50 Grand for 'historical context'

Great Debates
1

This is referring to the lawsuit in nearby (to me) Adams Cty, Ohio, concerning the placement of a stone monuments engraved with the Ten Commandments outside all of the county high schools. The church group that funded the tablets has just ponied up an additional 50 large to pay for tablets bearing the Magna Carta, the Justinian Code, and the D of I, hence the “historical context” BS.

Anyway, my point is this: Fifty thousand dollars could pay a teacher’s salary for a full year. Or buy a thousand textbooks, or twenty computers. It’s refreshing to know that the Adams County School district is so well off that the community can afford to blow so much money on such an obviously unconstitutional distraction.

2

huh. When you put something in quotes when posting a new thread, it disappears. The title should be:

50 grand for “historical context.”

3

[Moderator Hat: ON]

Fixed!

[Moderator Hat: OFF]

4

Ok, now to respond to the OP!

You see this in all too many school districts who try to pull crap like this. They’ll defend against lawsuits that they are destined to lose (and should lose). They’ll fight with all of the tax money that could be going to help education, which is supposed to be their main goal. Instead, we often see that their real main goal is to fight for their own religious beliefs. :frowning:

5

And how much do you want to bet that the 10 Commandments will be the largest tablet, front and center?

I like the phrasing from the Enquirer, “veneer of educational purpose.” Too right.

6

Seriously, by putting up stones with the Magna Carta they can also legally justify the 10 commandments? Wouldn’t it still be illegal to put up the commandments, regardless?

7

What a mental image;

Hogwash, cut in stone.

8

Is the religious group in question at fault for offering to make the donation, and offering even more money to create a historical context, or is the school at fault for accepting it?

9

I believe that there was a time when the Ten Commandments, plus the other edicts in Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy, were treated as legal documents for the Hebrews in ancient Israel at the time. Since it is the most famous of these set of laws, and people around the world, more than any other document, still strive to follow the ‘ten’ as well as many of the other edicts that are relevant today, then as an historical legal document, it is at least equal to the likes of the Magna Carta, the Hammurabi code and the Constitution.

10

OP: *The church group that funded the tablets has just ponied up an additional 50 large to pay for tablets bearing the Magna Carta, the Justinian Code, and the D of I, hence the “historical context” BS. *

Criminy, they’re going to put up tablets with the Institutes of Justinian on them? Take a look at the link—that thing goes on forever! The high school will look like a cemetery, what with all the stone tablets you’ll need!

More importantly, why oh why do well-intentioned people keep insisting that they ought to be able to do their proselytizing on public property? If they want high school kids to see the Ten Commandments, why don’t they just rent a billboard near the high school and put them up there? Perfectly legal.

And the idea that this whole thing is intended simply as a presentation of “historical legal documents” is too silly for words, IMO.

11

Oh, bullshit.

It’s a religious document, pure and simple. Hell, they can’t even all agree on which are “the” 10 Commandments!

Here’s how you know for sure that the groups like this care only about the religious aspects: Ask 'em to put up a sign that says: “Don’t steal. Don’t murder.” etc. and leave off the stuff about God. “Oh, no!” is the answer you’ll get.

12

Incidentally, that response was in reply to Capacitor. Kimstu kinda slipped in there. :slight_smile:

13

Hey, maybe they could include the Code of Hammurabi and they’d have enough stone to build a new library! Now that’d be good use of 50 grand.

14

In fact, I seem to recall a principal somewhere in the deep South (Alabama, IIRC) saying that he thought it was more important to incite and fight ACLU lawsuits than it was to buy textbooks and supplies. In that many words. Sheesh.

This has gone beyond even the religious purpose of posting the TC into a display of pure penis-waving. “Those heathens at the Anti-Christ Law Union think they’re something, huh? Well, we got 'em good this time! That’ll show 'em who has the bigger penises!”

I’d love to ask the supporters of this crapola to explain to me, exactly, the importance of the Magna Carta, the Justinian Code, etc. I’d wager they couldn’t tell me.

Dr. J

15

Capacitor said: …people around the world…

Probably not nearly the number of people around the world give the “ten” any credence whatsoever.

The Magna Carta was a legal document with the specific purpose of limiting the powers of the King of England and had nothing to do with metaphysical concepts such as the existence of any gods.

