which is why some areas are trying to make it illegal to videotape the police. luckily those states and areas seem to be losing in the courts.
You know what you won’t find on Youtube? The other 20 videos in the “series” where little Douche McStuffins got his answer from the police officer before riding away. If those are there, it would be one of the most boring channels possible.
UPDATE - May 8, 2013
According to the Las Vegas news channel that aired this yesterday:
- The video is over one year old.
- The officer on the video “no longer works for Metro Police”…although I don’t know if that means he simply moved to LA or is now a Detective or whatever.
- Still doesn’t distract from the essense of the video, but just thought I would mention the above 2 tidbits of info.
There is not a single state in the United States where there are not examples of LEO’s who have been thuggish in their behavior. Assault? Rape? Robbery of suspects? Intimidation? Harrassment? Murder? All true.
Please tell us what nation you live in where LEO’s are not also sometimes thugs?
According to the Las Vegas news site I was looking at it stated he had retired months ago.
No, that’s not what I mean and I doubt it’s what the kid in the video meant, since he asked the officer why he was parked on the sidewalk several times. If you have some evidence that the kid had some other motive, please post it.
Please don’t presume to tell me (or others) what I want; you didn’t ask me, you don’t know, and your supposition is wrong. I’d like for laws to be enforced consistently rather than selectively.
I know; I do live here after all. Vehicles responding to an emergency can park (and for the most part drive) wherever they need to in order to perform their job. That doesn’t seem to have any bearing on the situation in the video, however. I strongly suspect that if it had been applicable, the officer A) would have mentioned it and B) would not have come back to his motorcycle with a large coffee in his hand. Unless he was responding to a secret caffeine emergency, which is an argument you are free to make and expound on.
Are you being deliberately thickheaded?
If he has to park at a “real” parking spot, he may wind up parking a block or two away from the coffee shop. Which means he may be a block or two away from his vehicle when he gets the call to respond to an emergency. Which means his response will be delayed by however long it takes him to run back to his car.
If you’re OK with response times being delayed, in order to enforce this vision of fairness, just say so. If you’re not OK with that, explain how a cop can get a cup of joe or take a leak without having to circle a block for half hour waiting for a close enough spot to open up.
Sure, I’d be delighted to help you.
- The officer parked his motorcycle on the sidewalk. The video shows what sure looks like ample parking room just a few steps further away, in the parking lot.
If the parking lot had been fairly crowded, I might buy the argument that the cop’s choices when he arrived were to have parked either on the sidewalk, or far enough away to impede his response to a potential emergency. But it wasn’t, and I don’t.
- Yes, he was trying to scare the kid off, and that counts as bullying in my book.
a) The kid gave the cop his name; that’s as much ID as a 12 year old normally has. The only reason to press for ID repeatedly after that is to try to give the kid the notion that he’d better show some ID to show he belongs there.
b) Bringing up loitering, even more so: why even mention loitering unless you think the kid isn’t from around there, unless you’re trying to make the kid think you can arrest him for loitering for hanging out in front of the building where he lives?
c) Ditto the bit about him not having any business out there now.
These questions aren’t just questions.
Valid by whose definition?
If I think a cop has acted inappropriately, how the hell else am I going to tell the local precinct just which cop I think that of? Now, the cop may disagree with me, and probably does. But if I can’t ask the cop for his badge number when** I** believe his actions are inappropriate, we’ve got a problem.
Now, this kid may have been a smartass, and may have been coached. But he was asking a reasonable question about why a cop can park on the sidewalk. Maybe the cop should have referred him to the department’s PR person or public liaison or ombudsman or whatever. And unless you’re asserting that minors don’t have the same right as adults to ask for a cop’s badge number, AFAIAC the kid had the right to ask for the cop’s badge number.
After all, what was going to happen to the cop if he gave the kid his badge number? Almost certainly nothing. Was his sergeant going to put an official reprimand in his file because he parked on the sidewalk? Hell, no: the sergeant would probably have to reprimand half the cops in town on that basis.
But maybe cops shouldn’t park on the sidewalk when there are perfectly good parking spaces less than ten yards away. Maybe they should obey the law when it’s reasonable for them to do so. I’m willing to cut them slack on a lot of things - for instance, without getting into a discussion of it, I can come up with a pretty good rationale for why they go above the speed limit in non-emergency situations. But I can’t come up with one for automatically parking on the sidewalk, whether there’s available parking spaces nearby or not.
