99 No's

This is turning out to be quite the party. I may need to restock the beer and snack food if any more people turn up.

The job situtation here is not great, but there are a few jobs every week or so which are close enough to my skills and experience that I try for them. It could be worse – I’ve a friend who’s an accountant who is also unemployed, and he reports that the market for accountants has gone bone-dry in the last year or so. Thank you, Arthur Anderson, says he.

I’m surprised that no one’s noticed, or at least commented on the fact, that my signature (in the first post, and (if I remember) attached below) is a brief and humorous summary of my CV and employment goals.

Here’s my current situation:

I’m an American living in London, and my wife is currently employed and holds a work permit.

I have a BA in Music History (yeah, I know, that’s useful). After graduation I worked for five years in the Graduate Admissions Office at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, dealing with foreign applicants. If there’s anything you want to know about international education systems, I’m your guy.

Moved to London where the spouse was doing a PhD program. Got a (temp) job working for a government agency (OPRAF). Stayed there for 18 months, and had a surprising amount of responsibility for a temp. Directed a nationwide consultation process, and analysed a hell of a lot of data.

Got a better-paying “real” job at a university doing (surprise!) international admissions. Worked there for 2.5 years until the new boss turned out to be such a bad manager that I had to quit before the stress caused a complete breakdown (to give you some perspective, more than half the department quit as well, and I lasted longer than most).

After a brief period of unemployment, got a job with the same government department (now the SRA – same people, new name) on a two-year contract. This was mostly project work and internal administration, including some work with budgets, but mostly process management.

Shortly before my contract ran out (which they couldn’t renew due to some Civil Service regs), I started a one-year MA in Arts Administration and Cultural Policy. Which I enjoyed, and I completed. During the course I had a three-month internship with the Barbican Centre (Audience Developent dept.), a stint interviewing people for an Art Marketing consultancy, and some “stewarding” work for a couple of outdoor festivals.

And here I am – experienced in working with students, artists, government agencies; skilled in collecting, analysing and reporting data of all sorts (see – that Music History degree taught me something useful); and extremely flexible in what I can do or learn to do quickly.

Which, in part, is the problem: I’m a generalist. Nobody’s hiring generalists these days. They want someone who has experience doing EXACTLY the same thing they need at the moment. I know – I call the places who send me rejection letters (or, as I’ve come to fondly call them, “Dear Bozo” letters) and they tell me this. Never mind that the person they hired can’t tie his own shoes, or that the program they want experience in could be learned by a chimpanzee in under an hour – they want THAT guy.

While I’m rambling, here’s a story that makes me feel smug and superior: when I was jobhunting during my first temp job days, I interviewed for an office manager’s job at the college I eventually ended up doing my degree at, in the same department. I was one of four finalists. I found out later that the committee had liked me best, the office staff had liked me best, I was the best qualified candidate – but I’d indicated that I need to give a few weeks’ notice. So they hired one of the other candidates on the basis that he could start the next day. (Heck, if I’d known that was the only issue, I would have told my employer of the time “Sorry, but byeeeee”). He turned out to be a complete bumbling fool who caused (and continues to cause) major chaos there. I know this isn’t very nice, but ha ha ha, serves you right.
:wally

So there ya go. The story of my life. Here’s hoping that something comes along before I turn into that guy from The Boys from the Black Stuff (sorry – UK TV reference) and wander the streets going “Gissa job!”.

As a linguisticina turned computer programmer, with a job background that includes drainage works, academia, and the New Media, I think I know where you’re coming from on the “generalist” thing … There are jobs out there for generic problem-solvers; after a couple of hundred CVs emphasizing “transferable skills” and “lateral thinking”, I even managed to find one. While I was looking, I took every bit of help that was going… someone in the local church is looking for a volunteer to do data entry? I’ve got mornings free. The DSS will pay for me to do a basic first aid course? Sign me up. I got several Mickey Mouse qualifications that way, as well as a level 3 NVQ, which is, well, less Mickey Mouse - but I think it did most good by proving my brain hadn’t seized up while I was out of work. Are the Government still offering any of this stuff?

