25 Years?!?! Here’s a movie I watched when it first came out. You show me that it is now a quarter of a century old.
How I feel?
Old… worn out.
4 versions?!?
It was the best of movies, it was the worst of movies. Message, Malodorous?
Lots of people have birthdays. Why are we treating yours like a funeral?
Nice to see the King still loves Trek Doping, btw. Likewise for you other old timer Trek Dopers.
The Kobayashi Maru scene was a real shocker the first time I saw it (opening day about 10:00am). Well, by the time everybody was buying it, we figured is was a simulation, but still, it had us going for a minute.
Carne asada.
Carne
Carne
Heh, guess it’s hard to recognize that quote without the inflection. It’s from the Seinfeld episode where Jerry steals Kirk’s speech at the end of ST:II for a friends funeral (“of all the souls I have encounterd during my travels, his was the most…human”). He justifies it with the “best of those movies” phrase several times during the course of the show.
Offhand, I know of 3: the original theatrical release, the TV version (which was the first explanation some got of why Scotty was so torn up over Peter Preston’s death), and the DVD release, which is a little of both, IIRC.
I think he got it off of one of the crew he stranded on Ceti Alpha V. Unless that pic is from his initial encounter with Chekov. In which case he probably carved himself while fantasizing about killing Kirk with his bare hands.
I always figured it was from his wife… who served on the Enterprise.
That’s an excellent point, actually.
The first time I saw “The Wrath of Khan” I’d never seen “Space Seed,” although I knew Khan was an old series villian, and so I saw it from a somewhat fresh perspective. I found the Khan villian remarkably effective for this very reason; his motivation and hatred seemed so real and likely and, consequently, far more frightening.
One of the problems with many of the other films is the absence of a good villian. In “Generations” they trot out trusty old Malcolm McDowell to rant and rave about a “nexus” that you never saw before, will never see again, and don’t care about. In “Insurrection” they battle some ugly alien dudes you never saw before, never will again, and don’t care about. In “Nemesis” there’s this bald dude you never saw before, never will again, and don’t care about. In “Final Frontier” here’s this Vulcan dude you never saw before, never will again, and don’t care about. Most have ridiculous, grandiose plans that destroy/enslave the planet/universe/quadrant/galaxy or whatever. All have forgettable Star Trek style names: Shinzon, Soran, Sybok. In one movie the antagonist, such as it is, is a gigantic dildo that likes whales and is limitlessly powerful. You never saw it before, never will again, and don’t care. It’s impossible to relate to any of these villians because their motivations are either just silly or they’re completely unrecognizable to a normal person.
Khan works because, first of all, he’s got backstory; they don’t just make up a rent-a-villian, but get one that really gave Kirk some shit before. And he’s not out to destroy the planet/solar system/universe; he’s out to kill Kirk and anyone who stands between him and that goal. And he’s got a reason to hate Kirk. And actually, it’s kind of a good reason in some ways. Why DIDN’T Kirk check to make sure they were okay, or at least drop a line to someone to let them know he’d force-colonized a planet, hmm? Kirk fucked him over, and now he’s gonna repay the favour. And the movie then leads us to a battle of wits between two smart adversaries, and that’s always a fun thing to watch.
In addition with presenting the viewer with the only really human villian the movies have to offer, it humanizes everyone else, too. The Kobayashi Maru scene, aside from foreshadowing the no-win-scenario theme, presents us with the mundanity (and yet coolness) of Starfleet people doing what servicepeople really do spend most of their time on; training. Kirk has an ordinary, and lonely, apartment. He has a birthday and, like a lot of old people, doesn’t like it. The crew is getting old and the kids are going to replace their wrinkled asses. Scientists work diligently on a project. They play cards. One of them hates the military. Then a really bad man comes along whose heart is filled with anger and hate because he got screwed over and his wife was killed, and in blind rage he kills a bunch of people who didn’t deserve it, either. It’s a world you can actually picture existing someday because it’s full or real people doing things real people do… just in the future.
