Ask the exhausted grad student

Finish? Who said anything about finishing? What, so I can then take my wonderfully useful physics degree out into this thing we all hear about called the “real world” and try to find a job? Nope nope nope, never gonna finish. Eventually, they’ll kick me out, but hopefully by the time they do, the government will be back into the weapons of mass destruction thing and I can serve my country in the grand tradition of my discipline. :wink:

What, you kidding? That would require being awake enough to see/hear/think straight, and THAT is never going to happen. Besides, see above, where I confess to being a physicist; this tends to be just a bit of a disincentive for the co-eds, eh?

Already mentioned. No, the GRE was probably even easier than the SAT. Because one can’t work in science without the advanced degree*. No. Occasionally. And me**.

*Why am I in science? Sometimes I wonder. Temporary insanity, perhaps. Actually, it’s fun and interesting, in a sick sort of way. But it’s considered good form to complain about it anyway.

**I was going to be really snarky and say “my laundry gets done? Who knew?”, but that would be oh-so-unhelpful, in addition to reinforcing all the stereotypes about my physicsy brethren, some minority of whom actually also wear clean clothes and shower every day.

Hey, I’m a sleepy grad student too (doing my Master’s at the University of Chicago; applying to doctoral programs [again] this year). I thought the GRE was hard – the math parts were, anyway; the verbal section was easy. I didn’t think the subject test in English was hard, either, but you have to know your Dead (British) White Guys.

Oh, and the GSI union at U of Michigan does indeed do the whole melodramatic freedom-fighter thing – wait, Cranky, you’re not at Michigan, are you? (I went there as an undergrad.)

Porpentine – what’s your major field? Since your handle is Fretful Porpentine and you quoted Robert Herrick, would I be off the mark in guessing Renaissance? :smiley:

And (as a general question) should I write my Foundations of Interpretive Theory paper on Hegel or Marx?

Sorry I haven’t responded so far. I’ve been grading papers (It took me 8 hours–not including a 2 hour nap I took when I got so tired and eyestrained that I literally couldn’t see straight–to grade 20 student lab reports. Ecch!) and doing other school-related stuff. So I’ve been pretty darned tired. After I get a good night’s sleep, I’ll write more.

Poor Scribble, do all TA’s pass through the same hell, or do different categories of hell exist?

Yep, got it in one. What’s yours?

Marx. A far more interesting question is, Groucho or Harpo?

Actually, I think one of them does have a crush on me – he keeps hanging around after class to ask questions, and I’m sensing that indefinable sort of vibe. But I’m not absolutely sure, so I guess the answer is no.

Different categories of hell exist. Mine isn’t all that bad, really – I teach freshman comp, and while my department sets certain guidelines about course structure and content, for the most part we get a great deal of freedom. I just taught a unit about urban legends (a GREAT way to sneak critical thinking in through the back door, BTW), and in the spring I’m hoping to spend a month on films of the 1960’s. It’s really a lot of fun, and I get some interesting papers (and a few … um … interesting papers). Lab reports, I suspect, would be hell.

The same! :smiley:

And personally, I’m leaning towards Harpo – everyone does Groucho. :wink:

I’m a grad student, too!

I’m an English Major, too!

I have nothing else to contribute, really.

My dad was a TA for one of my mom’s classes when they first met…

Does it piss you guys off that you’ll mostly be pushing or in your 30’s (or even 40’s) before you are even able to get your first good job; or, for some unlucky souls, their first “real job” at all?
(good/real job meaning one that you have specific training for, might actually like, one that might last, one that you’ll be respected at, you know - be able to use your degrees)
And what do ya’ll think about the mouth-breathing high school drop out who had his buddies teach him how to run a huge backhoe or to do some other menial (but high paying) job, who’s been making $60,000/yr since he was 17 while you’ll only be finishing school, flat broke, at twice that age?

Two words: “don’t” and “start.” :stuck_out_tongue: It doesn’t help that my little brother, working in the sawmill over the summers, made about as much doing that as I do in an entire year doing research and teaching.

Seriously, though, the education is its own reward. Or so I keep on telling myself.

Yeah, I’d like to make more money. But who wouldn’t, really?

I think that, for many of us, money doesn’t have quite the social importance that many people outside academe attatch to it. We all know we’re ridiculously overworked and absurdly underpaid. Everyone here knows that your pay has absolutely no relation whatever to your merit, acheivement, or worth as a human being. Many people in the “real world”* seem to think otherwise. Ecch.

It can be a pain to see people in your high school graduating class or relatives younger than you making 2 or 3 times what you’ll make each year for what often seems like an ever-lengthening part of your life. (Many members of my family are downright ashamed of me because I don’t make enough money to suit them.) But, for many of us, being in grad school is like being an aspiring artist. Despite a lot of the problems we often have, we love what we do. I’m very committed to my own work, and I can’t imagine having more autonomy or creative freedom than I do now. I’m not wealthy, and probably never will be. But I won’t starve, either.

Things like that do cross my mind now and then. But, then again, I wouldn’t want that mouth-breather’s job. I spent one year in the “real world,” and I hated it completely. And I had plenty of dead-end jobs as an undergrad. I’d hate to have to go back to either way of making a living ever again. If there’s one thing the “real world” has taught me, it’s that, no matter how much you’re getting paid, if you don’t like your work, you’ll be pretty miserable. I think it’s a shame I’m not paid more (I won’t go into a rant on the lack of value we put on education right now), and I’d like to work less at the dull or irritating parts of my job, but, at the moment, I’m doing fine here.

(I hope what I’ve written makes sense. It’s pretty late…)

*I take issue with the description of non-academic things as “real,” as in the expressions “the real world,” “a real job,” etc. Don’t my life and work count as genuine and worthwhile?

What Scribble said, especially the last bit. Teaching is a real job; it just happens to be one that doesn’t pay well.

Actually, grad school was the safe, conservative, guaranteed-income choice for me – the only other things I thought seriously about doing after graduation were moving to Spain and teaching English illegally, or joining AmeriCorps. (Well, I did contemplate applying to law school, but if I’d done that I would probably be working for some sort of nonprofit organization right now, up to my ears in student loans.)

I have a hard time imagining any circumstances under which I might become rich, unless I inherited millions or wrote the next Harry Potter or something. It takes a certain personality and set of priorities to make money; I don’t have them and I don’t particularly care to have them. No offense to those who do.

Anyway, I’m not sure what I would do with a lot of money, except travel, and I manage to save enough for that as it is.

Math student, punching in.

I’ve got it relatively easy, just TA’ing and taking classes, and the instructions from my instructor for grading basically say “if you need to look at any one paper for more than 20 seconds, you’re looking too hard,” which is nice.

Just a puny little first year, so I haven’t had that much time to get bitter. But then, I’m here at 10 o’clock on a Saturday. Cripes!

Tenebras

By the way, we have a union here, and it’s all about “fight the man!” and so on and so forth. United Auto Workers, WTF?

i don’t really care about any of this at all actually. like scribble and others i’m sure, i spent some time in the ‘real world’ too. i had a regular old pretty good paying job for a few years. it started out as a temp job that just expanded, and in the end it was really killing me inside. i just can’t do the 8-5 40hr/wk paperwork drudgery routine. and i want to do something where i can be more creative. i’ll be happy with my jobs i get after this degree because i will be able to live in different places. as long as i have enough money to eat yummy things i’m ok!

as for other people making mucho bucks without extended time in education systems… great for them! i hope they are happy doing what they do!

