Before I go on let me say that I respect all of you who stand up for your beliefs or non-beliefs, and I am in no way putting anyone down for what their beliefs are. Maybe some of you will think I’m being “holier than thou,” but that’s truly not the case here. I’m just curious to know why, if there really is a loving God - why you wouldn’t want to believe in or know him?
I hear people say all the time how they wish they had “inner peace.” And those are the very people who don’t understand when I say I have it. Some may laugh at that or just roll their eyes, but wouldn’t it be nice if you could really have it too? Or maybe you do have it already, can you explain where it comes from and what you do to keep it alive?
I know there’s tons of reasons why many people think they have to change their lives to become “believers.” Do any of you feel that way? And if you did decide one day to believe in God do you think he would love you any less for the things that you do?
I have no idea how this thread is going to go and I did hesitate many times before posting it, but the truth is I’m really curious to know how you feel about this and why.
I require this cute little thing called “proof” before I accept something as a given. Feelings of inner peace can come from a pill, so I don’t see this as evidence of any one god. The Christian text “The Bible” seems to be just legends and myths with no basis in reality. Doesn’t qualify as proof. Other people witnessing? Well we have theories like “The God Module” which could easily explain mystical experiences.
In short, I’m looking for truth. Your religious view requires faith, which to many effectively translates into stop looking for the truth - only look for truth which backs up this version of things. I’ll take my truth unbiased thank you very much.
It’s not that we don’t want to beleive or know God, it’s that we really don’t think he exists. Really. Truly. It’s not that we think there’s Somebody up there but we don’t like him so we refuse to believe. It’s not that we know he’s there but don’t want to learn anything about him. We don’t think anyone is there at all.
I know my place in the world and I do not fear to face what my intellect and reason tell me to be true. I love and am loved. I try to do the right thing by my fellow man. I try to make the world better for my having existed.
It’s not like I woudl just sit down one day and think, “You know, these God people seem pretty cool, think I’ll beleive in God”. If the evidence convinced me that God existed, I would beleive. Whether my life would change depends entirely on what sort of God I determined existed. Right now asking whether I think God would love me or not is like asking whether, if dragons existed, if they would be named Herbert or George. It really is not applicable. Of course, I am utterly lovable anyway, so how could any being not love me?* It not fear of rejection that “keeps [me] from God”, if that’s what you mean.
*[sub]Certain inexplicable young men nothwithstanding.[/sub]
Aye, there’s the rub, “if there really is a loving God.” The concept of God as espoused by all the organized religions that I know of is so incredible and contradictory that it simply is beyond my belief.
It’s difficult to put into words. I simply don’t believe in many of the things you accept as undisputable truths.
IMO, there is no such thing as God. However, I’ve found that believers are not able to comprehend this state of mind. They feel that atheists ‘know deep down’ that there is a God, yet refuse to acknowledge Him for some unfathomable reason. This is why the invisible pink unicorn is so often brought up. You know what it’s like to not to believe there is an IPU standing next to you. Similarly, I don’t believe there is a God.
WRT the christian God specifically, there is only one source of information about Him. But, I find it to be inherently flawed for many reasons (which I will not elaborate upon here).
As for this “inner peace”, well I feel peaceful enough. Where does it come from? I feel that I understand my place in the world pretty well, and I’m comfortable with life as I understand it. I don’t need the idea of God watching over me or eternal life in the hereafter to provide me peace.
Funny thing about faith - it is very hard to make yourself believe in something that makes no sense to you.
I have inner peace. I used to be a practicing Catholic. Had inner peace then to. Doesn’t seem to have required God in the equation. I have inner peace because I am comfortable with myself and who I am. When I lack inner peace it is because I have become uncomfortable with who I am. I either change, or I change my expectations for myself.
Of course God would like me for who I am…I strive to be a decent good person. Seems like that should be the litmus test for God, not whether I show up in church on Sunday and sing songs for him.
I kind of see God like a country club. I wouldn’t belong to a country club that won’t admit Jews or Blacks (or give women the crummy tee times). And I’m not going to buy into a God that runs a heaven where “non-believers need not apply”. So I figure I win either way. Either God lets me in for being a decent person - no matter how much or little faith I have, or I’ve won over God on the moral high ground. Or I get eaten by worms like everyone else.
