A bit of clarification, and a request for more

I’m sorry if this is inappropriate, but I feel that a bit of clarification may be in order.

In this thread, TVeblen chastizes Danielinthewolvesden for

I’d just like to point out that Fenris is the Jewish poster related to Holocaust survivors, and Ben was the poster refered to as “pals” with Goebbels. I’m not sure if Ben is related at all to Holocaust survivors as well, but a brief search came up inconclusive on the matter. I’m sure Ben could clarify that matter.

Not being in a position of either a moderator or a participant in the above referenced thread, I will leave it at that. I’m sure the various parties will want an opportunity for further clarification or defense, and that any interested moderator will communicate the proper forum (i.e. this thread, another thread, e-mail, etc.) in which this is to be discussed.

Also, I apologize again if this post/thread is inappropriate to have been posted, I just feel that that if a poster is going to be recommended for banning, it not be based on incorrect information.


This is already being handled in email, Connor, but it’s a legitimate question. You’re absolutely correct; Fenris is the Jewish poster, and Ben was the one imputed to be pals with Goebbels. It makes the comment somewhat less vile, but the one comment isn’t the whole issue.

I immediatly turned the matter over to administrators for one simple, cogent reason: they’re the ones who oversee the entire boards. (If you’ll allow a slight tangent to address some related misconceptions by dropzone, any moderator can take action in any forum, making notice to the regular mods by email. Which I did. It’s a routine thing. In this particular instance, none of the Pit mods happened to be online at the time, so turning it over to them directly wasn’t an option.)

The administrators handled banning because they do have the large picture. I don’t read GD constantly but enough to know that DITWD has had an unusual number of nasty run-ins with other posters and an uncommonly hostile approach to Gaudere as well. In other words, I knew there was a lot of history and this incident was just another chapter.

I did make a personal recommendation for banning and I’d do the same again. That’s my threshold for deliberate hatefulness and baiting. But it’s a recommendation only, and reviewed by others in a wider context–as it should be. DITWD is not banned, and heaven knows no one could hold the self-restraint, judgment and fairness of the admins and other mods in higher regard than I do. I fully support their ultimate decision.

Your thread isn’t at all inappropriate or unjust. Mixing Fenris with Ben was confusing, and that one’s up to me. But do keep in mind banning doesn’t happen in a vacuum. FWIW, there’s a flurry of emails going on in the background even now, some with posters documenting experience that relates to this issue.

If my actions appeared heavy-handed, I reget that. The most crucial priorities seemed to be getting a very nasty situation stopped, turning it over for review by the appropriate people, and trying to prevent another free-for-all rehash of related–or unrelated–grievances.

FWIW, I’m–demonstrably–as fallible as anyone, but it would be helpful to remember that checks & balances exist, situations are reviewed in context and the goal is a smoothly functioning board. I sure don’t claim perfection–that one would get shot down in about 3 seconds–and any decision is open for interpretation. But the mistakes I make are honest ones, not out of malice or spite, and I rely on the excellent folks I work with as fail-safes.


  1. I apologize to ben, or to anyone else who thought I was calling ben a “nazi”. I was not, altho i can see how, in my anger & haste, my wording could be interpreted as such. I was saying Ben used the “big lie” technique, which was popularized by someone whose name we apparently should not mention, altho it has been used by others. And, as we can see, that technique of making up a complete falsehood, and repeating it over & over- has worked.

  2. I have never had any sort of harsh word or critism of gaudere until she started a PIT thread about me. After that, I assume i am entitled to criticise her attack on me. Which is all that I have done. She attacked me in a PIT thread- and i think her opinions were wrong. I have not complained about her actions as a moderator, nor her opinions or postings- EXCEPT her attack on me in a PIT thread. Why is that not OK? Unless, you are somehow saying that a Moderator, acting as a private poster- is immune from counter-attacks. I do not think that is what you are saying, but…

  3. ben has spent hours & a myriad of posts continueing this program of spreading his opinion of me, including threads where i had no presence, and after being warned to stop. He started threads simply to continue baiting & spreading his lies about me. True- I have retaliated. However- in my mind, his tactics are designed to harrass me- and guess what- they worked! Now- why is THAT not “being a jerk”?

  4. “DITWD has had an unusual number of nasty run ins with other posters”. WTF? Yes- my strong opinions annoy some. But- THEY are the ones starting PIT threads about ME. I do not start PIT threads about THEM. They launch personal attacks on me- I have never started any personal attacks on anyone. After MUCH provocation- i will sometimes respond in kind. I have also, several times- ignored these personal attack & baiting attempts- but I do not have the patience & temperment of a saint.

  5. Why did you not email me 1st- before attacking me? I would then have explained- and as above, apologized for the implied but not meant insult. Altho I do not resent your involvement; your misreading & misunderstanding the posts- and then asking that i be banned was, IMHO, uncalled for. You could retract that, you know.

  6. At this point in time- i have not rcvd an email from you. I sent one to you and one to TUBA. Tuba replied, with a reasonable comment.

  7. Connor- thank you very much for starting this thread. I was starting to think I was crazy and that somehow I did insult fenris. Fenris is a good poster, who used an unfortunate analogy, much as i did . He explained himself- and I apologized for my confusion.

Again- to anyone who thought I was calling Ben a “nazi”- i was not, and i apologize for the confusion.


Your comment in that thread, directed at myself, that

is a falsehood. You are invited to retract it.

Oh, good. Another martyr; we were running short.

First off, it was addressed to you AND dropzone. Both of you, within 20 minutes, posted demands for justification, rule interpretation and in dropzone’s case, review of past incidents:

Hate to disagree with you, Veb, but that statement doesn’t wash here…(snipped for space)…And I don’t remember you threatening anybody with banning when I was being accused of being a Nazi a while back–in MPSIMS!

I expressed some disgust–which had just deepened, btw–over the practice of dumping past baggage on available bonfires and making tense situations worse by instantly demanding a full arson investigation before the embers are even out. Good grief, read some past threads, reflect a little first, couldya?

During those 20 minutes, I was: juggling incoming emails, 2 IM’s, trying to locate an Admin or Pit mod online, drafting a background email for admin, and keeping an eye on the thread. Silly me, I didn’t want to be a facist and just lock it. I didn’t have the time right then.

This was my answer:
Know what, Izzy and dropzone? I clean up the messes I see and right now I’m just not too inclined to get into another long, involved discussion about case law, precedents, “whaddabout when X said this to me” whining.

dropzone made his expectations clear in return:

No incident is isolated, dear. The whole world is a web of precedents.* As a “moderator” your role is to moderate. Not just when you feel like it, but all of the time.** (bolding mine) If things are so slow at IMHO that you need to play moderator in The Pit, maybe you should find another hobby. And if Nazi baiting is bannable here, then it should be in all of the forums. Rules cannot be enforced arbitrarily without losing all meaning, and throwing your weight around like you did here does not reflect well on you.*

All the above–within ONE HOUR. Knee jerk, a bit, perhaps?

The vast majority of thoughtful, bright, reasonable posters make the effort worthwhile but it doesn’t include eating crap.


Pardon me, as I really do not want to have anything to do with this, but how can a claim that one self is disgusted be a falsehood?

Or perhaps you meant that the perceived cause of TVeblen’s disgust is a falsehood. Which, BTW, it wasn’t.


I’m not taking sides in this issue, but I think that you misunderstand…

…I’m pretty sure that the falsehood IzzyR refers to is the part where TVeblen writes:

“you are choosing to address your own perceived issues and dissatisfactions rather than what just happened”

Do you see? That’s the falshood that I think that IzzyR resents…

Guys- I know you really did not start this just for me, even tho i appreciate it anyway. However, I have agreed to “let it pass”. Please respect my wishes in this. I have no inducement, power or authority to make you stop- but for the good of our little community here, please do so. Thank you.

Whoa IzzyR, wait a minute there. While moderators on the Straight Dope are by all means authorized to moderate in any forum, they do have their home turf. Why are you accusing Vebbie of negligence in her moderating in a forum that isn’t her own?

Provide me a with a link to the alleged Nazi-calling, and I’ll give you a ruling here and now - if it’s in MPSIMS as you say it is.

In the meantime, I’d appreciate a little more respect for someone who’s trying to separate the good from the bad. Free of charge. With good intentions. And good results even. Because DITWD’s remark struck me as offensive as well - I’m glad he explained himself.


I did not demand immediate anything. Merely requested that some clarifiction be provided for what manner of insult has been deemed to be over the line, in the context of overall moderating guidelines. Especially if you made good on your attempt to ban DITWD.

But that’s not my point. I don’t care much if you are disgusted with me or the like. The only thing I ask is that my words not be misrepresented. Your claim that I addressed my “own perceived issues and dissatisfactions rather than what just happened” is factually incorrect. You should have the decency to admit this. After that you may go back to an even deeper disgust.


You are attributing dropzone’s words to me. It just goes on and on…

Sorry about the misunderstanding Izzy.
OK, dropzone, step up! :wink: