A certain computer company, and why their customer support sucks!

[JThunder]

Since you asked, threemae, the company’s name rhymes with Boshiba.

(Why didn’t I mention this sooner? Basically, I’m just reluctant to do such things, even when I know that there’s no harm in doing so. It’s just natural reticence on my part.)

I’m glad that you agree, at least. What people like fluiddruid don’t seem to understand is that these aren’t mere frivolous items that we’re talking about. I’d have more sympathy for his point of view if we had been talking about a video game system, or shiny beads, or a kewl T-shirt. (I’d still disagree, but I would be more sympathetic toward that view.)

No, we are talking about vital components that companies and individuals need for their daily affairs-- the kinds of things that can make or break businesses, or that can cost someone his job. The company has to give the customer accurate information, such as if they still need to verify part status. Or, if an unexpected delay occurs, the vendor has a responsibility to notify the customer, so that the customer can explore other options. End of story.

If a mechanic tells me that it’ll take three days to fix my car, I will trust that he will notify me if parts need to be backordered, or if something else goes awry. That way, I can arrange alternate transportation, if necessary. Anything else would be simply irresponsible.

And the same holds true for a computer vendor. Heck, my laptop is many times more important that my automobile is, since I can always take the bus or rent a car on short notice. The same can’t be said for my computer.

If the mechanic were to plead ignorance by saying “I’m not a fortune teller!” or “That’s not how our system works!”, it would be simply inexcusable.

Would this cut into the mechanic’s profit margins? Perhaps – but if the mechanic can’t afford that, then he shouldn’t be in that business. And if the computer vendor has to withhold vital information from the customers in order to maintain their profit margins, then they have no business being in that field. Let the market forces determine if they should exist or not.

And if a company fails to understand that view, then I have no sympathy for them, either.

[Palikia]

I order a lot of things by telephone and every company I have ever dealt with has always been able to tell me instantly if an item is in stock. That’s what computerized inventory is for! The only exception, ever, was General Electric, when I needed a handle to replace the piece of crap one that that broke off my just out of warranty GE fridge. The GE CSR assured me that one would be shipped and delivered on a certain day. When that day arrived, and no handle, I called back and then learned that the handle was out of stock and they didn’t know when new ones would be received. Maybe six weeks if I was lucky. I went through a third party (Home Depot) who had the handle in stock and got it to me within a couple of days for $30.00 less than the price quoted by General Electric. GE service is a joke.

[fluiddruid]

@threemae

I can’t stand crappy customer service. It would cost too much for a comapany simply to call and say, “Sorry, the part has been backordered; our fault, but we’ll rectify it as soon as possible?” Boo fucking hoo. If they screw up in the first place, they can spend the $2.00 to call and e-mail somone and say that.

I don’t think you realize how much it really costs to call customers back. An e-mail system would be nice, or perhaps an automated system; we have that, for example, for cards that are declined. As I’ve stated before, these things cost money – even for big companies. I think you should seek out companies that have good service. Most people don’t – for most companies, prices are king. I’m explaining why things happen the way that they do.

Personally, I like excellent service. It just comes with a cost. You can’t expect the company to just absorb that. They will be outcompeted by companies with bad service and low costs.

Shop around for good service. Don’t just rant in the Pit.

@jthunder

I’m glad that you agree, at least. What people like fluiddruid don’t seem to understand is that these aren’t mere frivolous items that we’re talking about.

I do understand that it’s important to you, yes – I never said that it wasn’t. That had nothing to do with my argument about whether it was deceptive or not, which is probably better to drop at this point. I am arguing on the side of the agent and the customer service office – the focus of this rant – by trying to make you aware of why things happen. I don’t think the second person you talked to was particularly good, as I also argued that the representative should have apologized and more empathy for you, but that ultimately I don’t think, or his supervisor, he has an obligation to thwart the companies policies or have the power to change them because you dislike them. I probably showed poor judgement to come into a thread where you are obviously angry and upset about the situation, as can be seen from your responses to me.

I encourage you to contact this company through an appropriate channel to voice your opinion. Too much blame is laid at the hands of people who can’t make changes.

I absolutely agree that notification systems for backorders, real-time inventory, etc. make for a better service experience. I’m simply asking – who pays? Would you have originally ordered from this company if they advertised all of these features of customer service with a higher price? The point is, most people won’t. Even big companies need to make money.

Customer service is looked at as an expense, not a way to recruit customers. If you seek out companies with good service, good – more work for people like me and less work exported to Pakistan or given to people with little to no ability to communicate in a professional way (like the man you spoke to).

