99 No's

The BBQ Pit
1

They say that when you’re looking for a job in your field, you sometimes have to go through ninety-nine “No”’s before you get to a “Yes”. And they say that you have to focus on that “Yes”, and keep persevering and keep a positive attitude, and eventually you will succeed.

Well they can get stuffed.

Because what they don’t tell you is how much every damn one of those “No”’s hurts. How every thin envelope that comes through that mailslot leaves another little wound. How to keep going when every instinct is telling you not to bother, not to expose yourself to that pain again. And how to deal with the fear that maybe, eventually, you’ll bleed to death from all those little wounds before you get to that “Yes”. They don’t tell you that.

And they also don’t tell you that the “Yes”, when it comes, doesn’t cancel out all those “No”’s. That you’ll carry their scars with you always, and how they’ll ache when the weather changes. They don’t tell you that either. I know – I’ve been here before.

I can appreciate that I won’t necessarily get the first or the fifth or the tenth job I apply for. But it’s been, what, six, eight months now, without even an interview. And my CV’s been looked at by experts in the field, and I’ve talked to everybody I know who might have a possible connection and I’m still sitting here, waiting, hoping, and feeling more and more useless by the day. How the hell am I supposed to convince someone else I’m the best person for the job, when I believe it less and less myself?

This really sucks.

Anyhow, thank you for listening. I feel better for having gotten this off my chest. If anyone has any suggestions on how to grow a thicker skin, they would be much appreciated.

Back to the application forms.

<sigh>

2

All I can say is: been there, done that, worn the T-shirt. Yes, I know exactly what you mean… I can probably dig out the three little booklets I filled during my last spell of unemployment, with the long, long list of entries that say “Rejected on [date]”. (Or the even longer one of entries that just say “No response by [date]”).

It’s a bugger. And there’s no way around it, except to keep trying … I’ve seen what’s happened to people who gave up; I suppose that motivated me not to go the same way. (In a nutshell, what happened to them was depression, anti-depressants, taking all their anti-depressants in one go, psychiatric care.)

Um. Since all I have to say to you is “keep persevering” … err … I suppose I’d better go and get stuffed now.

(But keep trying anyway.)

3

Aaargh, I’m wearing the unemployment t-shirt now, and have been for way too long. It’s terribly frustrating, definitely. I’m running out of ideas, and that’s an awful feeling.

keeps fingers crossed for jr8 and everyone else on that evil job hunt

4

In a strange way, that helps. Thanks, Steve.

5

My database shows I sent three hundred and eighty seven resumes with cover letters before finally getting a job offer the last time around.

Unemployment sucks, doesn’t it?

6

Sometimes you have to take what you can get, which is why I spent six months in a bottom-rung job at a grocery store prior to being hired by my current employer. I’ve been here for just shy of nine years, mostly in some sort of data-entry position though I was in the copy room for a while between data-entry jobs.

Which reminds me, we’re supposed to receive official length-of-service recognition every five years. I have yet to receive anything. Not that I’m complaining, I kind of like being mysterious.

7

Oh, jr8, try not to take it personally. Your skills just weren’t the right fit they needed for the position. There’s nothing wrong with you as a person.

I know it sucks. But keep up the hope. You’ll get there…don’t let this get you down.

8

Notebooks? Databases? Wow, you people are organized!

Hang in there, jr8. Don’t buy into society’s lies that say you’re nothing if you don’t have a job. You’ll get a break soon.

9

Argh jr8!

Hey, I have to head off to meet a client, but as a “hirer” I would like to impart some “do’s” regarding the horrors of job hunting, IF you think it would help?

A quick note of support here for the meantime though!!!

Hang in there. We’ve all been there!!!

10

Wow – you guys are doing me a power of good. (And an “oh yes please” to CanvasShoes – all help gratefully received, including the moral support).

Part of the problem is that I’m changing careers and don’t easily fit into the sort of boxes that Personnel offices look for. Any tips on selling an unorthodox background would be especially helpful.

11

Ah, I’m glad you added that. Do you have education in your new field yet?

If not, one of the best ways to get it, is to do “volunteer” work. Another way is temp agencies. Even if a job doesn’t pay at all, or the pay is crappy, the idea is to get at least 6 months of experience on a resume showing that you are familiar with the work.

Also, forgive me for being “out of the loop” on this, but I’m in Alaska, and our economy is generally a wee bit stronger than the rest of the lower 48. I’ve heard and read lately on the news, that the economy is “sluggish”? First of all, that’s not your fault, but may hinder your efforts some as smaller companies tighten their belts. You may want to just take some sort of “interim” work to help keep you on your feet a little.

What is your previous field and what field are you hoping to go into?

The “99 no’s” even though they make you feel like crap, are actually pretty useful.

Most of the people I’ve worked with approach hunting for workers the same way.

First thing we look at is the resume. It can and does make the difference between a person getting an interview or not. (I apologize if you already know some or most of this).

In my industry (environmental) we aren’t too concerned with getting fancy 90lb cotton paper or “pretty” custom resumes. We are more concerned with the content and we frequently ask applicants to just email or fax them.

