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  #1  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:27 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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I wonder why we haven't heard about this.

In short: A conservative Republican congresswoman, Jamie Herrera-Beutler, has given birth to a baby with a birth defect thought to be incompatible with life, but the baby survived birth and is still alive. It's called Potter Syndrome, and the baby has no kidneys. She is being kept alive through dialysis until she can receive a transplant, which will likely be a while because she was born at 28 weeks' gestation.

She was born July 13 and it seems this is the first of any news reports about it.

http://m.columbian.com/news/2013/jul...urely-baby-ok/
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  #2  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:29 PM
BrainGlutton BrainGlutton is online now
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What exactly is being Pitted here?
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  #3  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:34 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Oops, wrong forum. Can this be moved to Great Debates? Sorry.
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  #4  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:38 PM
Joey P Joey P is online now
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Oops, wrong forum. Can this be moved to Great Debates? Sorry.
Then you need to start a debate, not just toss up a link to a news story.
As of right now, it's MPSIMS.

I'm assuming you're annoyed she didn't have an abortion, otherwise I can't see why you'd mention that she's a republican.

But, unless you tell us what you want to debate, it's not fair to just toss up something that might be controversial and let everyone have at it. Give us something to talk about, tell us your opinion on it and back it up.
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  #5  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:38 PM
njtt njtt is offline
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Er, what would be the debate, then?
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:40 PM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Oops, wrong forum. Can this be moved to Great Debates? Sorry.

So what's the debate here???
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2013, 11:52 PM
levdrakon levdrakon is online now
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It's a pretty boring story. Is it being paid for with food stamps taken away from poor people?
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:01 AM
Projammer Projammer is offline
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Is the debate whether or not it's debatable?
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:06 AM
BigT BigT is offline
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Since the OP went out of his way to mention a "conservative Republican" congressperson, I'd guess they were expecting an abortion debate--whether a child with that type of birth defect should have been aborted--or perhaps, depending on the OP's politics, believes it proves that aborting kids with birth defects is wrong. This would also be the meaning behind asking why it wasn't reported in the news.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:09 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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I'm not sure what the debate is here but I'm willing to go on record as being against birth defects.
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  #11  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:10 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Since the OP went out of his way to mention a "conservative Republican" congressperson, I'd guess they were expecting an abortion debate--whether a child with that type of birth defect should have been aborted--or perhaps, depending on the OP's politics, believes it proves that aborting kids with birth defects is wrong. This would also be the meaning behind asking why it wasn't reported in the news.
I figured it was a shot at the liberal media for not publicizing the story more.
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:14 AM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I figured it was a shot at the liberal media for not publicizing the story more.
This is my take as well.
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:33 AM
Duckster Duckster is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I figured it was a shot at the liberal media for not publicizing the story more.
The Congresswoman chose to keep secret the premature birth until today when the press release was issued. Considering the Columbian was chosen as the media outlet (a right-wing local newspaper) any perceived "liberal" bias is bunk. One might infer she chose to delay the announcement because of the infant's critical medical issues.

The liberal media is across the Columbia River in Portland, in a different state, with a different approach to life than the District she doesn't fully represent. FTR, I've seen more beat up local pickup trucks waving the Confederate Stars and Bars in her District than I've ever seen in a Civil Ware reenactment.

Last edited by Duckster; 07-30-2013 at 12:37 AM..
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:45 AM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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And here I got a pair of perfectly good kidneys and I abuse them nightly. Life ain't fair, is it?

Wots this thread about?
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:48 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
And here I got a pair of perfectly good kidneys and I abuse them nightly. Life ain't fair, is it?

Wots this thread about?
Threadjack: You must be a fan of Foster Dad John, too! All hail Chickenfish!
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  #16  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:09 AM
Ferret Herder Ferret Herder is online now
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I'm not sure what the debate is here but I'm willing to go on record as being against birth defects.
I will join you in this brave stand!
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:12 AM
Tabby_Cat Tabby_Cat is offline
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I will join you in this brave stand!
What the hell? I can't believe the brazen ableist agenda in this thread.


*huffs*
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:40 AM
leftfield6 leftfield6 is online now
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In which I walk by the storefront window, glance in, think WTF is going on here, and quickly move on down the sidewalk.
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2013, 06:09 AM
Smeghead Smeghead is offline
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I wonder why anyone thinks this story is news, and why we SHOULD be hearing about it?
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2013, 06:19 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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The newsworthy thing is that they volunteered for an experimental treatment that seems to have allowed their fetus to develop useful lungs, meaning this might be a viable alternative for other such families in the future.

I suppose we could debate the ethics of performing experimental procedures on an otherwise doomed fetus in hopes of producing a surviving child?
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  #21  
Old 07-30-2013, 07:41 AM
KarlGauss KarlGauss is offline
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I figured out why this is in the Pit. It's a God Pitting!

You see, as the Congresswoman noted, God heard her prayers (and her husband's and their supporters'). i.e., "But most of all, we are grateful to God for hearing those prayers".

Clearly the OP is asking why God chose to hear these prayers and not of the the six-year-old who was raped tortured and murdered last week, or those of the latest batch of Syrian non-combatants to be executed, let alone those of the millions of devout Jews and so many others who were murdered during the Holocaust.

That God, I tell you. He's just impossible to figure.
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:13 AM
El_Kabong El_Kabong is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I'm not sure what the debate is here but I'm willing to go on record as being against birth defects.
Oh, I don't know. I think I need to hear from both sides on this issue.
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:34 AM
Enola Gay Enola Gay is offline
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I'm firmly in the Pro-Birth Defects camp because I embrace diversity and think we should all love each other just the way God made us.
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:34 AM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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I'm not sure what the debate is here but I'm willing to go on record as being against birth defects.
I think the debate will center on whether or not nearwildheaven should start threads.
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:36 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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As already noted, the reason "why we haven't heard about this" is because the parents chose not to announce it for a couple of weeks. It's also been reported by Fox News around the same time as the story linked to in the OP.

I suspect the reason that CNN apparently hasn't picked up on it yet is because it's an atheist liberal outlet that wants to deny the power of prayer.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:44 AM
leftfield6 leftfield6 is online now
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I suspect the reason that CNN apparently hasn't picked up on it yet is because it's an atheist liberal outlet that wants to deny the power of prayer.
Am I being whooshed here?
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:48 AM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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By the way, Potter syndrome/sequence covers a whole range of abnormalities, which in addition to partial or complete lack of kidneys includes various levels of pulmonary hypoplasia (insufficient development), facial abnormalities and clubbed feet. Whether the experimental treatment used here will allow for long-term survival is still up in the air.
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Am I being whooshed here?
Pray for guidance.
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:53 AM
Enola Gay Enola Gay is offline
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Am I being whooshed here?
I don't want to speak for Jackmannii, but I'm pretty sure he is 100% serious. Anyone who knows anything knows that CNN is nothing but an evil left wing propaganda machine. The only place to get fair & balanced reporting is Fox News. Cite: Fox was the only media outlet to cover this story. Coincidence? I think not.
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  #29  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:54 AM
Procrustus Procrustus is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlGauss View Post
I figured out why this is in the Pit. It's a God Pitting!

You see, as the Congresswoman noted, God heard her prayers (and her husband's and their supporters'). i.e., "But most of all, we are grateful to God for hearing those prayers".

Clearly the OP is asking why God chose to hear these prayers and not of the the six-year-old who was raped tortured and murdered last week, or those of the latest batch of Syrian non-combatants to be executed, let alone those of the millions of devout Jews and so many others who were murdered during the Holocaust.

That God, I tell you. He's just impossible to figure.
Maybe they should have prayed a little more before god gave their baby the birth defect to begin with.
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  #30  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:57 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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This thread should have been aborted. Who is keeping it on life support?
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  #31  
Old 07-30-2013, 08:58 AM
Nava Nava is offline
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As the aunt of a child with a birth defect, I'm against birth defects but in favor of people who have them.
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  #32  
Old 07-30-2013, 09:01 AM
WhyNot WhyNot is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
The newsworthy thing is that they volunteered for an experimental treatment that seems to have allowed their fetus to develop useful lungs, meaning this might be a viable alternative for other such families in the future.

I suppose we could debate the ethics of performing experimental procedures on an otherwise doomed fetus in hopes of producing a surviving child?
Yeah, I think the focus is on the wrong organ here. The problem isn't her lack of kidneys, exactly - it's that her lack of kidneys meant a lack of fetal pee, and that's mostly what amniotic fluid is. Lungs need that fluid to develop, and the chest wall muscles and diaphragm need that fluid to "practice" breathing to get strong enough to breathe air.

So without that fluid (due to no kidneys) now what? The answer, although experimental, is to repeatedly inject saline into the amniotic sac and hope that it provides the same lung developing benefits as fetal pee would.

I'm not seeing why it's any of our business before the family would like to share it. It's not unknown in antenatal medicine, it just hasn't been tried very often 'cause it's not often that babies have no amniotic fluid. It's been used successfully in premature rupture of membranes with low amniotic fluid for over a decade, and somewhat less successfully for other causes of oligohydramnios in the years since.

It's way cool, and while I think her thanks are a little misplaced (um...God screwed up this time, it was doctors and nurses that saved your baby, dear.) it's certainly a common enough misplacement of gratitude that it just flies under the radar these days.

