40% of Americans Belive that Iraq was responsible for 9-11???

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

It seems to me that while Bush may not have asserted that Saddam Hussein is directly responsible for 9-11, he intentionally phrases (or those who write for him do) his speeches to come as close as possible, as frequently as possible, to saying this that the distinction is irrelevant. It’s a variant of the big lie, the big misstatement.

[Hentor_the_Barbarian]

It seems to me that while Bush may not have asserted that Saddam Hussein is directly responsible for 9-11, he intentionally phrases (or those who write for him do) his speeches to come as close as possible, as frequently as possible, to saying this that the distinction is irrelevant. It’s a variant of the big lie, the big misstatement.

[Tee]

*Originally posted by Semp *
**If anyone wants to point out evidence that SH has turned into a fanatical Islamacist, I’d be very interested in considering it in my opinion of the war, but as it is using the above comment just points out that he’s nothing more than a relic of an age gone by. Fidel Castro without the beard. **

Are you seriously saying that pan-Arabists and Islamacists have nothing in common nowadays?

Anyway, a look at their own words. Saddam, 1/6:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2631455.stm

When you, the valiant people of Iraq, renew your pledge to Allah, to yourselves, to the nation and to humanity at large, that you will continue the march of jihad, you do not only strengthen your adherence to your belief and your sacrifices for the Faith, whose meanings have been eloquently expressed, in your sacred blood, as well as in your suffering, sacrifice and perseverance, but you also ensure final victory over the enemies of Allah, your enemies…

etc…now OBL, on tape 2/12:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2751019.stm

Muslims’ doctrine and banner should be clear in fighting for the sake of God. He who fights to raise the word of God will fight for God’s sake.

Under these circumstances, there will be no harm if the interests of Muslims converge with the interests of the socialists in the fight against the crusaders, despite our belief in the infidelity of socialists.

The jurisdiction of the socialists and those rulers has fallen a long time ago.

Socialists are infidels wherever they are, whether they are in Baghdad or Aden.

Very recent quotes. Saddam calling for victory over enemies of the faith, OBL saying pretty much that the interests of Muslims converge with Saddam’s for the time being. I don’t think they are interchangeable in the least, but I also don’t think it’s beyond comprehension that there would be cooperation (somewhere along the line) against what both consider to be a common enemy.

[elucidator]

I’ve no doubt of it. It is an act of statesmanship and diplomacy to make Bismarck, Metternich and Kissinger weep with strangled envy, a towering, untouchable achievement. Only our Fearless Misleader could unite an secular cynic and a religious fanatic in an alliance, while squandering the sympathy and good will of an entire planet. It is an astonishing acheivment, and will stand for the ages. If we do, that is.

[Stoid]

Why is anyone surprised by this? How the hell else do you think the American public would manage to be so damned gung-ho about this war in such large numbers? Koko has been very unsubtle, while still not absolutely direct, in his conflating Iraq and Al-Queda, Saddam and OBL. Hello! Where they hell have you guys been?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

Bush has certainly tries to insinuate it, starting with the “axis of evil” bullshit. The administration has also tried to draw some hazy connections between Hussein and Al-Qaida. Colin Powell tried to sell some such nonsense to the UN, IIRC.

I’ve definitely heard some of the yammering, right-wing, radio guys trying to make that connection.

Personally, I had thought that no matter how much the hawks yelled at that old dog, and theatened it and kicked it in the ass it was just never gonna hunt. Guess I was wrong. Oh well, people also think that diet coke will make them lose weight. Advertising is everything.

[AZCowboy]

Tee, you just discovered that both Saddam and OBL hate the US government?

Saddam’s recent “conversion” (and I say that figuratively, not literally) shouldn’t be taken too seriously, I doubt anyone in Iraq buys it. For many years, Saddam built a secular arab state, and only more recently has been giving more space and time Islam. Using religious rhetoric in a time of war should not be surprising.

The quote from OBL is the equivalent of saying to Iraqis, “I hope you kick the shit out of the Americans, despite your pantywaste of a leader.”

If you believe what both of the quotes imply, you would believe that Saddam is a devout Muslim, and that OBL just called him the worst thing possible, an infidel.

Doesn’t sound like OBL is reaching out to me. Perhaps he could take diplomacy lessons from Dubya.

[Monster104]

After reading this thread, I asked 20 people I know how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi, and not one of them said that they thought any of them were Iraqi.

Polls consistently indicate that between 40-50% of the American people believe that the majority of the 19 hijackers were Iraqi (the real answer is 0) and that Saddam Hussein is helping Al-Queda and Osama Bin Laden, even though Bin Laden has called Saddam an infidel.

So, just what polls would these be? And if they ask a loaded, 2 part question like that, it’s not a very good poll.

[Zenster]

*Originally posted by Semp *
**SH has always been a pan-Arabist, and OBL’s Islamic fanatacism often times gets mistaken for pan-Arabism. But the Hussein-variety of pan-Arabism is something out of the 1960’s and 70’s, supporting secular terrorist like Black September and deriving support from the Soviets. Since the rise of the Islamacists in the 80’s (thanks to the Iranian revolution and the success of the US-backed Mujahedeen in Afghanistan) those secular groups have almost disapeared, and the Al Qaeda type groups have taken over (the fall of the Soviet Union might have a part in this, but I wouldn’t call myself anything close to being an expert in the field). If anyone wants to point out evidence that SH has turned into a fanatical Islamacist, I’d be very interested in considering it in my opinion of the war, but as it is using the above comment just points out that he’s nothing more than a relic of an age gone by. Fidel Castro without the beard.