The Code of Hammurabi likewise is a legal document created by men in the service of men.

The constitution is a legal document created by people for the people.

The Ten Commandments are not laws. And the idea is that they were not created by men. Additionally, it’s got all that god stuff in there which atheists certainly don’t want to hear and which is not the main thrust of the other documents.

My suggestion if this group wants to get the Christian/Judaism Ten Commandments engraved in stone outside of the school for the purpose of education is to engrave the commandments of other religions and a Star of David on the SAME MONUMENT and call it a survey of religions. But that, of course, would undermine the real reason the community wants the commandments posted which is to propagandise for Christianity. You can take a course on this sort of thing in the center for psychological warfare at Fort Bragg :frowning:

16

There was an article in the paper 'round here several months ago about a school in Pennsylvania that wanted to post religious documents. Fine, said the community, equal time…when the secular humanists got their week after the pagans it was all over.

17

If the modern followers of Zeus wish to donate copies of the Iliad to a school, and offer to build a statue of Odysseus, I have no problem with this.

The School board on the other hand needs to decide if it’s appropriate, allowable, and in the best interests of the students, the school, and the community.

As elected representatives of the community I see no good reason why they should not decide, as long as no state or Federal funds are being used.

If the citizens of Adam county don’t like it, they are free to vote in a new school board and remove the things.

Otherwise, it’s none of our frickin’ business.

Do we insist against a Christmas Holiday? Yom Kippur? Do we allow Christmas and Easter decorations in our schools? What about a Christmas play?

To allow these, but disallow an unfunded, donated decoration that surely does have some historical as well as religious significance is ludicrous. Get rid of it all, or leave it alone. Why the halfway measures?

Why do leave it alone? Because, the majority of people like it this way. If the people of Adam’s County want the the ten commandments, or a statue of Chthulu in their schools, why is it any of our business. Rebellion against rule from afar is what this country was founded on. The seperation of Church and state means freedom from religion, not oppression.

One of the great strengths about the U.S. is its diversity and its ability to get along (relatively speaking.) Tolerance my friends. If they want the ten commandments, fine. At some point I’m sure all you godless heathens will do something to piss off the religious right, and you will be entitled to the same tolerance and courtesy.

Why is this such a big deal?

18

Could you provide a link for this, or at least the name of the school and the date?

19

Scylla said:

Because there is this little thing called the Constitution, which exists, in large part, to make sure that the majority doesn’t simply override the minority because they can – which is exactly the type of situation we’re talking about here. Oh, we’re in a majority Christian area? Then the public school can be turned into a Christian school. Wrong.

Read: If the majority doesn’t like it, they are free to vote in a new school board. The minority can go screw itself.

It sure as hell is.

All of these things have been discussed in previous threads around here. And you’re right – there shouldn’t be a “Christmas” anything in the schools, or Yom Kippur or Easter, for that matter.

I agree with you completely. Get rid of it all.

So if the majority of people didn’t like what you were saying, it would be okay for them to take away your freedom of speech? Or if a majority of people thought that your religion was evil, it would be okay for them to forbid its practice?

No. The Constitution forbids that. That is why we have one.

Have you surveyed every person in Adams County? I’m willing to bet that the view is not shared by 100% of them.

You’re right – it means freedom. One part of that freedom is for the minority not to feel oppressed by the majority, who would institute their religion as an official one.

Except that “tolerance” always seems to mean, “Let the Christians have their way and don’t complain about it.”

It pains me to see that you really don’t understand the answer to that question… :frowning:

20

These tablets are giant MF’n headstone looking things placed at the FRONT DOOR of the schools. yes, they were paid for by private individuals, but the school district denied a petition by an individual who wanted to erect a statue dedicated to the Center for Phallic Worship (I shit you not). That’s when the ACLU stepped in.

The school district is now spending taxpayer’s money to fight this suit to the death. The church leaders are further fleecing the flock to erect the aforementioned piss poor display of “historical context.” What irks me, however, is the fact that those same citizens of Adams County who are SO willing to pony up for the “welfare” of the school kids, who would, obviously, otherwise end up a bunch of homosexual communist jew longaired liberals if the 10 C’s weren’t there, just last year turned down a school operating levy. Hypocritical turds.

“We don’t need no reedin and ritin, long as we got churchin.”