12-year old kid pwns a Las Vegas cop

[BrokenBriton]

Very weird sense of entitlement. I’d worry a lot about the culture that allowed that to become embedded in a mature adult serving the community.

[SciFiSam]

@Tequila_Party

I’ve thought about this more. I think the reason I find it slightly unsettling is because, especially in the instance of being filmed, if you can’t understand the need for proper assessment of a situation, your judgment could be off on other, more important situations.

Look at the reactions to the female dispatcher in the resent case of the three kidnapping victims that were just discovered in Cleveland. Obviously, she made the call that it wasn’t dire for her to stay on the line with Amanda Berry, despite the latter’s urgency that her abuser could return any minute. For that woman, she lucked out that nothing bad further happened. However, can you imagine the public outcry, and the possible harm that could’ve befallen the victims, if she had been wrong? Everyone would be yelling for her head instead of passing diversion it is now.

I can easily see, based on his behavior in this video, this officer being so complacent with his job that he could make a costly mistake. It happens. I also wonder, since it’s been mentioned repeatedly, if there might of been a reason for his retirement? Of course, we’ll never know. But it’s certainly not unheard of that people ‘voluntarily’ leave their jobs when others believe there is a prudent reason to do so.

If the video showed anything, it’s that the officer is calm when someone’s trying to wind him up. That’s a good trait. There was no “poor judgment” from which to extrapolate that he’s a bad cop.

He also looks to be about the normal age for retirement from the police. You’re clutching at straws here.

[Martin_Hyde]

@Snowboarder_Bo

…and the money quote:

You’ve spent most of the thread arguing that the kid had no right or reason to approach the officer and ask him a question because he was doing something that cops are permitted to do by virtue of being cops, then you think that police are “inherently subject to public scrutiny” when “using their police power”.

Ignoring how you declared the sidewalk to be private property and thus no foul was committed (prolly twice over not committed, is how I suspect you think), your arguments, besides seeming myopically sycophantic with regards to authorities, are now contradictory.

I have genuine opinions, not argumentative opinions. That means as I reevaluate something I change my mind. After rewatching the video it struck me as patently obvious, “this guy isn’t on the sidewalk of the city street, it’s a private walk.” Maybe because I actually own through my business strip malls and such I’m more cognizant of this than most people–but police do not enforce parking in such places. The only exceptions are for handicap spots, and some lots (none of ours) off-duty police are hired to monitor and enforce the owner’s rules but that’s not the same as enforcing traffic law or parking law. It’s instead similar to a bar bouncer or store security guard enforcing the business owner’s rules (you’ll see this in much larger shopping areas which have huge volumes of traffic.)

You bring up a good point I had not before considered, if this was a public sidewalk and the police officer was parking there it would be using if not police power “police privilege” which also might be valid to question. But that doesn’t actually undermine any of my key points, because I said police should be scrutinized when they use police power. I did not say police had a universal obligation to answer that scrutiny. There are established systems in place for scrutinizing police misuse of power, and if this kid was actually concerned about it he could have taken his video to the police department (and by the way, they’d have no problem identifying this guy despite his not giving his badge number, even a big city like Las Vegas only has around 3000 or so sworn officers and even smaller numbers than that are motorcycle police.) I never said that even when using police power the police have a universal obligation to stop and answer all citizen questions.

In fact, such an obligation would defy common sense, as many times police simply have no time to stop and explain random inquiries, even if those inquiries are valid.

Of course, at the end of the day you are not someone I’m really interested in having a conversation with. You have a history of posting stuff where no matter the situation you hate on the police. That means you are not actually willing to consider alternative opinions, I’m interested in this thread, but not in conversing with you whatsoever, and will not do so further in this thread. It is not a productive use of my time.

[Martin_Hyde]

@SciFiSam

If the video showed anything, it’s that the officer is calm when someone’s trying to wind him up. That’s a good trait. There was no “poor judgment” from which to extrapolate that he’s a bad cop.

He also looks to be about the normal age for retirement from the police. You’re clutching at straws here.

Yup, most police start in their early 20s and most departments you can collect a full pension after 20 years. He looks like he’s got his 20 and maybe even then some. Most of them then retire and get another job and work into their mid-50s because it allows them to either work part-time but actually take home more than they were before, or work full time and bring home substantially more than they were before (from new full time job + pension.)

[Tequila_Party]

@BrokenBriton

Very weird sense of entitlement. I’d worry a lot about the culture that allowed that to become embedded in a mature adult serving the community.

Exactly what I was getting at. And now I’m tired of talking past police apologetics. Off to more interestingly diverse threads.

[Superdude]

@RTFirefly

In what jurisdiction do they do this? I’ve never seen an instance of this that I can recall. For the past 15 years, I’ve been shopping at the grocery store that’s by far the nearest grocery to the local volunteer fire department; I’m down there once or twice a week. Never seen any of their vehicles parked in front.

<snipping mine>

I generally stay out of Great Debates, because I have a real problem with being able to articulate my thoughts, and I usually feel way outgunned. But I’d like to address the above part of this post.

I’m an EMT. One company I was employed with had us working 24 hour shifts, with access to a station where we could eat/sleep/watch TV.

We generally park in the fire lane at the local grocery store, for a couple of reasons. One (depending on the squad we’re assigned), the ambulance may not fit “comfortably” in a standard parking space. The company uses a couple of different styles of ambulance, like the ones seen on this page.

But we also park in the fire lane because it’s right outside the entrance to the store, and we need to be able to access it quickly if we receive a call. In the area of the country where I live (southern Indiana/Louisville, KY metro area), it’s not unusual to also see fire trucks or police vehicles parked there, also. And for the same reasons.

I’ll concede that a police vehicle can fit into a standard parking spot easier than a fire truck, but my point still stands: it’s not out of the norm to see an emergency vehicle parked in a fire lane around here. I’ve only seen a situation where an emergency vehicle was asked to not park in a fire lane ONE time.

I know (from personal experience) that, when a member of the public approaches you with a camera rolling, it can automatically put you on the defensive. And that can come across as evading an answer, rudeness, unprofessionalism, etc. In short, the things that many in this thread are accusing this officer of.

Could the officer have handled things better? Sure. But he was really under no obligation to do so. That said, I can see both sides of this issue.

[emoticorpse]

Yeah, I think this kid was just looking for some attention the annoying way. The cop could read this kid from a mile away, I mean if the kid had a a question he could have simply asked it without taping it, but the fact that he is getting a video speaks for itself, at least in my opinion. I think that’s the main reason the cop reacted the way he did, I mean the kid may very well have a legal right to get him on camera, but I don’t think it was called for, when you begin taping a situation before a situation takes place you’re basically looking to get something, and if you’re looking to get something you’re most likely instigating even if to a minor degree. I would react the same way if someone was all up in my face taping me for something trivial, and even though he’s a cop he still gets annoyed at stuff, you can’t turn that off simply because you put a uniform on, it’s the kid that has to learn what most adults have learned by the time they are adults.

[UltraVires]

I can see one of two situations:

1. The parking law exempts law enforcement officers acting even in non-emergency situations.

2. The parking law does not exempt LEOs in non-emergency situations.

If #1, the cop should have simply told that to the kid. If #2, then the kid was absolutely right to question the police for breaking the damn law. Are police an elite class who may break the law without reproach?

Either way, it is simply a citizen (even if a smug little smart assed one) questioning whether people who are to enforce the law, are actually obeying the law.

Now, maybe it is a bad law and police should have the discretion to violate parking laws. Take that up with city council. Until it changes the ordinance, the cops have to follow the law like we all do.

[Frylock]

I never agreed with jtgain before.

[Atarii]

@Snowboarder_Bo

The officer is fishing for a reason to harass the kid: asks for ID, asks what he’s doing there, accuses him of loitering, etc.

What did the kid say or do that makes you say he “sounds like a smartass”?

The cop was, in my opinion, just hedging defensively.
He was trying to say, “See? You don’t have I.D., you’re not TECHNICALLY conducting business; you’re no better than I am!”

[Frylock]

@Atarii

The cop was, in my opinion, just hedging defensively.
He was trying to say, “See? You don’t have I.D., you’re not TECHNICALLY conducting business; you’re no better than I am!”

Yes, that’s what the cop was doing, and it’s exactly what he shouldn’t have been doing. An adult shouldn’t verbally spar with a 12 year old–the 12 year old may win, making the adult look foolish, or the 12 year old may lose, but is sure not to recognize this, and if he does recognize it, will not have the maturity to understand the significance of the loss.

Just answer the question, and if answering gets in the way of doing your job, then be on your way. It’s silly and embarrasing to do anything else but this.

[UltraVires]

@Atarii

The cop was, in my opinion, just hedging defensively.
He was trying to say, “See? You don’t have I.D., you’re not TECHNICALLY conducting business; you’re no better than I am!”

I’m not following you. If I don’t have a driver’s license or other form of identification, then I can’t be conducting business? I can’t mail something, buy a sandwich, walk to the grocery store, or a number of other things? I don’t understand the “you don’t have an I.D., you can’t be conducting business” schtick.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Clearly the cop didn’t really understand the law with respect to having ID either which is really funny considering that the SCOTUS decision regarding a citizen’s responsibility to identify themselves to an officer came about because of a Nevada case (Hiibel, for those that don’t follow this sort of thing too closely).