Very dramatic, my friend. You’d be afraid to leave your wife in a room alone with me?
I sincerely doubt that any of the scum of the earth who happens to also like Eminem’s music are feeling validated and respectable just because frumpy old 35-year-old toddler-raising sedan-driving me likes his music.
The sad truth is, there will always be people who cannot separate “the act” from truth. I don’t think musicians should start whitwashing their music just because of that. Responsibility for what people believe and value does not lie with public figures. It lies with parents, with schools, with society. Eminem does not turn lawless misogynistic homophobic punks into what they are. They had those values before they ever bought a CD.
Yes, some of his language offends me and I’d be horrified to hear my child use it in speech. But music is a form of art, and I see Eminem’s choice of language a form of artistic expression. He is making a statement. You don’t have to like it, but neither should you condemn those of us who find it meaningful or enjoyable
For the record, I don’t like most of Mr. Mather’s work. But I’d be a liar if I said I didn’t find Cleaning Out My Closet both a little scary and a lot sad and I’d be damned if I don’t actually really like Lose Yourself.
Axle Rose has shown himself to be a wife abuser and a racist, but that doesn’t mean Sweet Child of Mine is a shitty song. Woody Allen is a half a step away from being an incestuous pedophile, but Take The Money and Run is still a funny movie.
Funny, it doesn’t smell like a septic tank in MY apartment and I play that shit loud. It’s raw and the kid has got skills. Being a good rapper is incredibly difficult and takes a ton of practice. The kid worked hard and him making money off dirty lyrics is no worse then someone making money from a gangster flick.
Taboo PC bitches with their panties in a bunch help him sell MORE records. They would do well to just ignore it if they don’t like it, but instead of just exercising their right to choose not to listen, they get all proactive and judgemental of the artist and his fans. Russell Simmons once said you want half the people to love you and half the people to hate you. That’s how you sell records. Making a fuss plays right into their hands you silly, silly, rabbits.
It’s not the anti-gay lyrics or the wife murdering lyrics or the piles of drugs lyrics that I love so much. It’s the “I’ll say whatever the hell I feel like saying - try and stop me” attitude that I love. He could say they he’s a purple monster for all I care, it’s how he says it and his disregard of Taboos that makes it so impressive to me. Plus he has got Dre’s beats and is one of the fastest rappers of all time. The man can get 6 words in the space it takes me to say one. All of his lyrics are calculated for reaction. Not only that, his lyrics also anticipate those reactions before they ever happen. He proceeds to successfully mock said reactions before they ever happen. The result? When they complain about Eminem in Congress (or on message boards) they are making themselves the butt of a joke they don’t get. I get it though, and it cracks me up. They will never stop this music.
Haters. Let it go. You’ll be all right. But hip-hop is here to stay. It’s a culture and a community and it has a beautiful inspirational side and it can have a dark side, like every other culture ever known to man. Rock and roll faced the same problems when it came out. The people who complained about that were just as stupid as the ones who complain about rap now and jazz back in the day. Go play some Simon and Garfunkle and shut the fuck up. There must be 50 ways to leave other peoples taste in music alone. Go be a rock or an island or some shit and let the kids play.
““Oh, now he’s raping his own mother, abusing a whore, snorting coke, and we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?” You god damn right BITCH, and now it’s too late I’m triple platinum and tragedies happen in two states.”
~ Guess Who?
Oh, I meant to add, the movie apparently has a scene where Jimmy (Eminim’s character) defends a gay coworker. Dunno if this is his way of sending a message about life vs. music or what. It’s getting excellent reviews thus far, saying they found a fresh approach to a tired plotline.
I’m waiting for video/DVD or cable, not because I have anything against Eminem (in fact, Without Me is one of the most infectious songs I’ve ever heard) but because I’m just not interested in the story. I wish Eminem would have chosen something not so autobiographical as his first starring role, so I could get a feel for him as an actor and not just someone “playing himself.” I do have great faith in Curtis Hanson as a director–even with Losing’ It–but I’m going to wait this one out. And read the thread you guys start this weekend.
