Late girl waits.
Bait girl dates.
Great debates.
Okay, violent rape of a man by a woman seems difficult to me, but I won’t rule it out as a possibility. How how about this: When I get drunk, I pretty much get permastiff. If a girl that I did not want to have sex with were to get me incoherently drunk (let’s assume she spiked my drink) and then proceed to have sex with me, would that be rape? What if I got myself drunk and she remained sober? I’m not making any points, just a thought… everything so far has been violent rape, which to my knowledge is less common than date rape.
http://www.madpoet.com
Computers have let mankind make mistakes faster than any other invention, with the possible exception of tequila and handguns.
well, i for one wonder whether he wasn’t asking for it. yaknow, jiggling around out there on a lonely path. probably had on those loose, flimsy, virtually see-thru runner’s shorts. really.
either that or those slick, tight biker’s shorts–bending, stretching, twisting right out there in the morning sunshine. given the circumstances, if they had apprehended the perp, what are the chances she would have been convicted by a jury of her peers? pretty damn slim in this town, i can tell ya.
and, poet, my ex was like that. he could hardly keep his eyes open after 6-8 hrs of drinking, but little peter was sprightly & permastiff (i like that word). probably why he was so popular w/ the old queens down at the bar.
CheifScott came closest to pointing out that in the US, having sex with someone under the ‘age of consent’ is statutory rape, whether the victim gave his/her verbal consent or not. With youngsters, their consent doesn’t count.
Notable exception in Alabama, at least: age of consent is 18, but you are allowed to get married at 14, with parental permission, and of course have sex with your spouse. This is not some archaic holdover from the 1800s, this is actually happening in modern times, and to people I have met.
IMHO, rape, date or otherwise, occurs when one person is coerced (or “forced” if you like) into unwanted sexual activity with a person who has been advised of their non-consent (or when the victim is incapacitated and unable to voice non-consent).
And I wouldn’t reccommend baiting lesbian bull dykes in the mall, but you already knew that, didn’t you?
Oh, I hate saying something without any sources, but. . .
I seem to recall some time ago (when the concept of “date rape”–which I do not subscribe to BTW–started becoming “in”) some woman on a talk show saying that “date rape” included gals that give consent (without being forced), but didn’t really want to. (“Well, I didn’t really want to, but he kept asking, so I finally said, ‘OK.’”)
I don’t consider that rape. And I don’t care about “date rape.” If it’s not consentual, it’s “rape.” I don’t care if it’s on a date or not.
The reason that the term “date rape” has been emphasized is that, as you correctly state, nonconsensual sex is rape, but too many women were reluctant to seek help or redress afterwards because of the misguided assumption that if you consented to a date then whatever happened later was your own fault.
cher3
I don’t believe you. http://www.spr.org/sections/about.html
Lies, damned lies and statistics…
Hey Boris,
On the site you offered, they offer the following statistics:
196,000 adult males in prisons (120,000 sexually penetrated)
123,000 adult males in jails (82,000 sexually penetrated)
added together to arrive at their total figure. What’s the difference between prison and jail? Are at least some of these numbers duplicated?
I wondered the same thing, Reservoirdog. They also don’t seem to take into account the fact that the population they are dealing with doesn’t turn over completely each year. (Neither does the population of women, but it does to a greater extent than prisons.) They also don’t seem to include girls in correctional institutions.
Anyway, I don’t want to imply that I think the rape of men and boys in prisons is a trivial problem, I was just hypothesizing one reason why it hasn’t gotten very much attention. In fact, the site BorisB included makes the very good point that the two problems are not independent.
I also agree (to a limited extent) with ChiefScott–it’s very difficult to evaluate the true figures. All we can say is: They ain’t good.
ReservoirDog
I don’t know the exact difference between jail and prison. I’m sure the definition varies from state to state, and I’m not sure how the people who gathered the statistics defined them. In general, jail is for holding people before and during trial, and punishments up to one year; they are usually county facilities. Prisons are usually state or federal facilities, and they’re for punishments of several months to several years.
So there could be duplication, if someone was punked down in a jail, and then got convicted, and was still a punk in prison. But maybe they had some mechanism to prevent duplications.
cher3
If, contrary to ChiefScott’s opinion, both our statistics are true, then the number of men raped in prison is in the same order of magnitude with the number of women raped. That doesn’t fit my definition of “miniscule”. Maybe we just disagree about the definition of that word.
