LOL
Since we want to be gender neutral in how we approach tennis and attack double standards, here’s a thought experiment:
What would the #MeToo/#TimesUp movement have to say if a top male player had never even been suspended from tennis or made to take anger management classes after menacing a tiny older woman the way Serena did in 2009? What if that same top men’s player had also said those things about the Steubenville rape case?
:dubious:
I think Serena’s case collapses once her coach contradicts her on the coaching-during-the-match violation.
She was clearly upset about that, and this reaction led to the other problems. It turns out she was wrong, and Ramos was right. She bears the lion’s share of responsibility for what ensued.
(Er, am I allowed to use “lion’s share” here?)
It’s not too far from that in the NFL actually. Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalties can come from that behavior. It’s very common over the last handful of years. Maybe not every time but they can and do penalize players for it.
Re: “The seriousness of the offense here is not (or, at least, should not be) based on whether she uses foul language; it’s the fact that she basically made a direct accusation of cheating. By calling the umpire a thief, the clear implication is that he’s made a deliberate effort to circumvent or ignore the rules and unfairly deprive Williams of an opportunity to win the match.”
This says it better than I could have, and bears repeating, I think. In the instances I’ve seen about Ramos and male players, he has been accused essentially of missing a call, or interpreting a rule incorrectly, not in intentionally trying to affect the outcome of a match. I’ve asked for examples where a man insulted Ramos’ integrity and character and DID NOT get a penalty on other social media, but didn’t get any.
One more thing while I’m here: can we not stipulate that threatening to shove a ball down someone’s throat is at the very least, evidence that Serena has for at least once in her life been guilty of “low character”? And further, to accuse someone of being bigoted for calling into question that character, when quite frankly it’s been exhibited more than once, is simply ridiculous?
As has been pointed out, there is no requirement that the player actually receives the coaching. Therefore, the whole of this response can be ignored.
Hm, I watch a lot of tennis, and I know about the coaching rule. I just can’t remember ever seeing it invoked against a male player. I’ve rarely seen it invoked on anybody, and yet I’ve seen a lot of what really looks like coaching.
But it’s a weird rule, because you have the player’s box. A lot of players look to their box after every point. Any gesture from the box could be a secret coaching signal. Thumbs up with the left hand means go for the opponent’s backhand? Nobody knows but the player.
So, if coaching is absolutely not allowed, then the coaches should be made to watch the match from a spot where the player can’t see them. But then, as mentioned, there’s the player’s box. If a random audience member yells out “Go to the net!” it’s obviously not coaching, but if someone in the player’s box says it, it could be.
It really seems more sensible, if you’re going to have this rule, to remove the coach rather than penalize the player. (Which has happened, I believe for a fairly young player who was coached by her dad, and her dad was removed, or banned. Something like that. But I don’t think anybody ever kicked out Uncle Tony.)
I for one feel sorry for Pete Sampras, when he won his 14th Grand Slam in 2002, beating the previous record of 13, he probably did not think that within 20 years 3 players would equal or surpass his record…
//i\
I remember that and I, too, thought Sampras was not only the all-time great, but perhaps would be for years to come.
Is there someone to outshine Federer, Dojokovic, and Nadal? Someone who can do even more than they have?
When you watch other sports like basketball, when the opponent starts gaining momentum the coach usually calls a time out to re-set his team and get the other team off their rhythm.
Watching this live it seemed like Serena noticed Osaka gaining moment and finding her rhythm and used the violation as an opportunity to halt the game and throw a tantrum. It seemed like a stall tactic to me.
Also seemed like maybe she knew she was beat and went really hard into the mid game drama so she could use it as an excuse after the game.
Am I the only one who is impressed/surprised/shocked by her physical appearance these days? She’s even more muscular and intimidating than I’ve ever seen her. Her face and head seem larger. What is professional tennis’s drug testing policies? (This is an honest observation and question, please don’t eviscerate me).
She’s rather famously tested significantly more often than most other players, and she’s never failed a test.
Ok thanks. I should have clarified my question, are there current testing methods in use for non-steroidal performance-enhancing drugs like human growth hormone, insulin, etc?
I don’t know that one.
what I thought was trash was what was said at the trophy ceremony
Note this is the ny post ……. It's shameful what US Open did to Naomi Osaka
I mean who makes the winner apologize for anything ?
If I was a sponsor and seen this crap id be looking to other sports ………
I totally respect Serena as a player, and it’s not even a debate that she’s arguably the best female tennis player ever. And pound-for-pound, maybe the best tennis player ever, regardless of gender.
But part of being a professional athlete is keeping composure. She lost it. And in any case, she was outplayed from start to finish by Osaka. Her behavior was unacceptable. There isn’t really much to discuss beyond that.
Actually, the umpire of the match in question has in the past penalized several high-profile male tennis players for the same thing, according to an article I read today on the subject.
All of what everyone is saying about this is basically irrelevant. Maybe the rule should be changed. Maybe it’s not always enforced. These are not relevant to the point at hand. Serena’s coach was coaching her, in violation of the rules. We must presume that he was doing so with the acquiescence of Ms. Williams. She was punished for this with a code violation. At that point, all that she got was a warning. Had she not done anything else, it wouldn’t have mattered to the match. But she chose this issue to have a complete melt-down over. It cost her a game, which was certainly a stupid thing for her to do, if her goal was to maximize her chances of winning.
You could omit “arguably”.
Probably not. She is, for example, bigger than Rod Laver.
Yeah, it’s pretty amazing. OTOH Sampras never won the French, so I’m glad the three you are referring to are all more well-rounded players who each have a “career Slam”.
Also, along with his weakness on clay, Sampras also had a pretty weak backhand—another way in which he wasn’t so well-rounded. I really love a pretty one-handed backhand stroke (like Federer’s or his countryman Wawrinka’s; Thiem’s is also nice), so Federer is clearly the GOAT in my book for that reason and many others.
Sampras is a greater player than either Djoker or Rafa.
Only because she has gotten some fairly controversial Therapeutic Use Exemptions., retroactively.
Tennis anti-doping regime is laughable..
There are several players both male and female who I’d bet the house were on the juice.
Lance Armstrong never failed a test either. Or Marion Jones. That means sweet fuck all.