Have faith Zulu, have faith.
You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what is right.
–Lyndon B. Johnson
I saw a classic ignoratio fallacy yesterday on a Fox news show.
The speaker was lamenting how all that money had been wasted on Y2K fixes since nothing major happened, missing the point that nothing major happened precisely because of all the effort made.
“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler
This whole thing is too silly for words, on both sides.
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If you believe in the Bible as a prophetic book, then the truth or validity of any prophecy is going to be real to you, no matter how distorted, twisted, exaggerated, or outright untrue. So, leave Vicky alone with her cherished ideas.
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If you don’t believe in the Bible as a prophetic book, then no one listing the ten thousand “correct” prophecies is going to persuade you. So, Vicky, leave the rest of us alone – the only thing you’ll convince us of is that you have no capacity for rational thought.
On the red heifer: two or three years ago, there was considerable excitement in the fundamentalist (Jewish and Christian) communities about the birth of a red cow. The Old Testament says that the sacrifice of a red heifer is necessary for total atonement (and thus is seen as a necessary precursor for the Messianic Age.) The excitement died down and disappeared pretty quickly however, when someone noticed that this “red heifer” had spots of black and so was neither pure, nor red, nor unflawed.
Sorry, Vic, take that one off your list.
It’ll be more impressive when you show us wolves lying down with lambs.
Dex said:
Now, now, Dex. It is possible that somebody might have heard about these supposedly true prophecies and believe them until somebody points out that they were wrong. Likely? Probably not. But possible.
Again, I have to disagree. If somebody showed me 10,000 real prophecies that had come true, I’d have to seriously reconsider my position. It hasn’t happened, of course, but that’s another issue.
Oh, heck, that’s nothing. All it takes is a little tranquilizer!
David:
Thanks for illustrating my point. If scientists examined a wolf cuddled up with a lamb and found high dopamene levels in the wolf, would he not conclude that someone did exactly what you suggest?
“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler
Jeez, man. Like I just said in another thread: Lighten up! It was a joke, man.
[Walking away, shaking head, muttering about how a joke isn’t funny if you have to explain it…]
David, I think you could stand to take a bit of your own advice.
“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler
Oh, sure, now you claim you were joking, eh? Sure you were. Yeah, I believe you.
[Hmmm. Wonder if I fooled 'em…]
I kindly refer all to this link. http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000500.html
Coldfire
“You know how complex women are”
- Neil Peart, Rush (1993)
David:
Well no, I wasn’t joking. I meant that you should take your own advice about lightening up. Your statement might have been a joke. Mine was an appropos reparte. A what? An appropos reparte.
“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler
Wait, let me try to get this straight. I was joking. You were serious. I told you to lighten up. So that means I need to lighten up?
Have you been studying under Phaedrus or something?! 
<— Added to make sure you know this is a joke.
If that woman says “God bless” just one more time…wow…
“What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch?” --W.C. Fields
Well, quit sneezing!
Oh, I think the proper atheist response to a sneeze bless is a snappy slap, isn’t it?
“It is lucky for rulers that men do not think.” — Adolf Hitler
Did she really do that? Seriously, when you mentioned it around here in the last day or so, that was the first I’d heard of it. Knowing what I do of her personality, I don’t doubt it, mind you, but I do think it’s kind of funny.
Ooh, I just noticed this reply from Victoria_Rose on the previous page, right after I’d made fun of her typing “Bbble”:
Heh. I just imagine her saying this with the back of her hand pressed against her forehead, swooning from the “horrible ordeal” she’s “forced” to undergo at my “cruel” hand. Ohhhh, the poooooor dear!
ARG220 said:
And you guys didn’t believe that the world was coming to an end!
Victoria, casual observation will show that Nostradamus was statistically as accurate as the “prophesies” you’ve cited.
As a Born-Again Christian, I’m extremely upset by all the negative vibes people of your ilk are spreading. Your zeal outweighs your common sense and your sense of decency. If you really believe the Bible, you’ll back off a little and recognize the fact that, as followers of Christ, we are not living up to his message if we engage in this type of spiritual arm-twisting.
The Great Commission states: “Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel, making disciples of all men…” We are responsible for spreading Jesus’s word, yes, but each person is ultimately responsible for their own decisions after hearing it. We cannot compel anyone to believe anything. Or do you feel that the Holy Spirit is not up the task of convicting people, and needs a little boost from you?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad you have such strong convictions and find such comfort and strength in the Bible and prophesies. But do you really think you’re doing God’s work when you offend a fellow Christian (not to mention anyone else) and become an embarrassment to your faith by making ludicrous assertions and then getting contentious when you’re called up on it?
I know, you would rather be a fool for Jesus than a hipster for anyone else. But ask yourself: Are you acting in love? Are you showing compassion? What would Jesus do? What DID Jesus do under similar circumstances?
And keep in mind the parable of the sower. God doesn’t expect everyone to be receptive. So don’t set your sights higher than his.
The Dave-Guy
“since my daughter’s only half-Jewish, can she go in up to her knees?” J.H. Marx
Dave-Guy,
It is attitudes like yours which have (in contrast to other’s) encouraged me to re-read the NT. As an amatuer antiquities scholar and leaning towards Buddhism, I have found much in the NT that complements both intellectual strains.
Most specifically the words of Jesus himself. I will argue with much else of the NT, but the words of Christ (which T. Jefferson had in red ink in his bible) which I have very little problem accepting. Even the “only through me” stuff. Interestingly this does not make me a Christian. I realize that for his audience, the message he was spreading was the best summation of a compassionate world view.
I as a modern human, I ALSO have access to the teachings of the Buddha. Accepting his teachings as well, in no way dilutes the words of Jesus, esp. the Sermon on the Mount.
In the spirit of understanding, I would ask any sincere Christian who believes that compassion is the core of Christ’s teachings to see clear of propaganda that says that Buddhism is any sort of devil worship and explore the incarnation of Jesus (pure love and compassion) as he appeared in Northern India. The agreement of their ideas 300 years and 2000 miles apart is truly miraculous.
RobRoy wrote:
Wasn’t that the common practice of the time, at least for the more expensive bibles? (I know I’ve seen KJVs in bookstores with “the words of Christ printed in red”. And these were generic bookstores, not Christian bookstores.)
The truth, as always, is more complicated than that.