(This is how, despite not having a job for more than four years, I never technically managed to be “long-term unemployed”. Every time I got on a new training course, they changed my status, so I was never “unemployed” long enough to be “long-term”. Fudging figures: gotta love it.)

jr8, I’ve only been doing it for three weeks and I’m going mad. I’ll aim all my job-mojo in your direction.

My thing is this: If they would just let me in the door, I could prove to them that I can do the job (even if it’s a crappy one) well. I know that I can, but not even getting a response back means I cannot convince anyone of anything. It’s an exercise in futility to ring back, week after week and be told that the Headmaster/mistress still hasn’t looked at my CV. ARGH!

So, in closing, I know what you’re up against, and it SUCKS.

Exactly!!! My BF was in a gov’t job and totally hated it, despite him being one of the most brilliant 'puter guys in the city. But he’d just barely graduated and was stuck in the old “no experience, no job” thing.

I would see someone, oh say in a auto shop where I was getting "christine’ (my evil caddy) fixed, having trouble with their puter, and I’d say “Hey, I know someone”. At first he was working for dinners and gas fill-ups.

Plus, doing those low-paying or volunteer gigs gets you NOTICED!!! Your name starts getting known in your field. Pretty soon (I know, not soon enough [empathy smilie]), someone says about YOU “hey! I know this guy…”.

I find the hardest part of the contemporary job-search is restraining the impulse to physically tear apart the braindead employment agents one is forced to attempt to communicate with day after day.

I consistently found them to be the stupidest, most useless of people. Utterly uninterested in you, your skills and situation, or in fact anything at all beyond the next zero-labour commission and stealing clients from each other.

As far as I can tell the only thing a modern agent does is run your CV through a keyword-harvesting program, which then trivially compares the results to keywords in job descriptions. The amount of thought required is nil. Somehow they still get paid.

So if you’re sending your CV around agencies, be sure it’s well stocked with every buzzword there is. If you have even a minimal understanding of some skill that is conceivably relevant to the position you want, write it into the CV. Hell, even if you don’t have industry-related skill X at all, put in something like “I don’t yet have skill X but am looking to learn” just to get past the keyword filter that will roundfile anything that doesn’t contain the text “skill X”.

This is the only way around the wall of inaction and incompetance that agents have formed around each prospective employer.

THis has always been my stance. I’m a damned good employee when I have the resources and I’m left to do my job. I may not have the most education, I may not have ALL of the skills they’re looking for, but once I get in the door, I’m as valuable as friggin oxybeg! GRR.

Sadly, I can’t even get a crappy job. And the way things are going, things won’t be getting better for us anytime soon.

2 months ago I said “fuck’em” and have taken over running my mom’s Chiropractic office. It doesn’t pay, really, but it’s better than getting my teeth kicked in twice a week by employers who are maybe looking to hire someone for a $13/hr. customer service job as long as he has a fuckin B.S. or MASTERS degree + 7 years of experience! for $13-$15 an hour!!!

Ludicrous. Absolutely f’in ludicrous.

Sam

I’ll third that. Just give me a chance and I’ll prove I’m worth every penny you’re paying me and probably a bit more.

Canvas shoes, I’m not getting 99 chances to go on interviews. In the last six months, I’ve had two or three and one was only because I serve on a committe with a vice president of a bank. Not only were they not hiring, they laid off a bunch of their programmers.

Oh well. At least I’m in America and it looks like the military will be hiring real soon. :rolleyes:

CJ

I once applied for a job at an employment agency, on the principle that, by that time, I knew a fair bit about job hunting…

I was turned down, of course. The reason being - I was too nice, apparently. “You have to be a bastard to do this job,” the interviewer explained.

pssssssssst. Feeling like a total idiot here, but ummmm, btw, what’s the “CV”??

Argh. Man, you guys are bringing back some ugly ugly memories. I know it sucks, and I in no way want to minimize how hard it is.

Looking for a job far outweighs actually having a job insofar as “suckiness” imo.

To write the resumes that will get the interviews? Or have a better chance? I’d reiterate my advice about getting books designed for managers looking for employees and what to look for in a resume, and then tailoring it after that.

