You’re missing the point. The comments you quoted were women discussing their personal experiences about their own breasts and bras. It was not an academic discussion, but it was a genuine discussion. Sometimes the comments including sexual context and sometimes not but in either case, it was the person attached to the boobs that made the remark.
Non-boob having persons popping in to shout, “Boobs are sexy!” reduces all of the remarks, sexual and otherwise, to the sexual context of a person who does not own any of the boobs in discussion.
The fact that you see all the quotes you provided in terms of your own ideas is specifically the problem. The women involved were discussing their personal experiences - but all you hear is your own thoughts about their bodies, and your thoughts are limited to seeing boobs as sex toys. Womens bodies are not solely sex toys and the comments you quoted explain that.
Women’s conversations about their personal experiences are not enhanced by men barging in and laying down irrelevant comments about something that they’ve never experienced.
Is that what the OP of this thread did? Because all I saw was a comment “I don’t know if that turns me on or off” in response to a post from a boob-having person describing hers as “Large, saggy, sweaty breasts.” after a long list of other posts discussing their breasts roles in sexual activity including their use to turn on or off sexual partners and joking, non-serious, sexual euphemisms.
Thank you for trying to help me understand what I see and what I think, but you are woefully incorrect on both counts. I’m not sure who you think you are to presume to explain to me my own point of view or patronizingly rattle off from your male/female relations handbook why it’s wrong, but I have never - since long before “booby gate” here a few years ago and continuing to this day - given any reason for you or anyone else to believe that my thoughts are limited to seeing women’s bodies solely as sex toys. I have never made any of the types of drive-by comments under discussion here, and I am more sensitive, I think, than many others here arguing with me to the problems women face in an over-sexualized society.
Conversations about car problems are not enhanced by non-mechanics stepping in to give their opinion or personal anecdotes about a car they had 23 years ago either.
That doesn’t preclude people from posting thier 2 cent opinions and drive-by stupid jokes in any other types of threads. This is a public message board.
If you knew anything at all about what you preach, you would understand that making a case like this in the context it was made actually undermines women’s equality and ability to function in a world full of genuine inappropriate sexualization.
If the tiresome, juvenile, and sometimes aggressive interruptions of non-mechanics were a persistent problem in car threads, this would be a great analogy.
I really feel that for men, this is a situation in which the Golden Rule doesn’t apply. Many men enjoy talking about their bodies and sex habits in a bluff, jocular sort of way, and even enjoy receiving rude or gross responses. It’s just not the same for most women. Even when they’re joking around about these topics, there’s a sense of embarrassment and fear lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce and ruin the lighthearted mood. The perception of being ogled or evaluated by men tends to draw its attack.
If you’re a man, and you treat women exactly the way you would like to be treated yourself, you will sometimes make them very uncomfortable.
Hmm. Different rules for men vs women is problematic IRL, but even more so in a venue where you really don’t even know who is a man and who is a woman. For example, can anyone here honestly say that they know for sure that I’m a man and not a woman?
It also begs the question of whether a lesbian or bisexual woman participating in such a thread would be violating this rule.
It would be OK for her to say “Come on baby, shake those money makers!” in a totally non-sexual way as one of the girls trying to have a frank, non-sexual discussion about whether or not they perform a strip tease before sex. But how would we know if she was actually typing that in an intrusive, harassing way like a guy would?
Hmmm, imagine that, it’s almost like lesbians are women themselves and as women can:
A) contribute meaningfully to the thread, and
B) do so without harassing anyone, because
C) they, being women, don’t see other women as not quite their equal
But by all means, go on finding excuses for your poor behavior, like you’re not the one with the problem.
The question that we seem to be revolving around but never quite hitting is this:
Can a post in a thread be inappropriate solely because the poster is a man, or appropriate solely because the poster is a woman?
I would, again, point you to the title of the thread in question: “Women, talk to me about your bra habits please”. The thread was specifically soliciting comments from women. Men were not invited to participate at all. It didn’t exactly say “NO BOYS ALLOWED”, but that’s the implication I got, and that’s the type of message I tend to obey.
