Two concepts about which I am not certain - quotation marks and writing numbers. In each of the following cases, which is proper?
I like the book, “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
I like the book, “To Kill a Mockingbird.”
I like the book “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
I like the book “To Kill a Mockingbird.”
This is my second win this week and my seventeenth overall.
This is my 2nd win this week and my 17th overall.
This is my second win this week and my 17th overall.
mmm
I’d like the book “To Kill a Mockingbird.”
For numbers, the general rule is to spell out cardinal numbers less than 10 (except when they being a sentence) and use numerals for anything higher. The examples are ordinal numbers, so they probably should be spelled out. (Note that these are questions of style; you can use another system as long as you’re consistent.)
Well, technically, none of these is correct–most authoritative sources would have you put a book title in italics or underlined. I would omit the comma since you are presumably specifying one book in particular so the title is essential to the meaning of your sentence, and the period would go inside the (incorrect) quotation marks in the U.S. and outside them in the UK. So choice #4 is the most nearly correct form in the U.S.
But “writing good” isn’t good, it should be “writing well” since “writing” requires an adverb. Right?
First off, if we’re going to nitpick, a title of a full book should be italicized, not in quotes (or in forms of orthography where italics aren’t practical, underlined). But one could instead ask about a short story, which should be in quote marks.
Most style guides say to put all punctuation inside the quote marks, and to eliminate duplicated punctuation marks. Some style guides, however, disagree with both of these points. I would argue that the latter is more logical: Only put inside the quote marks exactly what is being quoted, and no mark inside quote marks has scope outside of them. Thus, for instance, I might ask the question
The first question mark goes inside the quote marks, because it is part of the title of the story. The second question mark goes outside of the quote marks, since it indicates that what I am saying about the story is itself a question.
Spelled-out large numbers get unwieldy, regardless of whether they’re cardinals or ordinals. For instance, back in the vBulletin days when every member had a member ID number, a person might say that their ID number was 1762, and that they were therefore the 1762nd person to join the board. It’s equally awkward to spell out “My ID number is one thousand seven hundred sixty two” as it is to spell out “I was the one thousand seven hundred sixty second person to join”: In both cases, use of numerals is clearly preferred.
I know about the italics, but this question occurred to me while I was writing a Facebook post, where italics and underlining are not available.
I should have pointed that out in my OP, sorry.
And my “writing good” in the title was an attempt at wit. 
mmm
Short stories get quote marks and books get unerlined/italicized as already noted and movie titles are treated as full book titles. For numbers, I don’t remember now if it was high school english class, jr high speech, or creative writing, but what I was taught was that you never mix and match written numbers with spelled out numbers. “ 20 days, three hours and 7 seconds ago” is a no no, all one way or the other, otherwise it doesn’t really matter. What’s important is ease of reading written material
I have a similar issue I am always encountering. Let’s say I am asking someone if they liked the book. Which is correct?
Did you like the book, “To Kill a Mockingbird?"
Did you like the book, “To Kill a Mockingbird"?
I believe
Did you like the book, “To Kill a Mockingbird"?
is correct.
The question, which the question mark pertains to, is not in the title of the book, but addresses the entire sentence. Therefore it lives outside of the quotation marks.
At least, that’s how I understand it.
ETA: But maybe without the comma after the word “book.”
mmm
I don’t think I have ever seen this construction. Whilst I understand the logic behind it, in execution it is redundant, awkward and - in a professional context - amateurish. No reputable copy editor would ever let this pass without deleting the second question mark (and capitalizing appropriately).
I would expect to see something like this in a non-professional context (like “Fakebook”), marking the poster as not a good writer and likely eliciting disparaging remarks from others especially in cases where there is any sort of disagreement between posters.
In the spirit of the thread title, anyone using this construction needs to write gooder.
Cite? I could have sworn I learned the rules as explained in this link: that commas and periods go inside the quotation marks, colons and semicolons go outside the quotation marks, and for question marks and exclamation points it depends on whether they are part of the quoted words or of the whole sentence.
I assume, but don’t know for sure, that the reason for the rule that commas and periods belong inside quotation marks (at least in American style) is that, if they were placed after the quotation mark (which in American style would be a double rather than a single quote mark), they’d look weird, like they were floating out there alone in empty space.
It depends on what you’re writing. Is it just a Facebook post? Are you self-publishing? Are you trying to publish professionally? Is it academic writing? What country are you publishing in?
For Facebook posts, etc., I use asterisks to indicate bolding or italics. For titles, I use quotes. Unless I’m running out of characters, so then I just let the reader figure it out.
The difference between using quotes, italics, and underlining is generally for academic writing. Within academic writing, the general rule is that shorter works get quotation marks and longer works get italics. Outside of that, just use italics for most everything and you’ll be fine (if the platform allows it). The whole idea that some things get underlined is a relic from the handwriting/typewriter days when using italics wasn’t easily accomplished.
I’d leave out the comma before the title, no matter the style I’m writing in. I like the book “To Kill a Mockingbird.” Unless the title is an appositive, such as That book, “To Kill a Mockingbird”, is a literary masterpiece. Where to put the periods and commas will depend on what style guide you (or your publisher) prefers and on whatever “house rules” you’re using.
The Chicago Manual of Style recommends spelling out all numbers between 0 and 100 unless there’s a reason not to. This is my second win this week and my seventeenth overall. They do recognize an alternative system of spelling out only the numbers 0 through 9. This is my second win this week and my 17th overall. Whichever system you use, it applies to both cardinals and ordinals.
Personally, I would use the second. The general rule is that question marks and exclamation points stay with whatever they go with. So Did you like the book “To Kill a Mockingbird”? but Did you like the film “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?”
For the simple declarative of my second example, I’d avoid stacking punctuation and use I liked the film “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?” Some style guides will vary, though.
As you surmised, that’s the American way. The UK does it differently, though they seem to be slowly moving toward the American system in both this and their use of single- or double-quotes.
But I mostly just wanted to advance you a high five for the Purdue Owl link. An excellent resource!
The AP stylebook calls for the quotes.
Underlining is never the right answer.
In the old days, we’d underline book titles on a typewriter — there were not always other options. But in this day and age, where we have options, it’s italics.
Actually, now that I think of it, it was the same on written essays/papers/etc.
The question of whether periods or commas belong inside or outside of quotation marks largely depends on whether you are following American or British style conventions.
Typically considered correct per American style guides:
In the short story “The Lottery,” Shirley Jackson offers a bleak assessment of humanity.
Typically considered correct per British style guides:
In the short story “The Lottery”, Shirley Jackson offers a bleak assessment of humanity.
While I am American myself, to my mind the British convention makes much more sense. After all, the name of the story is:
The Lottery
Not:
The Lottery,
so I don’t know why the comma should go inside the quote marks. I worked as an editor in an office that followed British conventions for 7 years; I was very happy to convert.
The AP style is for newspapers mainly, which don’t use underlining or italics very much, but those are the two standard ways to indicate titles for major works of art (movies, novels, symphonies etc.) in most style guides. The New Yorker is an outlier in its use of quotation marks, but most publications such as magazines or journals use italics.
Yeah, I learned that the punctuation goes inside of the quotation marks but I don’t like it and usually can’t bring myself to do it. I am glad to learn that I can now say that I am simply following British grammatical conventions rather than that I am just flouting grammatical conventions altogether.
You’ll be glad to know that when I heard that argument from one of my writing students, my response was something like “Good. Then you’ll get an English ‘A,’ and an American ‘F’ from me. Best of luck getting that English ‘A’!”