Now circulating in the Oregon Legislature is Senate Bill 736, which “would allow Oregon schools to display the biblical list of moral dos and don’ts as long as it is accompanied by other historical documents, such as the Declaration of Independence and the Magna Carta.” (Quote comes from today’s Oregonian, not the text of the bill itself.)
And why, you ask? Well, here’s Michael Marsh of Salem to explain:
Forgive me while I pause to roll about on the floor laughing with tears streaming from my eyes.
The article continues:
I find that last paragraph particularly precious. (Lotta adultery in public schools, is there?)
Anyway, does anyone want to second the argument that a “reminder” of America’s criminal and moral codes, as embodied by a copy of the Ten Commandments buried amongst other historical documents on a classroom wall, will help stem the tide of turpitude and iniquity now so apparently evident in Oregon’s schools?
This is one issue that just makes me want to throw my hands up. Or throw my lunch up.
There are three commandments that are absolutely and unequivocably advocating a specific religion and prohibiting other religions: 1) You shall have no other Gods before me, 2) You shall make no graven images, and 4) Remember the Sabbath. I’m being very generous and interpreting #3, taking the Lord’s name in vain, as “Don’t swear.”
How on earth can anybody justify that as fair to non-Judeo-Christians, much less constitutional? Camoflaging a Biblical passage with the Magna freakin’ Carta to create a display of historical documents is clever, but they kiss that justification good-bye by blabbing that the real intent is religious.
What the hell do they think this will accomplish anyway?
Little Billy knelt on Little Bobby’s chest with his fist upraised when suddenly his eye lit on the copy of Ten Commandments taped to the classroom wall. “My goodness,” he thought, “I was about to commit a sin against my Lord and Saviour!” He stood with a tear in his eye, and helped Bobby to his feet, saying, “I’m awfully sorry, Bobby. Thank God that Jesus made sure the Ten Commandments were posted right here in our classroom to remind me how to be a good Christian. I hope you will join me in a moment of prayer.”
Bobby, an atheist, promply pasted Billy in the nose. “Take that, Ten-Commandments-Boy. Don’t make me go Charlton Heston on your ass.”
Uzis and cocaine are legal in Oregon schools? PAR-TAY!
Seriously though, it’s nice of this guy to be more up-front than your typical legislator. He’s all but saying, Yes I want to cram God down their throats if it will do them any good. Which obviates the whole “historical documents” charade.
I don’t know how the commandments I’m familiar with would stem the tide of tattoos, body piercing, and general anarchy. Was that in the forgotten Eleventh??
Curious to learn how much traction this will get in the Oregon legislature. Always thought of the Beaver State as rather progressive, with the right-wingers keeping to themselves in their cabins.
–Grump “Thou shalt not engrave on thyself any images?” y
I don’t understand this odd desire of some people to tie the name of the Bible to the good advice it offers…
Ten bucks says that if you posted a list that consisted of things like “Don’t murder other people, Don’t take things that don’t belong to you” and such, people won’t protest until you say “I got the idea from the Ten Commandments.”
Well, so long as the list didn’t also include “Worship the right God” and “Worship the right God in the right way” and “Worship the right God on the right day of the week”.
With apologies to MEBuckner for expanding on his excellent post, here are ten commandments that delete the fundamentalist cowflop and would fulfill all the alleged secular purposes of the Big 10.
Ain’t nobody’s business who or what you worship. Just don’t be a prick about it.
Dude, knock yourself out with the graven images. Or blow 'em to hell like the Taliban. Your call.
Don’t talk shit about anything you filled in the blank with for for commandment #1, 'cause you’ll look like a total hypocrite.
Take it easy on the weekends.
Listen to your parents.
Don’t be killin’ folks.
If you’re gonna screw somebody, inform anybody else who might take it personally.
Don’t steal.
Don’t lie.
Get off your ass and get your own stuff instead of bitching about everybody else having stuff.
Actually you really can’t turn never lying into an absolute ethical imperative. (If you don’t believe it just think about having a family of Jews in your attic somewhere in Nazi-occupied Europe circa 1942, and see how high “I cannot tell a lie” ranks on your list of ethical must-do’s.) The original of course is “Don’t bear false witness against your neighbor”, which is narrower and for which it is much harder to dream up exceptions. I’m not a real big fan of the Ten Commandments as an alleged “perfect moral code”, but let’s give credit where credit is due.