[MidnightRadio]

@rolandgunslinger

I bet the company rymes with “Hateway”

Wouldn’t surprise me in the least. The hard drive on my Gateway laptop died a few months ago and they had to send me a new one. When I got the new one, I called tech support for help in setting up the new drive. They told me to put in my red Drivers and Applications disc and I did, but for some reason, a lot of the files that were supposed to be on the disc weren’t there. It turned out that when I’d bought the computer, they’d sent me a Drivers and Applications disc for a different model. So, naturally, I asked them to send me a new one. But they couldn’t, at least not without charging me thirty-five dollars. Why, you ask? Because any bad or incorrect discs are supposed to be returned within thirty days of the computer’s purchase. Except… How would I know that the disc was the wrong one unless something went wrong and I had to use it? The CSR couldn’t give me an explanation for this and I knew it would just be a waste of time to continue discussing it, so I asked what I could do to get the files I needed without having to pay any money. He said that he could email them to me and I could burn them onto a CD and then install them. I told him I couldn’t do that because the computer needed the files in order to be able to burn anything and when I told him I didn’t know anyone who could do it for me, he accused me of lying!

[threemae]

@fluiddruid

I don’t think you realize how much it really costs to call customers back. An e-mail system would be nice, or perhaps an automated system; we have that, for example, for cards that are declined. As I’ve stated before, these things cost money – even for big companies.

And to that, I say bullshit. Any part is probably a relatively low cost compared to shipping, packaging, stocking, and delivering that part. A call back for a severly delayed part should still occurr.

[fluiddruid]

I guess it’s my word against your feeling, then. I won’t lose sleep over it.

[threemae]

@fluiddruid

I guess it’s my word against your feeling, then. I won’t lose sleep over it.

And what precisely is the basis of your word?

How much to telephone support staff cost? $10/hr? Triple that for benefits and paying for the phone they use? $30/hr? And how long does it take to call someone and leave a message telling them that their product is delayed? 2 minutes? What about idle order takers already sitting there in down times? Why not just have them call?

[astro]

Extra Toshiba notebook power adapters for msot popular models can usually be had on eBay for $ 20-$40 or so. It’s handy insurance in case yours dies again.

[Antonius_Block]

[checks Asbestos underwear]
I’m not usually a Pit denizen, and I’m sure that fluiddruid is a nice person in real life, but…

FUCK IT, fluiddruid, you really seem to be tryiing to turn this into a meta-thread. The OP complains about something, and your replies consist of repeating exactly the same kind of run-around crap that he’s complaining about! They read as though they were generated by some evil Customer Service auto-responder, perhaps a FluidDroid?

@fluiddruid

Should we tell every caller that there is a possibility our order will backorder? Should we also tell customers that it is possible that their package could be lost in the mail, or stolen from their mailbox, or that conditions (like hurricanes) could delay delivery, or that if their credit card doesn’t work the order won’t ship? We can’t tell everyone every possible outcome on every call.

<snipping more of the same fluiddruid shite several times>

@JTHunder

And I swear, you mention that bullshit about how hurricanes happen, packages are stolen, etc. one more time, I am going to scream.

@fluiddruid

If you feel you need to scream when I make a point, but choose to not answer the questions I’ve made regarding that point, I feel the discussion is better ended at this point.

fluiddruid, you have shown yourself to be of the very mindset that is behind the complaints of pretty much everyone in this thread other than yourself. Your idea of explanation seems to consist of “hurricanes happen too, why don’t you complain about them?”

I buy a lot of stuff over the phone and via the Web, much of which is crucial for my own small business. Perhaps I’m lucky in that the vast majority of my suppliers do have advanced inventory systems, so I can find out (either via the Web or by calling the salesperson) whether or not something is in stock. If I found out later on that they had given me a ship date based on false information (e.g. a part on backorder), without an updated e-mail or phone call, I would expect at the very least an apology and an admission that they had screwed up and that steps would be taken to correct it. If that were not the case, my suppliers would go out of business in a matter of months.

IMHO, JTHunder and many others in this thread are in the right and you, fluiddruid, are wrong. If you are in the Customer Service business, and you think that it’s better to give the customer an incorrect date than express any doubt whatsoever, and yet claim that it’s too expensive to keep updated those customers to whom you have promised a ship date, then your company deserves to fail and you should seriously consider a new career.

As I said earlier, I’m sure that you’re an OK person, but your arguments in this thread belie the general reputation of the US as being a place where customer service matters. If you are spouting your company policy, then shame on your company.

[Antonius_Block]

@Antonius Block

fluiddruid, you have shown yourself to be of the very mindset that is behind the complaints of pretty much everyone in this thread other than yourself.

I should have expressed that more clearly as “you have shown yourself to be of the very mindset that generates the complaints of pretty much everyone in this thread other than yourself.” I apologize for the ambiguity.

[LordVor]

@Antonius Block

• If you are in the Customer Service business, and you think that it’s better to give the customer an incorrect date than express any doubt whatsoever, and yet claim that it’s too expensive to keep updated those customers to whom you have promised a ship date, then your company deserves to fail and you should seriously consider a new career.

I think it’s fair to say that his point is that companies like the ones in the OP are not in the customer service buisiness, mainly because most customers aren’t willing to pay more up front to deal with a company that has good customer service.