The kid does not drive and thus implicitly is unconcerned with parking concerns, and obviously his path was unimpeded by the motorcycle. This suggests he wanted to badger the police officer. A child can’t get a parking ticket, so he can’t even claim he is upset because he’d have been ticketed in a similar scenario: he isn’t allowed to drive a motorcycle.
So let me confirm: Police officers should have no discretion whatsoever in enforcing the law, yes or no?
Cite policy, you don’t demonstrate you know by living there, you demonstrate you know by citing departmental policy on parking.
What if police and other emergency vehicles in his jurisdiction are exempted from parking regulations? Until we actually know if they are or are not, I don’t see how where he parked can be a known misdeed. Firefighters regularly park right in front of a grocery store when they go in to get food for the station house. This is because when a fire breaks out seconds actually do matter. You know all those people who always speed and drive like maniacs, cut you off in traffic, don’t follow the rules of the raid because they have an “emergency?” Well those people are entitled assholes who usually are just running late for a meeting they knew about three weeks in advance. Firefighters, EMS, and police on the other hand are responding to real emergencies, that’s why they have sirens that make it a legal requirement you yield to them, and why they get to drive over the speed limit when necessary and run traffic lights when necessary. Because in a real emergency (not a personal emergency about missing a meeting or a deadline), seconds actually do count.
The cop didn’t make an argument. For all anyone in this thread knows, observance of parking regulations is up to officer discretion in his jurisdiction.
All he did was ask the kid questions. If the kid considers questions so scary and bullying, why was he asking them in the first place? The kid certainly did not seem afraid whatsoever. Do you thus argue that any citizen can ask a police officer any question but a police officer loses the same right? In a non-custodial situation police can ask anything they want as long as it isn’t some form of sexual harassment, verbal threat or etc. (Which none of the exchange in the video was.)
The police asking for ID is not improper. If he had detained the kid for not producing ID, that’s a different matter. There is no reason a police officer cannot ask you for ID.
Bringing up loitering is not improper. If he had detained the kid for loitering, it would have been. Police are now prohibited from referencing parts of the criminal code while in public?
Ditto the bit about the police officer being allowed to generally have a conversation in which he says more or less what he pleases, when he is not detaining anyone or using any police power to compel answers in any way or threatening anyone.
Since the cop drove away in response to them not being answered, yes they were just questions.
Without knowing badge number presentation requirements of Las Vegas Metro, I can only say that it’s easy for someone with any common sense at all to imagine any number of scenarios where it is unreasonable for police to have to provide a badge number.
So you assume anytime a citizen believes a police officer has acted inappropriately, they have the right to demand identification from the police officer? What if they walk into the station and see a police officer filling out paperwork, and presume he is doing it improperly? That’s a ludicrous claim.
Police aren’t legally required to explain departmental policy or criminal code to people on the street. Nor did the police officer do anything to interfere with the kid’s “right to ask for the badge number.”
Maybe he isn’t required to give his badge number to just any random person, and exercised discretion in not doing so. How would you feel if some random person tried to tell you to do something they had no right to tell you to do at work, and then threw a fit about how you wouldn’t do it? Someone speaking from a position of ignorance about your employer’s policies and etc. No one has demonstrated when and how Las Vegas Metro Police have to provide identification to citizens, nor has anyone demonstrated parking like that is against policy or even against city code (which could explicitly exempt emergency vehicles.)
Parking beside the store is closer than a parking spot, what’s so hard to understand about that? You also have no idea why the police officer was inside the store. Maybe there had been an incident and he was there to take a report, or etc. Maybe he was responding to a shoplifter call. It’s also probably the case with motor police they have a specific concern that their vehicle can be more easily disabled or damaged than a cruiser, someone pushing it over as some childish prank makes it very difficult to respond to an emergency–so perhaps for motorcycle police it is SOP to keep your bike in line of sight and that’s why he parked it where he did. But I find it strange you think it’s a private citizen’s job to enforce parking regulations. In fact, we don’t even know that this was a public sidewalk you do know that not all sidewalks are public property? It could have been some private strip mall with a private parking lot and private walks by the stores, in which case it’s solely the business of the ownership of the strip mall how people park there (sans things like handicap spots etc.)
The kid is a citizen, and therefore should be concerned with lawbreaking in general and police abuse of authority wherever he encounters it. Do you disagree that it is the duty of all citizens to so concerned?
- Provide evidence a law was being broken.
- Answer my question, “Should police enforce all laws without discretion, yes or no?”