This battle has been raging here in Kentucky for the last bit. What pisses me off about it is how the proponents talk out of both sides of their mouths:
Me: Why do you want these posted?
Fundie Legislator: Because kids are killing kids, schools are handing out condoms full of cocaine, first graders are packing Uzis, but we won’t let little Sally say “bless you” when someone sneezes. We’ve lost our moral fiber/center/compass, and we’ve got to get God back into our schools.
Me: But it is a constitutional violation to post a moral code specific to one religion, even if it is that of the majority.
Fundislator: But we’re not posting it as a moral, religious document. We’re posting it as one of several “historical documents”, along with the Declaration of Independence, the Magna Carta, the Code of Hamurabbi, etc. It’s educational.
So on one hand, the purpose is to instill moral values, but on the other, it’s simply an educational display. I see.
I expect this to be a huge issue around here this year. We have several counties posting the TC in blatant violation of law, and they are being taken to court by the ACLU. They’re really going to be pissed off when they have to repay the ACLU’s court fees.
Just wanted to point out that those aren’t mutually exclusive.
Should a sense of ethics and morality be instilled in people at a young age? I can think of no better time to do it. But is Christianity the only source of ethics and morality? Nope. Should we “protect” kids from the Ten Commandments? Again, nope… I don’t think they’re dangerous or even significantly subversive. Should kids be exposed to JUST the Ten Commandments? Uh-uh… Christianity’s teachings are nifty, but there’re other sources out there.
(Sorry if I seem like I’m rambling… it’s 3:00 AM, you see, and I can’t sleep)
Posting the Ten Commandments as a cure-all panacea for the ills of society is a truly simple-minded idea. The ills that plague our society aren’t just going to disappear because some dimbulb legislator wants to post the laws given by a putative deity to a pack of desert-dwelling nomads 4000 years ago.
The First Commandment says,“Thou shalt have no other gods before Me,” which won’t go down well with non-Yahweh worshippers.
The Second Commandment says, “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is
in the water under the earth.” I take that to mean that Yahweh wants me to nip down to the National Gallery with a sledgehammer and make like the Taliban. God apparently hates the fine arts.
I find the Sixth Commandment, “Thou shalt not kill,” particularly ironic since the very people who are the most fervent proponents of posting the TC are also in favor of the death penalty.
Sure, I’m in favor of teaching ethics and morality in elementary schools. But the Fundamentalist Christians wouldn’t like my ideas, which have to do with keeping an open mind, being nice to people who are different from you, and so on.
Hey, if you want to pass a law to post a list of ten generic “good social advice” tips in the public schools, I have no problems with that.
Unfortunately, that’s not what’s being proposed here. The fact that the Ten Commandments are directly tied to a particular religion (okay, technically three) makes it
in direct conflict with the doctrine of separating church and state,
all but guaranteed to piss off anyone who doesn’t subscribe to a Judeo-Christian-based religion, and
Hi Opal!
Heck, I’m an atheist, and I’m sure I could draft a list of “rules of school behavior” that are guaranteed to avoid bending any religious noses while being squeaky-clean enough to please all of the “concerned parents” out there. Yet, amazingly enough, the people who peddle this kind of legislation never seem interested in such a solution, and always latch onto the Ten Commandments instead.
That, to me, is an admittance of their real agenda – that they are trying to cram Their Religion™(R) down the throats of the kids, under the guise of “saving” the schools.
Although I’m an atheist, I can’t get excited about this issue. The “Big Ten” were widely posted for many, many years, prior to recent court decisions. I’ve seen no evidence that they contributed to school shootings, illiteracy, drugs, pregnancy or any other type of student problems. I tend to feel that posting the Ten Commandments wouldn’t do much good, but experience has shown that it didn’t do any harm.
IIRC, this is precisely the tactic used in a state whose name I have now forgotten. Virginia? North Carolina? Colorado, maybe? Though in this case, they hewed a little too close to the 10C’s and didn’t avoid the fundamental conflict.