Me, I wouldn’t leave my kid alone with Em. He’s got some anger issues that need to be dealt with (I mean, wanting to beat up Triump the Insult Dog? Take some tranquilizers!) but transfering the singer’s problems onto the listener seems a little, um, — I’m looking for a phrase here that won’t sound too insulting-- over-the-top.
Would you leave your family alone with someone who listens to The Dixie Chicks? Bizet? How 'bout someone who reads Stephen King?
I guess I’m just a horrible, rotten, terrible person because I turn Kill You up loud and sing along with it.
It’s cathertic.
Thinking about, talking about, singing about, reading about, crimes is not the same as actually committing a crime. If he actually “painted the forrest” with somebody, then yeah, I’d probably be pretty disgusted and horrified. In the meantime though, the thought police should probably focus their attention elsewhere—like on actual crimes against humanity.
You see you missed the point entirely. You were the one I was talking about when I said. “And all you “mainstream” appologists lining his pockets are just making them feel respectable.” It’s people like you who make the low brows who beat their wives and kick the shit out of any man they think is too effeminate think hey, “we’re mainstream now.” Can you actually not see where this schmuck’s act can allow these guys to justify their actions? Whether that is M & M’s intent or not? Whether you “got the joke” or not?
I said in my post that I wouldn’t ban it. But that doesn’t mean I can’t be disgusted by anyone who enjoys it.
Oooo! You rebel you! :rolleyes:
Oh, yah, real deep. You are right M & M invented that. :rolleyes:
Oh, come off it! No one is telling you what you can listen to or that Hip Hop is the “Devils Music.” I’m talking about one performer here. My point was and is that making the depiction of spousal abuse and other such activities something that you sit around and chuckle about is the harm in his act. These things should be met with universal condemnation.
Wouldn’t let my wife near anyone who gets off listening to some guy shouting about shooting people for kicks, unless she dented the car or something.
Cash fans, you’ve been warned!
I really can’t see judging someone too harshly by the type of music they listen to. I listen to everything from Eminem/hip hop to african/reggae/blues/industrial/bluegrass/classical/rap/punk/emo etc, etc. and I’d hate for someone to pick a few songs out of that and base my character on it.
Now maybe if someone only listened to songs about killing women, that might raise an eyebrow from me.
Let me pass something along. If The Dixie Chicks, Bizet, or Stephen King wrote a pamphlet encouraging people to commit murder or beat up minorities then I would absolutely not leave my family alone with with any one who enjoyed those works. You see they wrote what is known as fiction.
I am not and have not been talking about someone who has a portrayal of violence in their work. I am talking about someone who details actions he wishes he were free to take and who advocates such actions. Completely different issue. His stuff is not fiction. If he were to come out and say that he really didn’t mean any of that then I would say that at the very least it was not presented as fiction and a large section of his fan base does not see it as fiction.
Uh, the Dixie Chicks do advocate murder and vigilante justice. Or did I totally miss the point of Earl Has To Die?
What do you mean his stuff is not fiction? Honestly, does he have a conviction for murder? Bashing? Domestic abuse? (I’m not being sarcastic, I’m curioius here, I really don’t know.) Some of it is based on his life, but you know what? Sometimes people write books in first person, and sometimes the 1st person narrator is the bad guy. Poe wrote The Tell-Tale Heart in 1st person, that doens’t mean he went and killed somebody and hid his heart under the floorboards of his house.
Eminem may sing with a first person narrator, but that doesn’t mean it’s about him.
**
Eminem has not written a pamphlet encouraging people to beat up women or commit murder. What are you talking about? He wrote songs about his feelings toward 2 specific women (his wife and mother) in which he fantasizes that he beats them. This is fiction. The Dixie Chicks wrote a song about killing a man and stuffing him in a trunk. What’s the diff, exactly?
And even if these songs were actual reports of factual events-- what in the hell does that have to do with the person listening to the song? Most people have control over their own actions and are not mind-controlled by the music they listen to.
No, I do not understand this at all. It is certainly not a completely different issue. I’m beginnig to wonder if you have actually listened to any of Eminem’s music or if you are basing this on what you’ve read or heard.
It doesn’t do you any good to make 'a large section" of his fans out to be complete idiots who can’t thing for themselves and form their ideas from some rap star’s revenge fantasies. Like Earl wasn’t a kick-ass revenge fantasy.