This. One of the people in the exchange was technically a grown-up, the other was someone who is clearly at a point in his life where he is forming some opinions about the police. THIS cop did NOT nudge the kid toward the idea that, “Hey, cops can superficially do whatever they want, but they’ve usually got a good reason for being above some laws. And even though they sometimes have closet-gay supermacho mustaches, they’re not unapproachable douchebags.” But then, I’ve spent some time in Las Vegas (amongst the peoples, not just at the playground). I hate that place, and I couldn’t imagine what sort of cop could maintain a positive, unjaded outlook for very long.
Not counting speeding tickets I’ve had I think 5 unwanted conversations with cops. The only one where the cop was a douche was when I was being a bit drunk & disorderly (overly jocular, not mean) in public. I think he was annoyed because I was just another out-of-town drunk college kid. I’d hate me too. In fairness, a couple years later I was having a drunken spat with my GF in a parking lot. The cops showed and were totally cool about it, did some on the spot relationship counseling and gave us a ride home. In general I find they’re more interested in “maintaining public order” than anything else, and you don’t need to be a genius to know it’s easier to insinuate yourself when you’re respectful to everyone no matter how unreasonable they seem.
And one of the people in this exchange had a running video camera, a device that tends to poison the well when it comes to human interactions.
Wowee wow this thread is amazing. It is plain as day to me that the kid did nothing wrong, the kid was a little smartalec, and the cop handled the situation poorly in both a practical and moral sense.
What the cop should have done was say “Here’s my badge number, I park on the sidewalk because I need very quick and easy access in case of an emergency, thank you for your concern and have a nice day.” The end. What the cop did instead showed not just a lack of practical judgment, but a lack of concern for law and order, and a lack of respect for the civilians he serves.
Uh-huh, and I guess working for the government means you’re the bitch of anyone who wants to make you one? I simply disagree–the police could have answered questions he had no requirement to answer, sure. But the kid approached the police officer before even speaking a word with a video camera, he was out to try and embarrass the police officer. Since there was no real criminal activity going on, and the police officer was not doing anything to anyone the simple truth is the kid was harassing him. That poisons the well right there, the police do not have to lick your feet when you’re being rude just because they cash a government paycheck.
He does have an obligation to not act improperly–an obligation he fulfilled. He did nothing to the kid, did not violate his authority in regard to the kid, didn’t detain the kid etc. He just didn’t answer the questions the kid asked, which most likely he had no obligation to answer in the first place.
I mostly agree, except I don’t think kids should be smartalecs to cops. It’s unwise in general, and bad behavior. Both could have done better.
There is a moral requirement here beyond any legal requirements you may be trying to think of.
And the officer allowed himself to be embarrassed. By replying as I suggested, he would not have been embarrassed. If the kid persisted, the cop could then say “I’ve given you my badge number, I assume you know who to call for further inquiries, and I need to leave now.” Still no embarassment.
I said above the kid did “nothing wrong” but that’s a little hyperbolic. If he was being a smartass, there’s at least a little something wrong with that. (But really, in this scenario, just a tiny bit at most I have to say.) But the officer had a much larger responsibility here, and ended up embarassing himself. The officer is the one to blame for this, not the kid.
This is what professionalism is for. Keep your eye on what’s important, know your job inside and out, and have some dignity ferchrissakes.
If a police officer pulls me over, and I know he has his dash cam running, does that give me a reason to be a douche?
I’m sorry, what is the moral requirement? To be someone’s bitch because they walk up to you with a video camera? The police officer gave the kid professional treatment, I always find it funny people think police officers should function as slaves to the public but will get pissed as hell if you imply teachers might need heavy public oversight or etc. The truth is neither profession deserves to be fucked with over doing day to day things, especially when they do not affect any other person. There was no moral responsibility whatsoever to answer that kid’s questions. If there was any responsibility it was a policy one–which has never been demonstrated by anyone.
In what way was the police officer embarrassed? He wasn’t made to look bad, he wasn’t “pwns” as the OP said, he seemed to calmly deal with the kid and leave, end of story. He then retired after what I assume was a full career in LEO months later, and then many months after that this video comes out. So I’d actually say the officer involved didn’t suffer a single negative thing from this incident, and won’t. Nor should he.
In all reality, based on the video, it actually looks like we’re talking about a private parking lot. Not a city street, not a city sidewalk. The police do not enforce the parking regulations of private parking areas, except for handicap spots. That means this whole parking business was between the police officer and the property owner, the kid had absolutely no reason to even address the police officer because unless he owned that parking lot it was not his business how anyone, regardless of their job, parked in it.