Pretty much ditto on what Gaudere said. I kinda envy some of my religious friends, who believe that they’ll see their loved ones again in an “afterlife,” that they are being Looked Over, that there are set rules that we *must[/i[ live by. But as Gaudere said, I can’t “convince” myself to suddenly start believing in something that—deep down inside—I have never had the slightest suspicion is true.
It would be like saying to you, “the Greek gods were so much more entertaining, and they communicated directly with you. Why don’t you start believing in them instead of the Christian god?” It just doesn’t *work *that way.
It is so hard to believe in God for the same reason it is so hard to not believe in God. I more or less agree with the other opinions presented so far, but that is pretty much the only way I can respond.
Why is it so hard to believe in God? Apparently, it’s not, since a whole lot of people manage to believe just fine. I do not, for I see no persuasive evidence in support of that belief. Simple, eh?
It also depends on what you mean by “belief.” Do you mean to acknowledge His existence, in the same way that I believe Australia exists? Or, given an affirmative answer on my first question, to put one’s faith and trist in Him, as I put my trust and faith in Roger Ebert to steer me away from crappy movies?
On the first question, I have to say, no, I don’t believe that God exists. I see no evidence that a loving, all-powerful, all-benevolent deity has any influnce on the world or its inhabitants. However, the universe I see around me is consonant with the blind workings of a random universe. Take, for example, the ichneumon wasp. When the urge to reproduce hits it, it looks for a certain species of caterpillar. It stings the caterpillar, rendering it immobile, and then lays an egg on it. The egg hatches, and the emerging larva devours the helpless, still-conscious caterpillar. I don’t see the hand of a kind god in that.
But let’s say that I have incontrovertible evidence that the Christian deity exists. I STILL would not put my faith and trust in such a vicious and malignant deity. If we take the Old Testament as a literally ture account of His behavior, then He ordered the Israelites to commit genocide against the Canaanites, He tried to kill Moses after revealing Himself to him, he struck down Uzziah for trying to save the Ark of the Covenant from falling, he approved of a man who offered his daughters to be raped by a crowd of men, and he visited hideous plagues on a believer just to settle a bet.
I never had inner peace when I was a theist (or maybe I did, but couldn’t feel it). I seemed to acquire it when I stopped looking for it, coincidentally aroud the same time I stopped believing in God. I have no doubt that if a God existed, that I am behaving as good to my fellow man as can be expected, so I have no fear of rejection. I simply don’t believe.
No. I have not considered changing my life so that I may become a believer, however that’s supposed to work. I have not considered *not *changing my life and becoming a believer. I simply have not considered “becoming a believer.” There have been many times that I heartily wished I could believe in a God, especially that afterlife part.
Your question sounds like it assumes all us nonbelievers really would be believers if we just didn’t have to change our sinful ways and if we could only be sure God was going to forgive us for all “the things that [we] do.” As if we’re afraid to believe in or admit belief in a God, even though we really really want to, because then we’d be called to the carpet for our sins. Would you care to clarify what things I do (other than refusing to believe in Him, out of sheer perverseness, surely) which would cause your God to love me less?
I am an atheist, and sometimes quite an obnoxious one. (Although I’ve mellowed out quite a bit, thanks to this message board.)
I do not have what you call “inner peace”, but that is not the result, so far as I can tell, of my lack of religious beliefs.
If there is a god, of course I would want to know that fact. However, if there is not a god I certainly don’t want to believe that one exists. I try to keep my beliefs as accurate as possible.
I don’t know if my life would change if I began to believe in a god or not. It would depend very much on the nature of the god I began to believe in.
I grew up in a catholic household and used to accept the idea of god, but over time, starting at about age seven I started to doubt it more and more. The universe makes perfect sense without it, and there are so many contradictory ideas about what god is that I decided none of them can be right. It just doesn’t make sense.
Plus, I really abhor the notion of a judgemental being that condemns people just because they didn’t follow a very arbitrary and specific set of doctrines, which is what every christian sect professes, even if to be tactful they don’t always come right out and say so. I just don’t believe that there’s a “heaven” that only certain people can get into. Sounds like a bad country club to me.
On a related tangent, I wonder if one can really say that it’s “hard” to believe in an omnipotent dietiy (or dieties) who will take care of all your troubles and eventually set things right. I mean, that’s a very comforting idea, and believing in that should be easier than being skeptical and requiring some proof. Shouldn’t it be harder to be a nonbeliever?
(But still, despite the burden, I go on non-believing. Curse me for having such an analytical mind. )
It not fear of rejection that “keeps [me] from God”, if that’s what you mean.
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