Did/does he support terrorism? In the past he did at the very least give refuge to pan-Arabists, and currently the Iraqi government sends checks to the families of Palestinian “martyrs.” But to take that to the conclusion that he therefore has a hand in Osama’s racket is too much. I doubt that in the past 12 years that his hatred of the US has blinded himself to the threat that Islamicism faces to his own life. The US posed a more long-range threat, while Al Qaeda could have taken him out without any warning. The mantra of keeping “your friends close, but your enemies closer” just doesn’t make any sense here. **

I hope people read this more than once. Good post, Semp. Howevermuch we might agree or disagree about this current conflict, we both seem to share a concern for the truth.

[Lissa]

*Originally posted by Hentor the Barbarian *
**It seems to me that while Bush may not have asserted that Saddam Hussein is directly responsible for 9-11, he intentionally phrases (or those who write for him do) his speeches to come as close as possible, as frequently as possible, to saying this that the distinction is irrelevant. It’s a variant of the big lie, the big misstatement. **

Excellent point, but more importantly he hasn’t * refuted * the misconception. It is a deliberate attempt to fool the stupid, and it’s working wonderfully.

[rexnervous]

*Originally posted by Lissa *
**It is a deliberate attempt to fool the stupid, and it’s working wonderfully. **

Isn’t that American politics in a nutshell? And it’s always gonna work, since one can never underestimate the stupidity of the average American.

[Shaolinrabbit]

Don’t you guys watch the news? I heard Dutch soldiers caught Saddama Bin Alladin in Iraqistan yesterday. Where’s the pollster?

[Nightime]

There is absolutely no way that 40% of Americans believe Iraq was responsible for 9-11.

Probably, the ones that do think so are basing that belief on the fact that the US is fighting a war with Iraq, given that they have seen no real reason for a war unless Iraq was responsible for 9-11.

[Mandelstam]

I have posted this before so apologies to those for whom this is redundant. To me this Fleischer press briefing, which occurred just after the war began, illustrates the kind of misrepresentation that has so many Americans completely confused.

Fleischer is asked about whether or not the President worries about the death of Iraqi civilians and here’s how he replies.
"…I think the President worries about it from two points of view – one, in terms of the present mission. …

The other portion of what the President remembers when he thinks about the innocents are the 3,000 innocents who lost their lives on September 11th in the United States. And if it were not for the worries that the President had about an Iraqi regime, in defiance of the United Nations, possessing weapons of mass destruction, which he fears could again be used against the United States, you might not see this developing."

Notice the use of the words “could again be used” which indicates that Iraq’s weapons of mass destructions have already been used against the United States and implies that 9/11 was that occasion.

[Simbelmyne]

Whatever yanks Allahs beard works for me. He’ll owe us big time for sending so many of his holy warriors to his side, and we’ll be ready then too.

[Stoid]

Does anyone remember the video of Dubya saying something to the effect of “there is no difference between Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein”. I remember it clearly because Jon Stewart totally busted him on it.

[Splanky]

I can completely believe these polls. Why? Well, the American public are all desperate and are fools. I even hear some ignorant things coming from my parents (who I consider intelligent). I think my mom might’ve said that Iraq was behind 9-11 once.

We begin this “War on Terror” not to long ago and suddenly we are focusing on Iraq. Bush and his administration make a bunch of sketchy remarks involving terrorism and Iraq and people draw their own connections. They figure, “Gee, well the last terrorist attack was 9-11; this is the war on terror; Iraq must be behind 9-11”

Trust me, there are more idiots than you think.

[Tee]

*Originally posted by AZCowboy *
**Tee, you just discovered that both Saddam and OBL hate the US government?

Saddam’s recent “conversion” (and I say that figuratively, not literally) shouldn’t be taken too seriously, I doubt anyone in Iraq buys it. For many years, Saddam built a secular arab state, and only more recently has been giving more space and time Islam. Using religious rhetoric in a time of war should not be surprising.
**

No, I discovered that both Saddam and OBL hate the US government in 1990 and 1993, respectively, like everyone else. The war rhetoric has been forthcoming steadily ever since.

The extent of what I think the connection is between Iraq and al-Qaida involves things like sharing training camps and/or other resources. Money, maybe? SSO intelligence? Perhaps both. Who knows. It’s been…enlightening…to see that idea soundly ridiculed here though.

[syncrolecyne]

The other day some people were carping on this mural found in Iraq…of a 9-11 style attack.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/26/sprj.irq.mural/index.html

I don’t think Iraq had a thing to do with 9-11. However things like this, and some other Iraqi statements made after the fact, is enough to lead many people to believe that they fully support what happened on 9-11, and it wouldn’t bother them in the least if it was done again. Of course this is an extremely tenous link - but I think may people outside America underestimate the deep emotional reaction a lot of people had to 9-11. I think the attitude among much of that 40% is “lets kill any sons of bitches who even agreed with the attack”. That mural only confirms their attitude.

[RandySpears]

[hijack]
Back in the 80s there were a rumour about how the majority of american teenagers would point to the Soviet Union when asked to identify the United States on a world map, simply because the CCCP was the largest state on the map.

Is this a modern myth? It surely has to be
[/hijack]