I know that, just like when someone is heartbroken, nothing anyone says or suggests is really going to make them feel much better, but know that a lot of us have been there and are pulling for you!!

Curriculum vitae. A more in-depth version of a resume.

indeed, jr8 I am in the same crowded boat. Also a generalist/career changer. What did I change careers to? Telecommunications! Timing is everything. Ugh. I know about the trials; I find myself in the depths of black depression most Mondays. I have had a few interviews recently, although nothing has broke my way yet. Don’t forget to keep things in balance. Do things to get you out of the house. For me it’s volunteering as a scout leader, and playing some frisbee golf for physical activity.
You do need to try to keep a positive attitude most of the time. That will help you more than anything I think. Know that there’s us folks in the trenches too. You’re not alone.
And CanvasShoes- good, good, good advice. Thank you for sharing it with us.

  • it’s been far too long since I had a job , and I’m at the point where I’d rob old ladies if it meant that my application would end in the pile that actually gets a reply, even if it’s a “no”. Heck, that means someone to call and ask why I got dropped, some sort of feedback, some sense of contact.

I have the skills. I have more experience than most. Feh, I started computer networking when 9600 baud X.25 was a hot technology. I have replied to ads that looked like a friggin’ photocopy of my CV, no joy. I have registered with agencies, fat lot of good that does. I’ve searched online, in the papers, pounded pavement and embarrassed the hell out of myself by abusing social contacts.

I’m embarking on a direct mail assault, the goal is to get out at least 200 resumes.

The most frustrating part ? Meeting people - with jobs - who do not possess 50% of the qualifications I have. By rights, I should have their job, dammit! Or meeting people who tell about the workload being so extreme that they’re working 6 days. And envying them.

A ray of light: I’ll soon be interviewing for a job as night class teacher (in my field). It’s not really what I’ve been dreaming of, but I am going to grab that opportunity by the throat, just to do something, to feel productive. (OK, I actually like teaching.)

And with those parting words, I’ve go back to the presentation I’ll be making tonight to a local Cisco user group. It’s not because I have a burning desire to tell everyone about Border Gateway Protocol version 4, it’s a chance to become a name to some of these people. With jobs. Who may need someone else. You never know.

Feh. I can’t even sell that line to myself anymore.

What industry is it used for? It’s not something I’m familiar with.

I do know that really lengthy, in-depth type resumes are out of vogue. At least from what I’ve seen, and here in the states.

If only I was the entrepreneurial type… I am sure there is an absolute fortune to be made by starting an ethical recruitment agency staffed by intelligent human beings.

Maybe some intelligent software would do the job well enough… something to think about. What I really need to do is find some HR people who hire a lot, see what the problems are from their perspective. I feel a project brewing… something to cut these criminally incompetant middlemen out of the jobsearch grind would be well worth doing.

Oops, I forgot to add what I look for in an applicant. Maybe I’m sorta weird (but then so are most of my collegues then, because we’re all the same way).

We hate the stupid “where do you want to be in 5 years” type questions.

What I look for is first skill, and then character, just as you all have been describing.

Dang! It’s like a feeding frenzy up here during “field season” only it’s a sellers market, with all the enviro companies struggling to hire the best enviro people.

We’d kill to have folks like you with such good work ethics, smarts and ability to just plain old “think”!

I and I know you all know what I mean there.

CanvasShoes, I’m also willing to relocate. One problem I have is computers are a second career for me – I started off a Japanese translator. The result is in the current market, companies are looking for a Bachelor’s degree in Computer Science or Engineering. My Bachelor’s degree is in Japanese. My Associate’s is in Computer Science. As a result, I suspect I don’t make the first cut.

Oh well. I just attended a Pittsburgh Geek Night, made a few contacts, and met a few old friends. I heard an estimate that about 30% of the people there were unemployed, but this was a crowd of technical types, and I suspect I wasn’t the only one there trying to network.

CJ

damn. I have no skill. Plenty o’character though…

A CV would have more personal information than a US resume. Your marital status, age and references are listed. IIRC, the first two are not required in the US as it’s illegal (or possibly against policy) to require them.

Try getting a “yes” that makes you stop looking for a job and then having it turn into a “no” a week before you start.
That hurts.