There is no longer an excuse to deny Ireland test status.
That’s one of the best “kiss of death” calls I’ve ever heard!
ODIs are a different beast to Test matches but there seems little argument that Ireland would likely be more competitive than Zimbabwe or Bangladesh were they to be raised to that level. They could do with bowlers that do a bit more than dob it down in military medium but I thought they looked really sharp in the field yesterday and they batted well to chase down the score. Knocking off 4 Test match nations in 3 tournaments (and they are going to cause Zimbabwe and Pakistan some problems too likely) should, at minimum, have the ICC thinking about the plan to alter the structure of the tournament. How are any of the other nations going to break through if they don’t get opportunities like this every 4 years to stake a claim?
The ICC exists for one reason, which is to make the BCCI and its bum boys, CA and ECB more money. Its not about the good of the game. There is no money in Ireland.
I disagree with the whole ODI v Tests issue. While it has merits for individual players it does not hold true for teams. Ireland has defeated big nations in almost every tournament it has played in.
I’d say “continues to exist”, but otherwise you’ve pretty much nailed it. The first, last, and only question is “what will they pay for the TV rights in India?”
Has anyone looked up Ireland’s ODI record over the last 10 years or so, compared to Zimbabwe or Bangladesh? (And, frankly, you’d be hard put to be less competitive at Test level than Bangladesh).
Stats-you-won’t-believe edition: There have been exactly five successful chases of 300+ in World Cups. Three of them by Ireland.
(Prediction: In the next couple of weeks the first number is going to get significantly higher. The second one may well go up too.)
We will have to agree to differ then. At Test match level, Ireland’s bowlers would get taken to the cleaners by everyone bar Zimbabwe and Bangladesh - even the Windies have guys that would just wait them out - the reason that they are able to get good results in ODIs is because teams must score runs reasonably quickly, so must take chances; this helps Ireland get wickets. And it’s a total red herring to say that they have “defeated big nations in almost every tournament it has played in” - all those tournaments are limited overs tournaments; it doesn’t tell us much about their Test match chances.
I’d like to see Ireland given some opportunities in the longer form of the game. England, at minimum, should schedule a 5 day game against them and it would be good to see Bangladesh play them too. There would be no money in the Indian rights for these games but England v Ireland could generate decent money up here for a start.
Thats more than a little unfair. In what other capacity can Ireland play a top team in cricket matches which matter?
Do you really think a FC match with an England XI will be a better assessment of Irish skill than a WC game?
A match which would have no value for any of the England players. Unlike Irelands WC wins. And most of the Irish team has extensive FC and ListA experience so its not like the longer form is alien to them.
I know BDs elevation when they were far from ready has made people shy, but that was for political reasons. Ireland is demanding a place on the table on pure cricketing merits.
It really isn’t unfair to make that judgement. Bangladesh might have been elevated for political reasons, but they illustrate cogently the problem of elevating teams before they are ready for that form of the game. It’s why caution is best advised and elevating on the basis of 4 results in limited overs cricket over the course of several years is not sensible. There has to be a long term plan that indicates that Ireland will turn out quality cricketers at Test Match level over the coming years - otherwise, in a few years time, they’re going to be another very weak nation, used as fodder for Indian batsmen to score triple hundreds against (as that will be the only way that their TV rights will be worth anything).
If anything is unfair, it’s that the ICC have no clear path for improving these nations - and indeed are looking to reduce their opportunities in the future. I would want to see Ireland elevated - but only if it actually is worthwhile, both for them and the game. If the ICC won’t do it, it’s why I advocate that England take the bull by the horns and do it themselves.
And the idea that 5 day games against England would have no value to the English is asinine; they would not want to lose in what would be a serious upset. The Irish, needless to say, would be desperate for a win. There would be more of interest riding on that game in this country then when England play Test Matches against virtually any nation outside Australia, South Africa, India or Pakistan (and in the latter case, that’s more because we have a real problem with beating Pakistan, especially outside England). Your viewpoint also ignores the fact that England already play Scotland and Ireland reasonably regularly in one day cricket - so clearly the fixtures are deemed to be of value, else they wouldn’t be playing them now.
Would you disagree with the least few elevations? There have been three since the 1930’s (I’ll ignore Pakistan, that was essentially a splitting of the erstwhile British India team).
Bangladesh: Totally Politically motivated, probably Kenya was a better team than them at the time. Forced through by the sub continent because they wanted BD’s vote.
Zimbabwe: In 1993. After a decade and a half of consistent performances in ICC Competition. Beat both England and Australia in WC matches, in the case of England, the same year England were beaten finalists. Did well enough for 10 years after getting Test Status, beat Pakistan and India in series. Imploded after 2005, due to political rather than cricketing reasons.
Sri Lanka: Beat India in the 1979 WC. Rather like Ireland, a long established Cricket culture and regularly played FC matches against teams from the Sub continent. Struggled first decade after. Have done rather well since.
I don’t doubt if Ireland get Test Status, they won’t struggle for a while. All new teams have (again ignoring the rather special case of Pakistan). Ignoring Ireland’s WC results (as well as World T20 ones) is basically denying them the use of the same metric which led to the elevations of virtually every other nation in the modern era. Also, the Irish have at least as good a position now, as at least Sri Lanka or Zimbabwe were.
Plus, unlike anybody else, the Irish have a ready made rivalry with England.
Ireland should be playing full ODI tours, in my opinion, but there is no way they are ready for test cricket. They don’t have a first class setup in Ireland yet, although I understand that that is on its way. Without a first class setup that Cricket Ireland have some control over - so not the English county game - they have no real prospect of getting test status.
They have applied to be full members of the ICC, and I think they should be granted that. Test status should not be necessary to get that.
Surely you mean “like everybody else”?
Have I been wooshed?
Very well, I’ll rephrase that.
“It’s a simple game really isn’t it? Bat first, score 300+ (350+ if playing against Ireland) and watch the chasing team implode.”
Only the one game today, Scotland v New Zealand. I’ll not make any predictions for fear of making any more curses.
Scotland are not in the same league as Ireland, and New Zealand are a step or two above the West Indies. I can’t see them struggling.
If by “not in the same league” you mean beat them by 170+ runs last week then I agree with you.
Only a warm-up game but still that’s a hell of a thrashing.
Ugh New Zealand looking awful chasing a low total. 137 for 6
Thats what I love about the game. NZ, hammered the team which got to two previous finals (beating the Kiwis in the Semis each time) and yet struggled against the…Scots.
Are Ireland and Scotland showing that the gap between the associates and the established teams is not as big as it was?
Today Afghanistan start their tournament against Bangladesh. I think they’ve got adecent chance of getting a win. There’s a nice article about Afghanistan’s rise on cricinfo here.
Tim Southee has just destroyed England, as they collapse for 123 all out - 19 less than Scotland.
My gawd - England were just awful, giving wickets away. I didn’t expect them to do well, but this …
AUS vs NZ is going to be some game … !
McCullum in a hurry 57 off the first 4 overs.
Worst performance by any team this world cup.
Not a big cricket fan but I do enjoy watching the Poms suffer.
Don’t worry England it’ll be over soon. 