But, yeah, I also agree that "survival" is a relative and time dependent term. It's been less than 3 weeks, lots can still go wrong. And there are many things that can go wrong, horrifically wrong, with the growth and development of a premature infant. Of course, I wish them all the best of luck, but they still have a very long, expensive and hard row to hoe, and they will never entirely be over the fear that something could go wrong related to their little miracle's rapid entry into the world.

Last edited by WhyNot; 07-30-2013 at 09:02 AM..
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  #33  
Old 07-30-2013, 09:37 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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As the aunt of a child with a birth defect, I'm against birth defects but in favor of people who have them.
^ As the spouse of an adult with a birth defect I also take this position.
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  #34  
Old 07-30-2013, 09:44 AM
Hamlet Hamlet is offline
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I am pro-birth defects. Without birth defects, where would we get our heroes like Wolverine, Beast, and Cyclops? Our planet would have been destroyed by the Brood or the Skrulls were it not for birth defects! Do you want the Earth destroyed? Answer me that, you anti-defectors!!!!
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  #35  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:22 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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This thread should have been aborted. Who is keeping it on life support?
The thread is on the waiting list for an OP transplant.
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  #36  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:27 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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How bizarre. After posting this nonsensical OP and seemingly leaving the thread, the OP comes back, not to explain the OP, but just to post this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
Threadjack: You must be a fan of Foster Dad John, too! All hail Chickenfish!
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  #37  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:32 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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As the aunt of a child with a birth defect, I'm against birth defects but in favor of people who have them.
I oppose birth defects but I support the troops.
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  #38  
Old 07-30-2013, 12:38 PM
Finagle Finagle is offline
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My thoughts, such as they are:

"Yah, science!"

and

"How lucky they are that they can afford hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars of healthcare." Even with insurance, most Americans would be bankrupted by this kind of miracle.
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  #39  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:11 PM
Cinnamon Imp Cinnamon Imp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlGauss View Post
I figured out why this is in the Pit. It's a God Pitting!

You see, as the Congresswoman noted, God heard her prayers (and her husband's and their supporters').
They prayed for a kidney-less child?
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  #40  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
Sampiro Sampiro is online now
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Medical question, but since the forum is kind of wonky anyway: is it possible to artificially "grow" a pair of kidneys ala this article on stem cells or do they have to wait for an infant with healthy kidneys to die?

Last edited by Sampiro; 07-30-2013 at 01:13 PM..
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  #41  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:13 PM
jayjay jayjay is online now
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I don't know nearwildheaven enough yet to tell which way s/he falls politically, but if the purpose of this thread was a dig at the lethal defects argument for late-term abortion, I would remind her that the default leftwing position is CHOICE, not abortion. The Congresswoman CHOSE to forgo abortion and therefore I have no problem with this situation (other than to hope the baby pulls through with some hope of a relatively normal life). My only difference with the Congresswoman on this is that I would also consider the choice NOT to continue the pregnancy after finding out the fetus's condition to be a valid one.
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  #42  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:38 PM
Smeghead Smeghead is offline
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Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
Medical question, but since the forum is kind of wonky anyway: is it possible to artificially "grow" a pair of kidneys ala this article on stem cells or do they have to wait for an infant with healthy kidneys to die?
It's not currently possible outside of experimental work. Hopefully in the near future.
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  #43  
Old 07-30-2013, 01:52 PM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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Originally Posted by Sampiro View Post
Medical question, but since the forum is kind of wonky anyway: is it possible to artificially "grow" a pair of kidneys ala this article on stem cells or do they have to wait for an infant with healthy kidneys to die?
Assuming one of the parents is a match for the kid, they could continue dialysis until the child is old enough/large enough to accept an adult kidney for a third alternative.
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  #44  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:01 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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I thought the pit/debate would be self-explanatory, but I guess it isn't, and I PM'd a moderator and requested that the thread be closed.

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  #45  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:06 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is online now
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If its not self explanatory, here's an idea... Explain it?
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  #46  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:08 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is online now
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I thought the pit/debate would be self-explanatory, but I guess it isn't, and I PM'd a moderator and requested that the thread be closed.

Let's not close it. I need closure. What's the issue?
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  #47  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:11 PM
Enola Gay Enola Gay is offline
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Yeah come on now, don't close this thread without explaining what the self-explanatory debate is! That's just cruel.
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  #48  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:23 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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What do they mean "born without kidneys?" Are her internal organs otherwise fully functioning but the kidneys just aren't there? Or is it more complex? And if you compare the DNA of this baby against a healthy one, does this help us to identify the genes responsible for development of kidneys?
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  #49  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:31 PM
panache45 panache45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I thought the pit/debate would be self-explanatory, but I guess it isn't . . .
Since it's apparently not self-explanatory, why don't you explain it? We're not mind-readers, you know.
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  #50  
Old 07-30-2013, 05:35 PM
Smeghead Smeghead is offline
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If you don't know what's wrong, I'M not going to tell you!

*flounce*
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