Oh yeah, I forgot about the money thing. I’m just happy to have the kind of job where they pay you to go to school. I mean, I get a living wage… Ok, that’s wishful thinking, especially since I don’t get paid till nov. 1. Rather let us say that I get enough to live on in a very expensive community, somebody else pays for me to go and do what I like best, learn about math and kibbutz about all sorts of stupid crap that grad students talk about. Oh yeah, and unlimited access to the lab with a fast connection to hang out on the SDMB. :smiley:

What exactly is the problem here? Am I supposed to feel bad because I don’t make heaps of money? Damn. I also don’t have a dress code (well, there probably is some rule that says “no exposed willies” or something. Probably) and I don’t have to get up before sunrise. Someone please point out the inherent flaws in this system?

Coupl’a things here. I’m looking to be done by the time I’m 26 or 27, hardly in my thirties. And how exactly would anybody be able to use a degree before they got it, the implication of the line seeming ot be that until being in the 30’s or 40’s the degree will be wasted.

As far as the guy running the backhoe, I hope he likes it as much as I like not running a backhoe. I mean, you could have at least picked a slightly enticing job. But anyhow, that’s just my take. And I have now spent entirely too much time in the lab. But I did get my grades entered. :slight_smile:

Tenebras

OK, I have a question for Scribble and anybody else who has taught or TA’d a science class.

I have to teach a Writing Across the Disciplines course next semester that includes a science unit. Which skills / types of writing should I focus on? In particular, is there anything you wish your students knew about writing in the sciences that they generally don’t?

Fretful porpentine asked:

The class you’ll be teaching sounds like a great idea. A lot of scientific writing is absolutely terrible. I find that the incidence of turgid, unclear, inaccessible writing is especially high among molecular biologists. Student writing (I’m an extradepartmental TA in the chemistry department, and I teach recitation and lab for one of the intro chem courses) can be pretty awful, too, but it’s often horrible in very different ways. Your course will help the students get better grades in their science classes (I can only give good scores on reports I can understand), and those that go on to be researchers might turn out better prose than many of the scientists out there today.

Here are some things I wish my students knew about writing for me:

  1. It’s easiest for me to understand you if you write out what you think, rather than answering questions with one word or a small phrase. If I ask you to outline a procedure for something, tell me what you’re going to do step by step. Since you’re a student, I also have to see your reasons for giving me the answer that you do.

For example, if a question asks you, “Why is eating the glassware in the laboratory a bad idea?,” a correct answer might read something like this:

“Eating laboratory glassware is dangerous to your health for two reasons. First, the glassware may be contaminated with poisonous substances. Second, glass is hard and sharp. People who eat glassware in the laboratory could get broken teeth and nasty cuts in their mouths and other digestive organs.”

Do NOT answer with something like this,

“Hard, sharp, pois.”

That doesn’t tell me anything, and I can’t give you points for it, even if you know what you’re talking about.

  1. Check your spelling. Please. Many very, very different scientific terms (or general words) have similar spellings. If, for example, you start out talking about “silicon” and suddenly switch to “silicone,” I have to wonder what substance you’re trying to tell me about. That isn’t good for either of us. For similar reasons, don’t use abbreviations unless you’ve told me exactly what that abbreviation will stand for.

  2. Be specific about your errors. Don’t say, “This answer might be off because of human error.” Instead, tell me, “I nibbled on the test tube while I was waiting for the sample to boil. Some of the sample ran out of the cracks in the test tube and was lost. Therefore, the recorded final weight of my sample was less than it should have been.”

  3. Don’t write something with fancy-schmancy complicated words when you could say it simpler terms. Using big words doesn’t make you sound “more scientific.” There’s no reason to write “masticating and ingesting Pyrex vessels” when you could say “eating glassware.” Be especially careful of using big words when you don’t know what they mean. Don’t write things like “No-one should be caught masticating in the laboratory or anywhere else in public.”

And, of course, I’d like to see them follow the basic rules of good writing. I wish most of them had topic sentences, organized paragraphs, etc.

Here are some of the things I wish many of my fellow grad students and other people in the sciences would change about their writing:

  1. Don’t string 9 adjectives in front of a noun, make reference to one or two of them in a paragraph, and then suddenly allude to another of the traits in a separate section of your paper. It’s very confusing.