Fortunately, instead of actually murdering his wife he expressed those feelings in a song. See there is a difference between doing something and portraying something. In the spirit of Carl Jung this guy acknowledges his shadow side. All of us have had petty thoughts or cruel desires at one time or another. This doesn’t make you a bad person. If you act violently on those feelings THEN you have gone too far. Societies stigma forcing floks to not talk about these parts of ourselves may contribute to people freaking out and going ballistic. Talking about your emotions is theraputic. Alot of people can relate to the things he raps about. Have you considered that some people have, instead of actually hitting their wife, thrown on an eminem record to laugh a bit and live vicariously through that fictional character? Probably not. The music just sends people into homicidal rages. Anyone remember that old flick Reefer Madness? Eminem turns boy to fiend in two days!!! Film at 11.
Allow? You must be kidding. Jerkoffs can rationalize away anything. Nobody is responsible for someone hitting there wife except the person who does it. Eminem’s music is a journey into the darker side of humanity. Taking the lyrics at face value misses the whole point and makes you look like a fool in my book. It really is a touch deeper. The guy who hits his wife is also missing em’s point as the Dido track illustrates. His albums are total pieces. He’ll say one thing and contradict it later. Folks who focus in on the harsh lyrics miss the message. You have to listen to the whole album and you find out he actually is making some pretty cool observations about the state of our society, the music industry, relationships, self worth, white trash, poverty, hypocrites, freedom of speech, the way we treat our children, and the way we run our government. But some scmuck always comes along and says he just wants to kill fags and beat his wife. Wrong. You missed it. You lack listening skills. Parody, irony, and role playing. Look em up. Ya might learn somethin’.
The quote I put in my last post was read in front of congress. “You see! He advocates raping your own mother!” No, he doesn’t. He has created a character that takes all of the worst in him and lets it out unapolagetically. It’s ugly, but so was Harvey’s character in Bad Lieutenant. Still a great movie and the guy who wrote it isn’t automatically evil, ya know?
You must be having a fun time feeling disgust for people you don’t even know who enjoy themselves without harming you or anyone in any way. What a small pathetic way to feel. Good luck to you with your hatred of people because of their taste in music. Noble of you not to ban the music, though. I was scared for a minute. :snicker:
You said that with a straight face? People like me make wifebeaters feel they are mainstream?
It’s too bad you don’t know me better, you’d understand why this is funny. And sad. I’ve got 4,000 posts here so if you do wish to know a bit more about me sometime, and you’re bored, go for it. I will reveal that have a leadership position in an organization that dedicates itself to helping protect women and children from abuse. Ain’t that a hoot?
Also, I can guaran-damn-tee you that abusers do not need music to validate their behaviors. They’re already plenty screwed in the head; it doesn’t matter if the stereo is on or not.
I don’t think Eminem means for us to giggle over wife-killing. Is there something about him that I don’t know that you do? I’d condemn these lyrics is they weren’t merely sung for effect. If they weren’t fiction. I’d condemn them if he were writing personal letters to people encouraging such behavior.
If you want to pick apart the values in his songs, why not look at everything he says? He raps that he would never ever desert his daughter. He says that fathers leaving their families are losers. How do you feel about those values? There are plenty of upstanding citizens who would never use the word “faggot” or talk about beating their wives, much less write songs about it. But they have no problem blowing off their kids, refusing to meet child support expectations, doing nothing more than phoning in on birthdays. In some ways, Eminem is a better person that real-live folks I know. Fancy that. Yet I don’t expect his music to make Dads better dads, any more than I expect him to make wife-beaters any meaner. Perhaps you do? If his music is so validating, if it carries such a strong message, than shouldn’t you be delighted that now more men will be sticking with their families?
The bottom line for me is, the man is not just his music. I will teach my child that music is fiction. That musicians use lyrics to express anger and despair and to tell stories about the world. That he can enjoy the beat and choose to reject the idea that his values should be informed by crazy lyrics. I’m not going to tell him that by listening to a CD is is sending a personal message to wife-beaters that they are “Mainstream.”
You honestly don’t see the difference between a song, or story, or whatever about a fictional act of violence between fictional characters and someone describing explicitly an act of violence that they wish to perform on a specific real individual?