Which is a legitamite point. Boshiba’s current customer service policies were probably in place when the OP bought the laptop in the first place, yet the OP didn’t find out anything about them prior to making the purchase. Therefore, good customer service was not a selling point on that transaction, and their customer service didn’t add or subtract to their bottom line in that case. In fact, if, say, “Bell” had to charge an extra $20 per laptop to support a better customer service infrastructure, the fact that they had better customer service would have hurt their chances to get this customer.

-lv

[fluiddruid]

All right, let me set a few things straight here, as obviously I feel that I am the one being Pitted, and I feel it is a bit unfair.

First of all, in no way do my company’s policies agree on this topic. We have different procedures involving backorder and notification, and are in a completely different industry.

Second of all, you can think of me as a drone, uncaring, or whatever you like. Truth be told, I am none of those things. I am simply someone who is familiar with the operations of a customer service center.

Thirdly, I believe wholeheartedly in good quality customer service. jthunder, by any standard, did not receive that. If that had been an employee at my company, he would have gotten a serious talking to about his tactics. Comments like “I’m not a fortune teller” are completely inappropriate. He should have apologized and seen if there was anything more he could do about the situation. I have already made those things clear.

However, there is a mentality of people in this country that big companies have poor service because they just don’t care and somehow like to torment their customers. This is not the case. Companies want you to be happy with them! Do you think any company wants to turn away repeat business? Of course not – advertising costs money, and a lot of money at that.

The point is that people shop around for the best price, not the best service, and somebody has to pay for all of these things. Calling large numbers of customers back (and if it is a large company, even a small percentage of items backordering would be a large number requiring a dedicated staff to call back), real time inventory viewing, longer calls, etc. all cost money. Just because it is a big company does not mean that it is free or even negligible. And, quite frankly, most people bitch and moan about service all day long, but generally won’t pay more for it. I just wanted to bring a little dose of reality to the thread and explain to you the company’s mentality: in short, companies are there to make money, and customer service loses money. Unless customer service starts making the company money, companies that spend more on quality service without any additional profits can and will be weeded out by market competition.

In addition, I wanted to point out the idea of notifying the customer about every possible outcome is unimplementable. I understand the difference between something that is the company’s fault and something that isn’t. However, speaking from experience, many, many callers don’t. We tend to get the lowest common denominator of customer calling – the people who honestly cannot understand basic math or other simple things. These people often become enraged when they do not understand and often cannot understand concepts like “we do not have real time inventory, so I do not know if we have your part in stock, but we will send it as soon as we can”. Customer service can’t assume a lot of positive things about its customers, unfortunately. I understand that this is frustrating – really, I do. I find it frustrating. Spend a few days in a customer service representative’s shoes and hear the kind of calls that they do and I think that the OP and the rest of the thread would have been much different.

I doubt that everyone at the company jthunder worked with is a heartless ‘drone’. However, the individual he spoke to the second time clearly did not care about his job, and that is another unfortunate face about customer service. Most companies simply can’t afford to hire a lot of motivated, quality individuals for service.

I actually work for a company that intends to have ‘premium’ customer service. However, people do pay more for the products than they would a ‘generic’ product with no customer support. I like good service, myself, and I do pick and choose companies based on my service experiences. I encourage you to do the same.

LordVor, thank you for your post. This is what I am trying to say.

I apologize if perhaps I came across the wrong way in this thread. Hopefully this post sets straight what I am trying to express. If not, please feel free to ask questions. I know this is the Pit, but I hope we can keep things a bit more civilized.

[ffinn]

I wasn’t planning on “delurking” ever again, but I have to chime in that the absolute worst support I have ever seen is from Symantec.

I had NortonAntiVirus on my computer. When my computer crashed about six weeks ago, I bought a new one and reloaded everything. Unfortunately I had downloaded NAV from the net and didn’t have the disk. I did have the confirmation email, the license code and everything else I thought I needed. Well, turns out I couldn’t reload it. I went to their website and did everything it said, but I still couldn’t reload.

SO, I emailed their support department. Oh and BTW, Norton no longer has an 800 number for support. If you call them, they charge you some Godawful amount of money to help you. Nice.

Anyway, I emailed them and got no response for a couple of days. Then I decided that I should probably upgrade to NortonSystemWorks while I was at it, so I emailed them again. Explained the situation, told them I had already emailed them, and told them I wanted to upgrade to NSW and how could I do that and get the upgrade discount when the product wasn’t currently on my new computer.

That was six weeks ago. I finally just bought NSW '03 from someone on Amazon. New and in the box, very cheap since '05 is about to come out…and I ordered it on a Friday and it arrived on Monday. Now THERE is good customer service.

Anyway…six weeks later, I STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN A RESPONSE FROM SYMANTEC SUPPORT!

All I have to say is that it is a damn good thing they have such a good product. Otherwise, I would never contribute a dime to their coffers ever again.

Er…should I have said "rhymes with “Gorton?” Because I was thinking people would think I was talking about bad fish.

[Tuckerfan]

Uh, dude, you should have just downloaded AVG anti-virus. It’s free, and has generally gotten better reviews than any purchased software.