  2. If you’re going to present me with a line of reasoning, it’s usually best to do so in syllogistic fashion. Write, “It is well known in the literature that if A, then B. The results of our work show that if B, then C. Therefore, if A, then C. Since A is the case–a position supported by the results of Mo, Larry, and Curly (Mo M, Larry Q, and Curly Hair, 2000), then C must be true.” You might be surprised how many authors of scientific papers ignore the fact that a chain of reasoning should be made as easy to follow as possible.

  3. Personally, I think it’s high time we got rid of the idea that all scientific writing has to be in the passive voice. It adds unneccessary verbage to scientific writing, and it makes the text feel oddly dead or distant. If you think about it for a bit, it’s also somewhat arrogant. We all know that human beings are the ones who do scientific work; using the passive voice makes it sound like you want readers to believe that all the work was done by the hand of God. Because the traditional passive-voice style is so firmly embedded in the culture(s) of science, I will be writing my stuff in that style, too. But the passive voice thing ought to go.

I hope you find this helpful.

–Scribble

Oh, yeah–and make sure that the referents of your pronouns are clear. :slight_smile:

What I meant to say was, “If you think about it for a bit, you’ll see that it’s somewhat arrogant to always use the passive voice in scientific writing.”

Sheesh.

Another thing I tell my students–Proofread, proofread, PROOFREAD.

I’m such a hypocrite. <sigh.> :wink:

I have to second most of what Scribble said. In general, students tend to be really terse in writing about their experiments, which makes it very difficult to figure out if they actually knew what they were talking about or not. Focus on getting them to be descriptive; the goal is for someone else to be able to replicate their experiment based on their report of it, which means that they need to tell you exactly what they did.

I actually like the passive voice in scientific writing, but not when it’s used exclusively. Since most of what I write is more theoretical rather than experimental, it sounds LESS arrogant to me to say “one can show blah” than to say “I showed blah.” At the same time, you do have to realize that it IS your work and YOU did it, not someone else, so take some credit!

Lastly, commas are your friend. I loathe reading most physics papers because, well, physicists cannot write. I remember taking a draft into my advisor for him to read through it, and I’m not quite sure he even knew what a semi-colon was. So if you wish to teach them to write as people in science often DO, they should have short choppy ugly sentences. I think this is an abomination unto God, myself, but it’s the way things are done.

Thanks for the suggestions, folks! It’s a good class in theory, but since it’s taught by English grad students, most of us are poorly prepared to put it into practice. I can handle the humanities and social science units without too much trouble, but I haven’t taken a natural science class since my first semester of college and haven’t a clue what sort of writing science majors actually do.

What kind of assignments should I concentrate on? I need to work in two short papers (1-3 pages; can include lab reports, research proposals, etc.) and a longer project (5-7 pages). All three assignments should be on the same topic, for instance, a specific disease or environmental hazard. Ideally, the long paper should build on the short ones. Oh, and in theory we’re supposed to look at professional writing, but most of the science journals I’ve looked at are far too impenetrable for college freshmen, so I may let that requirement slide.

I’m really hoping not to do lab reports, because we don’t have the equipment or lab space to incorporate a serious science experiment into an English class, so most classes end up doing something hokey like dropping eggs off of tall buildings to see how many break. But if 90% of the writing they’re going to do in real science classes is lab reports, I suppose I’ll have to work one in somehow.

Personally, I’m leaning toward some sort of research paper for the big project, with perhaps a news-article style paper introducing the topic in layman’s terms as one of the short assignments. I’m not sure what to do with the other one at all – perhaps they should design an experiment to study the topic, even if they can’t actually carry it out? Would these types of papers prepare them for higher-level science classes? If not, can you suggest something more useful?

I’ve got a few ideas about general topics, but they’re still in the embryo stage – will probably post them as they develop.