Meh, while it is true one should not take them as gospel history does show that the serious ones do reveal the overall trends, the ones that ignore all polls are many times the ones that favor authoritarians or are the authoritarians.
The feds have already revoked a hundred thousand visas. That’s a tad bit higher than the few hundred or a thousand you posited. Add to that the people who aren’t going to bother to apply, and the people who still have their visas and are now afraid to try to use them–how many do you think they number? Then you have all of the ones who would face no barriers to entry themselves, but are so disgusted that they lose interest and pick a different destination, or whose business depended upon somebody else who can’t or won’t come to the U.S.
Further, you have not addressed a concern I mentioned earlier: this isn’t “just” a 90- or 120-day cooling off period. For some categories, such as Syrian refugees, this is an INDEFINITE suspension. The actual text of the order doesn’t say anything about finding better ways to vet Syrian refugees; the admission of every refugee from Syria is suspended until such time as Mr. Trump decides that allowing any refugees from Syria is in the national interest. That’s not “any incompletely vetted refugees”; that’s “any refugees” period. The entire group is labeled as not worthy of being examined individually, because he doesn’t want any of them.
Vox’s standard for ‘it wasn’t a ban when Obama did it’ seems to be rather interesting:
By that same standard, I’m pretty sure Trump hasn’t imposed a “ban” either. A number of waivers were granted previously. In February and March, if he admits at least on Iraqi under a waiver, it wasn’t a ban either.
Hmm…revoking a hundred thousand green cards and negotiating only with those who have the resources to actually sue successfully in court? Oh no, that’s not a ‘ban.’
So much for its only affecting a small number of people. Waiting for the next ‘alternative fact’ from the Trump administration. Like Bugs Bunny I mean Kellyanne Conway talking about the Bowling Green Massacree.
I think a fair reading of the order is that they anticipate having the refugee program back up and running in 120 days and if the changes they’ve made are enough to assuage the Donald’s concern, then Syrian refugees will be admitted going forward. You said " The actual text of the order doesn’t say anything about finding better ways to vet Syrian refugees" but I think it does: “determine what additional procedures should be taken to ensure that those approved for refugee admission do not pose a threat to the security and welfare of the United States” would seem to encompass Syrian refugees as well as others.
The article actually said 100,000 visas and the lawyer that gave that number also said “all people with green cards who came through the airport have been let into the United States”. This may help you with the distinction.
You and I have a fundamental disagreement about the reason for the order. I don’t think this has anything to do with concerns about vetting; this has to do with “Muslims are scary.” As long as the refugees are non-Christian, I do not expect that ANY steps could or will assuage the Donald’s concerns, not in 120 days and not in 120 years. Look at the people around him like Guiliani and Bannon, who are spouting off about Muslim bans and the West’s war against Islam. Bannon in particular seems to the be the architect of this order, and Bannon has made it very plain that he sees the Judeo-Christian West pitted against Islam itself, not against poorly vetted refugees who happen to be Islamic. He has compared the current situation to Charles Martel at Tours, stopping an invasion. This is the man who has the president’s ear–what POSSIBLE procedures do you think could be implemented that would change Bannon’s mind?
Look at clause (c) of section (5), as you quoted it: “the entry of nationals of Syria as refugees is detrimental to the interests of the United States.” It’s not written as “the entry of nationals without being thoroughly screened,” or any language to that effect–it’s all of them. Their entry is detrimental, full stop. What’s going to change that situation in 120 days?
Don’t forget that it was a targeted delay of a specific program which demonstrated a verfiable deficiency. Which is absolutely unlike the ban of everyone from 7 countries for at least 4 months and the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees, all for nothing that the administration cares to share.
A typical bisa comes with a fee of $100. 100,000 people passed their checks, got their visas, lost their money and the administration’s response is vague and dismissive. Real American, make me want to turn on the country music, sit on the back of my pickup and drink a beer.
BTW nothing that Johnny Ace said needs correction, it is still the truth that Ms Conway did get it wrong about the bowling massacre, her accepting that is only taking away one item from several misleading others used to justify a very stupid move by the President.
That would be the ‘or not’ part. She said she screwed up. No shit…really? She fabricated a nonexistent event to try to justify Trump’s travel ban by saying “Oh, the Obama administration did it too.” Which, of course, they didn’t, as has already been dealt with. (Actually, after the non-apology apology she then continued about how we should all forgive her because she wasn’t releasing the name of some liberal who tweeted from the wrong account or something. Whose name she didn’t release, of course. Wow, what a paragon of truth and virtue!)
Give me a break.
The spelling was absolutely intentional, btw. That’s how Bugs Bunny said it, and it was satire.
What could all be fixed? The world’s negative reaction to it? The American public’s? Republicans as well as Democrats?
How about the scrambling by Trump’s mouthpieces to come up with a more bullshit justification than the last? Oh, we said it’s a ban, but no it’s really not a ban. Oh, we said it’s directed at Muslims, but no it’s not really directed at Muslims. Oh, we said it was temporary, but it’s really not temporary.
Just saw an article that said the State Department said it was “fewer than 60,000 visas”. Not that it much matters, but if we’re going to be throwing around numbers we might as well try to use the correct one.
Zero people have suggested that, but it is a convenient position to argue against so I don’t blame you for inventing it.
Perhaps you’re under the impression that refugees aren’t screened? Maybe you’re under the impression that refugees from countries on the ban list have actually killed people in America, and you’re willing to trade your soul to stop it?
Good news, friend! You can keep your soul, because there is an effective screening process for refugees and immigrants coming from Muslim countries. Or at least there was, back before we starting turning away the people who are fleeing from a murder cult. Fuck them, though. America first!
fwiw, the Somali refugees currently held at the last staging post in Kenya before embarkation to their new lives have been through an seven-year vetting process. Some of the children weren’t born.
The Muslim ban is temporarily blocked and travelers from the 7 countries may resume their journies to the US! It looks like the judge who blocked it took issue with the fact no reason was offered for the ban from these countries: