let you be on the white council, but we will continue to support you informally, you still have friends here, yada yada yada”. Even if they were lying they could have said that. (Granted maybe whoever is making those decisions is malicious/possessed).

(4) I found the fight with the black court a bit jarring, mainly because it felt like it needed an extra moment when the stakes were acknowledged. Like, they realize that it’s black court vampires, and Harry suddenly thinks “we’re all going to die”. As it was, I vaguely thought Harry was a match for a black court vampire, and him and four trained wardens, who should be getting the drop on them, plus river shoulders, plus a senior council member… and it felt like the rhythm of the fight was “ok, game on, wardens are doing a good job, clearly about on the same level… then Drakul is a serious badass… oh wait, all the wardens are dead?”.

(5) Did anything come of the whole “reality is falling about and weird things will happen” thing?

(6) Where was Ferrovax the whole time?

(7) Finally, I’m a little puzzled by what Justine/Nemesis’s plan was from the beginning. So Nemesis has occupied Justine, and wants to get to Demonreach. (Side note: once Harry realizes that she is possessed, on the boat, shouldn’t he not say anything and go with her to Demonreach, on which he has absolutely insane power and control and intellectus, and then just imprison her and sort it out later?) So it (Nemesis) in some way convinces Thomas to attack the svartelves? But how? Revealing itself to Thomas? If so, why wouldn’t Thomas immediately and verbosely tell Harry everything? If Nemesis’s entire plan only worked if Thomas (a) survived the attack but (b) was badly enough hurt not to be able to communicate in full words and © was precisely so badly wounded that the only way to heal him was to put him on demonreach, then that’s a pretty sketchy plan. Plus of course there’s a fair chance that Harry will then die in the Ethniu invasion, in which case, sorry, no demonreach.

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Lash (not Lasciel) left a portion of herself in Harry when she sacrificed herself. This became the parasite in Harry’s head, who turned out to be a baby spirit of intellect (Bonea or Bonnie) that has come to live in the new skull that Bob had Harry make.

The only change to Bob was that he’s been living with Butters for the last few years.

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I finished it last night, and unfortunately, I didn’t enjoy it nearly as much as everyone else.

  1. Nearly every action sequence had Harry saying, “Dude, this was OVER THE TOP! You’ve NEVER HEARD A SOUND LIKE THIS BEFORE! This was BIGGER THAN ANYTHING ELSE!” It felt like he turned the volume up to 11, which is fine, but then kept pointing out that it was turned up to 11, which was distracting.
  2. So much was built up and then nothing happened with it. Others have touched on some of this.
  3. By the end of Peace Talks, I thought it was pretty narratively inevitable that Justine was a bad guy, so that big reveal just made Dresden come across as kind of a bad detective. It’s like he lost all interest in why his brother launched his attack.
  4. Dresden keeps philosophizing, but his philosophizing always strikes me as a) authorial voice and b) pretty superficial.

That said, I sure finished it in two days. The action kept moving. There were some great sequences. And I loved the corny as hell short story at the end.

As for whether others know that Marconi is Denarian: was that the point of Dresden calling him Sir Marconi in front of the council? As soon as Dresden did that, Mab said something like, “That explains a lot.” I don’t know exactly what the implication was, but it sure seemed like Dresden was revealing Marconi’s supernatural powers with that “Sir.”

Finally, I’m rereading The Two Towers, and it begins with a one-page synopsis of Fellowship of the Rings. WHY DON’T ALL BOOKS IN SERIES BEGIN WITH A SYNOPSIS OF PREVIOUS BOOKS? This is the best thing ever.

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That’s not what worries me. What worries me is that Butters and Sanya find out - because they’ll have to go after him.