The field you are trying to break into might be different. But one thing is gonna be the same, you’ve got an average of 12 seconds to make an impression on the person screening the resumes (it might not always be the person who will hire you, it might be some bored underling who is looking for key words and skills).

So, tailor the resume so that all pertinent skills you have that relate to the job you want, are in the first part of the resume. The person I took my resume writing courses from highly recommended writing each resume based on the ad from the company to which you are applying.

For instance, they ask for typing in the first part of their ad? That’s the first thing that goes on your resume (after name and all of course).

Once you get called for an interview. Do some research on the company. You might be able to find out where the “mail room” people have their after dinner happy hour, that sort of thing.

Eavesdrop, or possibly even strike up a conversation with someone (people love to talk about themselves). Find out whats required and admired in a person working for “ABC Company”.

Then, research their website, what do they do? Sell widgets? Become the most informed ABC Company Widget expert EVER!

When you get into the interview, you can (during the time they ask you questions, or ask if you have any), ask a few well-informed questions. So Mr. Widgetboss, ABC Company started in 1907 and has been the leading widget company since that time, have you found that increasing the technology and adding widgerettes to the product line was key in helping you remain on top? (or some such not TOO nosy, but yet informed nonsense).

Body language. It might even help to check out a few books on the subject. There are several that deal with interview body language by the interviewer.

One of the things our company does is, after we’ve determined if the person is qualified, we then all have a chance to speak with him/her. In a small office, it’s crucial that everyone’s personalities “mesh”.

Remember, don’t just look at it as “am I good enough for them” but “are THEY good enough for ME”? Even if you get a job with good pay and bennies, you don’t really want to work in an office where you don’t feel comfortable with most of the other employees right?

So, while you’re interviewing, pay attention to how the place “feels” and whether it’s TRULY a place you want to be, or if you’re just really, really desparate for a job, any job!

(kind of like, "don’t go grocery shopping when you are hungry).

There are also some books out designed for the interviewER. These are helpful to you, the interviewEE, because you know “what to expect” and what to answer, when they ask those really stupid, “hard” questions.

There’s a lot to cover here on a message board. And I’ve probably either missed some, or oversimplified some, depending on where you are, but I’d highly recommend getting to the library and checking out a bunch of books.

If you put “interviewing” “job-hunting” etc, into a search engine, you can come up with a ton of good articles online.

Good luck!!! And I hope that there were at least a few helpful thoughts in there!

12

jr8 - I’m afraid I don’t have any advice for you. But I wanted to tell you that I think you’re great. I am frowning that you have been unemployed for so long.
Also, see this graph what I drawed. I am all three kinds of cross at once.

I wish you luck mate. Keep your chin up.

13

I’m in the same situation right now - I could wallpaper a small house with my rejection letters. The worst is trying to break into IT - I took those crappy jobs that I was told would give me a foot in the door, etc etc etc, and after a few years working them, when they became impossible to put up with, any other IT recruiter only looks at whether I have experience using the exact system they need. Never mind that I was DUX of my programming course or able to pick up new systems in a few days. I never even get to an interview.

After a while of rejection, all those ‘skills’ and ‘abilities’ you try to play up on your resume tend to become an unbearable weight. Being unemployed is crap.

Sorry I didn’t lift the mood of the thread, but that’s the way I’m feeling right now.

14

At least you guys are getting rejection letters! Canvas Shoes, the business section of the paper said the unemployment rate here’s the highest it’s been in seven years. I’ve been out of work for nearly six months, and I’m now resorting to temporary work. The problem is, there isn’t even much of that going.

jr8, I am with you. I’m tired of the boredom, the frustration, and the worry. I don’t lack the fact that last year I was a programmer and last week I was a receptionist. I’m a good receptionist, but it’s not what I went back to school for. There isn’t a piece of software I can’t use and there are few systems I can’t build, and those I’ll give a good shot to, but the jobs aren’t there. What’s worse is the employers are on to us.

So, I’ll keep sending out resumes, keep my best and second best interview suits sharp and pressed, and try not to think about how many resumes I’ve sent out. I’ll look at the results of on-line searches, groan that there are probably only two or three for which I’m suited, and those two are three will get a few hundred responses. Then, I’ll open up those searches, find those two or three, grit my teeth, and send off a resume with a cover letter telling me what I can do for them. Thanks for reminding me I’m not alone.

Hang in there, even if it’s only by your fingernails!
CJ
Will program for food (and reasonable salary!)

15

OK, here’s something to amuse you while you’re unemployed. It’s been around for awhile, so if you’ve seen it before let someone else be amused.

16

Same boat here. Got laid off end of Sept last year, and got one phone call so far. That’s it. Just too many damn people out there competing for few jobs. Gonna a long time, I think.

17

I was laid off in March of '01. I was sure that I’d get a support/Service position in the high-tech/internet jobspace in NO TIME, considering my years of experience and technical know-how.

Well, it’s never come. I’m UNDERqualified for the jobs that you can make a living at, I’m OVERqualified for the know-nothing jobs that pay for shite.