The mod commented on the content of the posts, not on the sex of the posters. In the unlikely event that a lesbian had posted something along those lines, she may have gotten a similar comment. I don’t see this question going anywhere interesting.
I do think there are things that can be okay for a member of a group to say about the group, and not okay for someone who isn’t a member of that group to say. But I don’t think that is the case in this thread.
I would say No, as a matter of theory–but as far as I know, the obnoxious posts of the sort at hand here have always come from posters readily recognizable as men.
I suppose there could be an aggressive, insensitive lesbian who made similar posts and made women uncomfortable; I’d leave it to the women who were bothered to make it known, if such a person ever appeared.
But it is the content that is the problem. Not any and every comment by a man is problematic, surely, even in a thread by, for, and about women.
There aren’t different rules for men and women. It’s simply a general rule–that happens to be applied to women in this case. The rule is simply that you don’t get to dismiss the opinions of an entire class of people. If you haven’t experienced discrimination on the issue at hand, you aren’t in any position to tell people that it shouldn’t bother them.
A similar situation would be telling a black person they shouldn’t be offended by “watermelon and fried chicken” jokes. Or telling gay people that saying someone isn’t a “real man” shouldn’t bother them.
You don’t need to know the gender of the poster to see the problem. Though, yes, I’m rather sure you are male. You have presented as male on this board, so that is your gender. External gender is socially defined.
PARODY people, it was parody. Holy shit can you not even see the absurdity of claiming someone was making sexual jokes in a serious sexual topic when the people participating in the thread were making their own jokes? Calling breasts a playground, saying I’d do it with my socks on but not my bra, etc. are also then violations of that exact rule.
And gallow fodder I’d appreciate you showing me an example of my poor behavior since I didn’t participate in the thread and haven’t ever posted such comments myself.
The actual rule has nothing to do with men or women or any protected classes or special considerations. It has nothing to do with making people comfortable - there isn’t a rule that everyone has to be comfortable with what someone posts, or we would all be banned. There isn’t a rule that we need to make special provisions for female posters. There is a rule that we can’t make sexual jokes in serious sexual threads, and the thread in question isn’t a serious sexual thread. If the OP and many participants insist that it is a serious sexual thread, then any jokes, whether from male or female participants, should have been modded equally.
Crazyhorse, I know I said it’s pointless to try to think of a comparable situation for men, but maybe this will be a little closer. Let’s say for a minute that sexual attention from another man is undesired by you. Imagine the following exchange in a “boxers or briefs” thread:
You: I like boxers because otherwise the boys get all hot and unhappy down there.
Man: Oooh, the thought of your sweaty balls is turning me on! Yum!
Or a thread about “men, tell me your manscaping habits”:
You: I trim a little, but my wife doesn’t like the completely shaved look during sex.
Man: Trim as much as you like and come talk to me! I’d gargle your shaved balls any time!
Do you see the difference between you joking about your balls and somebody whose attention you don’t want joking about them? You were being lighthearted referring to “the boys”, you were talking about sex - does that open you up to any jokes people want to make about your balls? Those ball jokes probably don’t seem funny to you, but maybe they were hilarious to the guy who made them (because PARODY!). Does that make it OK?
And now imagine that stuff like that happened every time you posted in a thread, day after day. At what point would you be willing to say it’s OK to moderate it?
I totally understand what you’re saying, it’s just that it doesn’t mesh with any board rule. The same could be said for fat jokes, I’m sure a lot of posters are overweight and hear them all too often in genuinely hurtful contexts. Various races, nationalities, religions, political ideologies, etc. are all subject to the very same sensitivities.
There isn’t a rule that we have to ensure everyone will be comfortable or happy about what we post.** Idle Thoughts **linked to the rule in question in post #`18.
It wasn’t a serious sexual topic. If it was, then it doesn’t matter who made the jokes, males and females should have been modded equally. If it wasn’t, then none of the comments should have been.
You’re picking nits. Maybe Doctor Jackson’s joke doesn’t fall strictly under rule 3, but it certainly is afoul of #1, “directed at another poster on this board.”
Again, a woman joking about her breasts is entirely different than a man joking about her breasts. I disagree strongly that both cases should be modded equally.