And so you can relate to it. And BELIEVE it. And that’s what makes it so good.
Yeah, I know the quote. 
The line I remember about the cold cuts was a Tony Soprano malaprop from last season, I believe. Melfi told Tony the quote in one of their sessions, (leaving out the Star Trek reference) and later, when discussing it with one of his lieutenants, IIRC, Tony misquoted it as “revenge is like a dish of cold cuts.”
And of course, I should Google first, then post. It was from the episode “Cold Cuts” and was spoken by Tony in a session with Dr. Melfi, to which she corrects his quote.
Tony: You know what they say, “Revenge is like serving cold cuts.”
Dr. Melfi: I think it’s, “Revenge is a dish best served cold.”
Tony: So, what’d I say?
Kirk would have had to explain what happened to McGiver, and perhaps the authorites would have to stick Khan in Quantanimo, or try him for war crimes.
G-d, I love making excuses for Trek…
For some reason the whole of Starfleet adopted the insignia of the starship Enterprise (in TOS, each ship or starbase had its own insignia) so he probably took it from the Enterprise in Space Seed. I would imagine that Kirk wouldn’t just shove Khan and his crew on the surface of Ceti Alpha 5 with only the contents of an old freighter.
Montalban did a great service to Trek in his role as Khan (both in the series and the film) Kirk’s unforgettable “Khaaaan!” helps you almost forget what Khan says before to make him so angry. There’s something about the delight that Khan feels taunting Kirk with burial alive that he brings across so well. “Buried alive… buried alive…”
Don’t want you to be unprepared, Khan, take some of these shiny things. Spock, let’s hand out some of these to the crew in lieu of pay…
I don’t think it’s delight, I think it is a white hot consuming anger honed over the years as Khan believed that Kirk was responsible for the death of McGiver and all his other difficulties.
Ahem, I meant that perhaps they picked up some surplus clothing to replace the un-funky red jump suits they came in.
Bah. When Khan was dumped on that ball of rock he was understood to have aligned himself with Milton’s Satan: “Better to rule in Hell than serve in Heaven”. Then the big pantywaist comes over all unnecessary because Hell turned out to be, gasp, hellish, for reasons no-one could have known at the time. Some big badassed dude he turned out to be. :rolleyes: He could’ve lived a nice 23rd-century life of luxury if he’d been prepared to play nice.
“No, no, I’m a big tough super-man - maroon me on this deserted planet, I’ll be fine. Only make sure you leave the light on in case it gets dark and I stub my toe.” Pussy.
What I remember from the DVD commentary is (1) how, after ST1, they were working with a much more limited budget (which makes me think that maybe all sci-fi movies should have limited budgets and focus on good scripts and characters), and (2) how he had Shatner do take after take after take until he was too worn out to overact.
Bah! the tiger does not ask the monkeys if he may live in the jungle! He goes where he wants and lets the monkeys ask permission!
But you’re right. If Khan really wanted to get revenge, he could have played nice to the people who picked him up and gotten a free lift to civilization. Then, once he was back in town, he could have told the press how Kirk had marooned him and ruined Kirks career. Once Khan had gotten a huge settlement out of Starfleet, he’d be all set to start building a power base. Thence to glory and power (and an ex-Admirals body in a shallow grave)! But no. He had to just start with the hitting and shooting and ruined his reputation right out of the gate.
But what was he looking for revenge for? He’d got what he wanted - a place of his own to live without asking anyone’s leave - and it was offered and accepted in good faith. He betrayed his own macho code by getting a stick up his ass about Kirk just because things went sour. He wanted no part of the crybaby Federation: very well, then he had no case for expecting the Federation to stop by every five minutes to see if he’d peed his pants. 
That’s true. If Ceti Alpha 6 had not exploded, he’d be living as president for life with his wife on his own little planet. But I doubt that he saw it that way.