2 fucking Years! I’ve changed resumes, Temp companies, applied online, called, faxed, I get interviews, but never any yesses. Lots of No’s. Retail doesn’t even want me anymore…

Like you said jr8, every little one hurts. The “no’s” build up and form a huge scab, and even if I had a “yes” in my back pocket today, it would’nt make up for all of the pain and anguish I’ve undergone in the last 2 years. I never had a problem getting a job prior to '01. I was assured that my first interview was always my last interview with one of those “yesses” attached to it.

Not any more, and it’s a MAJOR blow to my somewhat fragile male ego. I feel your pain. :frowning:

Sam

18

Damn! I did forget something.

I posted that the 99 no’s are “good” and then didn’t post why! They are good in the sense that they give you the opportunity to get rid of the “stage fright”.

FTR, I spent quite a while after I graduated from college (and trying to break into a completely new field), I was unemployed or underemployed for close to 2 years.

I have been through the same thing you all are posting about. You get to the point where you are so desparate that if you see someone (in a grocery strore or whatever) with a logo on their jacket from a company for which you’d like to work you get an almost uncontrollable urge to walk up to them and beg THEM to help get you on!!!

It’s horrible, and it does take a long time for the pain and scarring to subside. No doubt about that at all!!

I finally had to take somewhat of a Sam Kinnisen (sp?) stance on it. I was living in a smaller community about 150 miles south of my home town of Anchorage an “oil town” but a tight knit "only certain people can get a job in the industry town.

I finally had to say to myself (aaaaa aaaa AAAAH [sam kinnisen] there are no JOOoooBBBBs here!!! I have to move to where the jobs are).

I moved back home and went to work almost right away. It took me nearly 6 years to recover from debt and the psychological repecussions.

I had a lot of obstacles along the way. Hang in there guys. I don’t know if the “moving to where the jobs are” is an option for you or not. If you already live in a well populated area?

Also, there’s always “padding” and some harmless fibbing on the apps. For the poster who said he knew IT systems, but the companies were picky about “their” specific system?

Are you going ahead and applying for those jobs no matter what the advertisement asks for?

Most companies “ask” for the most they can get, and the rest are “preferences”. Of course they won’t SAY so, but those that are negotiable.

I mean come on! Companies know that no employee is going to be an expert in every area, so they look for the best they can get. The rest boils down to how well the applicant presents themselves.

First, on the initial resume and cover letter, and secondly in person at the interviews.

I spent much of my 2 years unemployment learning how to write resume’s and cover letters, how to interview, how to answer those pathetic questions.

What is my worst weakness? Why, I’m an alcoholic, I’ll be missing most monday’s and friday afternoons, why? will that be a problem? SHEESH!!!

By the way, answering that idiotic question (should you be unlucky enough to get some “Dilbertish” manager that asks it) with trying to use a strength as a weakness (i.e., "I’m a perfectionist and tend to be too hard on myself where work is concerned) is no longer the “correct” way to do it.

Even the dumbest managers see right through that one. The best response is to quickly, in 2 or 3 words, name some non work related weakness, and then “blow your own horn” a little bit by telling how you conquered (past tense) it.

For instance, I once answered that one with my (real life) problem of how impatient I am with other drivers (specially dumb ones) and how I had (emphasis on past tense in the interview, though in truth I haven’t yet totally conquered it) a bad habit of “yelling at” other drivers under my breath.

I told them I used a psychological method of training oneself out of a bad habit and then finished up by saying "when I find myself falling into a pattern of any sort of bad habit, whether at home or work, I find that this is effective to keep me on the straight and narrow (paraphrased).

I know the last thing you all want to do is “dwell” on this sucky situation. But I know that, for me, checking out every book on the subject and making learning to interview and jobseek, my job, well, it worked.

Last but not least, personality, personality, personality. I may be “stating the obvious” to some of you, but maybe some people honestly don’t realize.

When you interview, you are a mellow and blank page. I know, I know, that’s stupid and pathetic. But, it’s part of the game. Particularly if you have a strong, or “unique” personality (not bad in and of itself, but can come off potentially “wrong” in an interview).

For instance, I am a true “Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm”. I’ve been called Pollyanna, Blondie, Giggles, (sigh, you name it). My sunny outlook and upbeat, giggly, personality (coupled with unfortunatly the voice of a 10 year old) is a plus once my coworkers get to know me and realize it doesn’t mean that I’m also a ditz.

But in an interview? I’d kill myself before I’d giggle. And I concentrate hard on lowering my voice a few octaves. And believe me, I’ve had to practically bite my own tongue off to force myself to deliver a “professional” response rather than one that was more “me”. Wait until you are hired to “be you”.

I hope this helps you guys. Trust me, I’ve been there. I hope I’m not making you all feel worse (as you perhaps think "damn!!!, but I’ve DONE everything she’s talking about!!!).

Last thought? Get thee to the library. Research, research, research.

Good luck all.

19

Gee, did I have enough spelling and grammatical errors there? Sorry, a bit dazed as I just woke up from a short “pre-dance class” nap!

20

:eek:

jr8, I feel yer pain. And CanvasShoes, thanks for the informative posts.