Boris,
I don’t know if they are both true. I know firsthand how the rape surveys cited for the general population are done, but I’m not familiar with the studies mentioned at the prisoner site. You get vastly different results depending on how the questions are asked.
If the prisoner rape statistics are indeed accurate, then miniscule is not the right word.
All I can say is they’ve got their work cut out for them. A lot of people think women who are raped have done something to “deserve” it–imagine the general reaction if the victim is a convicted criminal.
jail is for any sentence up to a year. prison is for anything over. federal prison is for violoation of any federal crime.
TomH: I read your caveat, and I did understand that what you were presenting is English law, and not your opinion. It’s the law that’s horsepuckey.
Just out of curiosity, are the penalties the same for women convicted of indecent assault as the are for men convicted of rape?
Okay, listen: forcible sodomy, sexual assault, date rape, child molesting, whatever you want to call any of these things, specifically rape or not, are brutal criminal acts. Prosecute accordingly.
But you cannot convince me that an adult, nondrugged male can have his penis forcibly inserted into a woman’s vagina against his will without considerable:
(a)help from others
(b)involuntary hypnosis
or
©astounding gymnastics
In a nutshell,
You cannot rape the willing.
Well, Tenn hippie, usually I agree with you but not this time. There is nothing unusual about the genitals responding to manipulation independent of the desire of the person.
One female therapist I worked with said that the single most important step in the recovery of a raped or molested woman was acknowledging that those sensations occured. Much of the guilt, recrimination, and feelings of responsibility come from unconcious awareness that the body responded, the vagina lubricated, etc. Molested children, male and female, have been known to orgasm in sex which was clearly non-consensual, and often damaging.
We have a huge cultural bias that men can’t be raped, are lucky to have an older woman initiate them, always enjoy sex, etc. According to one source I’ve seen, 25% of molested boys have a female perpetrator who was not being coerced by an adult male (another common myth). And they expect that number is grossly underreported for the same reasons that held true for women victims 20 years ago.
Larry
Dillhole.
Wow, we’re all impressed by your ability to make an apple appear inadequate in relation to an orange. Rape is wrong, regardless of the gender of the victim. Does that make your goat go “neigh”?
For fuck’s sake… someone EXPLAIN the relevance of the ‘prison rape’ sidetrack, please? Does the other person’s gender have ANY bearing on the issue? If the person is the same or the opposite sex, does it make it any better or any worse? Uh, no.
Talk to a REAL rape victim or two - Anyone that has ever had to grind his/her teeth to powder, while justifying his/her own behavior to a friend or boy/girl -friend - or pace the room wondering if they were insane-- or ball up their fists and punch them into the nearest wall while trying to decide if they were a rape victim or just ‘feeling sorry for themself’ … any of these people’ll tell you what it’s like to be victimized. Any goddamn one of them will tell you what it’s like to fight off the title of victim. They can tell you what it’s like to not be able to sleep, or what it’s like to wake up in the middle of the night, or to be smacked in the face with the realization that begging won’t help, and kicking and punching and scratching just turn it into a game…
Jesus H… I can’t believe I’m responding to this thread, but I’ve been AROUND for too many women that have had to define their pain for jagoffs like this one. Dark Dragon, the moment you’ve been violated, why don’t you give me a call? I’ll show you the sympathy you deserve.
“I’ll tell you a secret, baby - maybe you can’t do better - gotta settle for second best” - the Judybats
Cristi,
Thanks for clearing that up. IIRC, actual sentences for indecent assualt are generally lower than for rape, but I think that the minimum sentence is higher for rape and the maximum sentence is life imprisonment for both.
One of the reasons is that indencent assualt covers quite a wide variety of offences including. For example, an 18 year old engaging in consensual (non-anal) homosexual intercourse with his 17 year old boyfriend. Likewise for non-vaginal, non-anal intercourse between a 16 year old boy and a 15 year old girl. On the other hand, there was a horrible case a few years ago in which a woman was assaulted with a foreign object and very seriously injured and the attacker was only guilty of the “lesser” charge of indecent assault.
Sorry, I didn’t read your post carefully enough.
It is my understanding that very few women are convicted of indecent assault, for reasons which have been well-ventilated in this thread. Namely, the assumption that sexual assault on men does not happen or is not a serious matter. It has always been said that lesbianism is not recognised at all in English law beacuse Queen Victoria did not believe that it happened, so I’m not sure about assaults by women on other women.