Seconded.
I had Susan Atkins on my list one year at Fathom (the year I won, which is remarkable, because usually, not a single person on my list, here or at Fathom has ever died).
No one questioned her, although a few people commented that they didn’t know who she was, but I think they skewed young. There were several people who said they knew the name, but couldn’t place it.
She was a member of the Manson “family.” She was the one who wrote PIG on the front door of the Folger house in Sharon Tate’s blood, and also the one who confessed the Tate-La Bianca murders to another inmate when some of the family was arrested on suspicion of auto theft-- that inmate went as fast as she could to someone to exchange the information for her release.
I guess “celebrity” might not be quite the word for her notoriety, but no one challenged her.
I think the lists ought to stand unless someone makes a challenge, then it can be case-by-case, with the death mistress just deciding, or possibility putting it to a vote (or even polling just to see who has heard of someone).
I have the two remaining Dionne quintuplets on my list. The are not terribly famous now, but in their time, they were as famous as Taylor Swift, and 95% of Canada’s tourist trade.
It’s perfectly fair, IMO, to list someone famous once upon a time, even if not terribly well-remembered. It’s a self-limiting problem, since it isn’t like anyone is going to nominate Perkin Warbeck, and it’s all right to say that someone famous 40 years ago is still a “celebrity.”
Assumes facts not in evidence. Just how many different people are placed in the Pool?
And we’re asking our Death Mistress (or someone else who won’t know what they’re getting into) to not just set up a database, but verify every single name on it.
If someone wants to challenge a “celebrity’s” worthiness, let them them do it when the death is posted on this Board, and let the Teemings vote on it then.
Really, IMO, this is a lot of overkill. The Pool is not broken. Let’s not keep trying to fix it.
Thank you. These posts are all solutions in search of a problem.
Seconded.
though it would be such an interesting problem, particularly if we get some evil posters to join the plot and manage to get them to conspire to manipulate wikipedia and then random non-celebrities in the evil poster’s lists start dying of unexplainable causes. Extra points if the deaths are truly spectacular or gruesome or include zombies.
OK, I’ll be going now, if you don’t mind. Yes I know the way, thanks.
It’s a bit of a problem. When RQ was winning the pool while breaking the definition of celebrity it drove people away. It nearly drove me away. In the end the discussion about it drove RQ away.
I’ve had the opportunity to pick local politicians and local notable people for points. I didn’t. I purposely only pick people I knew before or well known people I find out about organically. I would rather get zero points than have people pissed off at my choices. Takes the fun out of it.
I disagree. There should be a definitive rule for what constitutes a celebrity, or a defined method of determining how to resolve specific grey areas.
Saying that something is not broken does not make it not broken.
Where is the harm of adopting this rule:
mmm
I do appreciate that people care about this game. I have been considering next year (already!) and I have come to the conclusion that any major change is not needed. We have done this game for a LONG time and only once, about fifteen years ago or more was the definition of celebrity an issue. That time was why we now have the “famous for being sick” rule.
While I like many of the respnses, like that from RivkahChaya, I think my favorite is that from kayT This game isn’t broken.
But no voting; I really think that could start resentments. If anyone gets blamed for problems it should be the DeathMistress.
And think of it this way, if the pick in question had not put the player in first place would anyone have cared? If it had been a ninety year old with ten points would it have mattered?
I like this game and want to see it continued. It’s fun, and sometimes I learn a lot.
Thank you, Baker. You’re the best!
Uh, I said this awhile back and obviously heartily agree. Not trying to moderate when I’m not a moderator, but if people really think this is an issue, maybe start a thread?
NOT an issue in my opinion, though. Been doing Death Pool since 2003 and everyone seems to just go with the honor code.
I think this is the overwhelming opinion. It’s just talk to talk.
The game is fine!
Fair enough, it’s all good.
mmm
That’s what happened with me. Two of the people I listed were Claire Wilcox and Kym Karath. Are they well known names in 2024? No. But I was building a theme around a series of movies and they are the top billed surviving cast members from two movies made in 1962 and 1963. Wilcox has seventeen credits on IMDB and Karath has nineteen - but neither has a credit more recent than 1981.
There have been several threads over the years. It’s always reached the same conclusion. No one wants to judge. Some will continue to push the definition of celebrity. Some will continue to be bothered by it. Most won’t care. The honor system works until it doesn’t.
I once had a woman named Alicia Rhett on a list of very old celebrities. Know her? She was the last surviving speaking cast member of Gone With the Wind. She played India Wilkes, Ashley’s sister, the one who despised Scarlett. Her only movie role, she was known as a fine artist, and went back to painting after the one role made her famous for a while. She didn’t get me her one point though, she died two days after that years game had ended, grumble.
But…but…the stakes are so high here!! The Fate Of Nations hangs on this!
I disagree. There are seven people on our town council. I’d bet most people in my town would be hard pressed to name three. Same deal with our county government. These people are NOT celebrities.
I don’t think we should have hard and fast rules, because there’s so much gray territory here. But something like “does it seem likely that a million people would at least recognize this name as one they’ve heard” might be a good guideline. Obviously there’s no way we could know for sure, it would still come down to judgment calls, but if it struck most of us as extremely unlikely that that name would register with that many people, we could at least eliminate a bunch of largely obscure people who might have some local following.
ETA: My grandfather was unquestionably a celebrity in Arkansas City, KS, but beyond that, not so much. If there’d been a Death Pool forty years ago, I wouldn’t have even considered entering his name.
Every time I see a large number of new posts here I think, “Yay! Somebody died!” Then it turns out to be a boring old discussion of the rules. Maybe there could be a separate post for that? I’m trying to get points over here.