Not really. About the most you are going to get out of a standard double-stack mag of 9mm is 14 shots (13+1). I haven’t watched the video, but I assume someone would have commented if his pistol had an extended magazine in it.
It really depends. 17 for the Glock 17, 18 for the CZ Shadow, 17 for the FNX and M&P 2.0
All are fairly typical, for full-sized 9mm pistol regular magazine capacities. Gamers can get sillier, of course, with counts in the mid to high 20s.
Don’t forget about the Glock 17. Or the Beretta 92.
I counted, but don’t remember if it was 11 or 12.
After spraying a few, guy walks right up to the woman, pumps 2 into her. Then walks to the guy, fires 1 more.
My impression is he ran out of ammo. The, he heads back to his house and, instead of getting another clip, he comes out with the heavy weaponry.
Hadn’t caught that. Thought the houses looked awfully large. I agree - not meaning to suggest any class-based hypo. People rich or poor can be jerks or violent.
I guess I considered the possibility that something extreme about the houses’ exteriors might suggest some partial explanation. Kinda like when you walk down a street and see one huge privacy fence you think, “Hmm, something was going on between those 2 neighbors.” Of if only one house has a car up on blocks and trash in the yard you might think, “The neighbors must love that!”
The shooter’s home looked like just about the newest/nicest home on the block. It is conceivable (no evidence this applies to this case) that someone gentrifying might complain about existing behaviors in a neighborhood they moved into.
This is a gigantic thread, to cover two people who pushed a guy hard enough that he snapped, and decided to go commit a double-murder. It doesn’t look like a very complicated situation to me. The Goys obviously never thought the shooter would respond the way he did, and didn’t think so even after seeing him return with a pistol.
Running away likely saves their lives. (Or the shooter kicks in their door and still kills them. Hey, you tried.) But for people like the Goys, I doubt running away was ever a consideration until the first bullets actually hit them.
Don’t be like them. Try to avoid confrontation in the first place, but if you do end up having one, and the guy you had it with starts returning to you, watch his hands and what they’re doing. Maybe an apology would have worked? Maybe running? Continuing to yell at the shooter most definitely did not.
How tragic for everyone’s families. Especially the Goy’s son.
As I said above, it was 12. The last one was to Goy as he lay in front of his house. Since he was still alive after that shot, that could imply that Spaide was out of bullets.
I wonder if Spaide might not have already decided to commit suicide before he came out for the second time. He realized he was going to prison in any case, and decided to finish the job. (On the other hand, he was seen pacing inside his house afterward, so maybe he made up his mind then.)
In the “assumes facts not in evidence” vein, how do you know it wasn’t the other way around? How do you know murdering asshole guy didn’t push these two “very nice people” into finally snapping at him? And then when they did, he decided to one-up and gun them down? And the “very nice people” were so surprised, and already so boiling over with rage and shock, that they just didn’t respond in time to the signals?
Do nice people verbally assault people when asked not to shovel snow on their property for the second time ?
Google maps indicates that house is two separate addresses, 13 and 15 W Bergh, with two separate entrances. Goy ran to the door on the left, #13. The door on the right probably leads to the upstairs apartment. The house isn’t all that big to begin with, and if the Goys had only part of the bottom floor it wouldn’t be much space. The surveillance camera is on the second floor, and probably owned by the other family. That may explain how the news media got the footage. The Goy family has already objected to the footage being made public.
You really are trying much to hard to cast doubt on the fact that the Goys were the aggressors here. As has been repeatedly mentioned, witness accounts say that the Goys started the confrontation by shoveling snow onto Spaide’s property. While he did curse them out, their response to that was over the top.
No, we can’t be sure exactly what happened beforehand. But we do have some facts, including witness statements about what began the altercation.
That sounds like sarcasm, but…it’s kind of exactly what happened. The people who weren’t polite enough to be part of an armed society got removed from it. Fortunately in this case, it appears there was no collateral damage to other people.
I’m not particularly sad about these people, even though it probably would have been better if guns hadn’t been involved in this incident; everyone likely would still be alive. But given the society we live in, people should take that into account, and sometimes, being a colossal raging asshole will get you killed because of the guns in our country, so maybe don’t be such an asshole.
Back during the crack epidemic years of the 1980s, our inner cities should have been the most polite places on the planet.
That sounds about as hollow to me as when teachers and school administrators told me to call on them in cases of bullying. In my experience contacting them just made the situation worse. I had some terrible neighbors in Little Rock and the one time I called the police department for assistance (non-emergency number) the arriving officer didn’t even want to talk about them fearing it might “escalate” the situation. i.e. He just didn’t want to do it and likely thought I was wasting his time.
Having crummy neighbors can be stressful and I bet it’s even worse when they’re the type to make threats.
Yeah, very often (and quite understandably) the police don’t want to take sides in a dispute between people when they have no idea what’s going on, and (somewhat less so) often even when they do. But if you finally have to admit to yourself that the neighbors are a real threat, and you need to call the cops, then when you get no help from them, you might reach the conclusion that they’re not going to be any help next time either, so it’s all on you.
Not saying this is what happened here, but it certainly seems like a possibility.
Yeah, it was sarcasm. I understand the rationale behind the quote but it doesn’t work; humans are stupid. You’d think the Goys would have gotten polite as soon as they saw the gun but nope.
Did you watch the video? Look at the body language, never mind the audio track. Moreover, from the story I saw, the Goys were blowing snow/ice into the shooter’s property. Then got pissed off and started monkey dancing when the shooter came outside to confront them or ask them to stop, depending on your point of view. EDIT, yeah actually, as far as the so boiling over with rage that they not only didn’t notice their neighbor advancing on them with a gun, but continued arguing with him.
I don’t think this was a one time thing at all. It would be interesting to hear from the neighbors of the parties’ reputation in the neighborhood. Police records of the three, legal actions involving them, etc…
With what certainty can we claim the first 6 shots fired, missed? It seems to me, (though I’m no expert) that maybe some, maybe all hit, and Mr. Goy didn’t react, or the reaction after shot 7 was actually a reaction to an earlier hit. Can we even know this?
It looks to me like after the shot to the guy in the doorway, you can see the slide in the locked, open position that would indicate an empty clip. At least that’s what I think I see. It’s amazing the quality of the video and audio in this disaster.
Did you watch the unedited video? Goy turns back and forth toward Spaide twice as the shots are fired, and although he flinches at the noise he doesn’t recoil at all as if he were hit or make any sound. Goy and his wife react instantly by doubling up in pain and screaming simultaneously with the seventh and eighth bullets respectively. I think if he were hit his body would have been visibly jolted by the impact even if for some reason he didn’t feel it.
I’m somewhat surprised that the video includes audio. Some sites say it is illegal to include audio on surveillance cameras because of privacy issues. Pennsylvania is an all-party consent state, which requires that all parties involved give consent to recording a conversation, even in public.