A debate on the intelligence of SDMB posters

Great Debates
21

There was an interesting article in the Nov 99 Esquire on the lives of the super-intelligent. Acording to the article, high IQ is a definite advantage, socially, economically, and academically, up to a score of 150. For scores above 150, people have problems fitting in to regular society, tending to drop out of schools, failing to advance on the job, unable to bear the tedium of dealing with a world that’s designed for average IQ’s. The author refers in passing to academic research that supports his conclusions. I tend to agree, but I also know that there are other academics who believe that higher IQ is always better, that Hi Q people are more successful and better adjusted than average.

When I lived in a college town in the upper Midwest, I knew a brilliant, former English professor who had turned into a mean, homeless drunk. I knew a high IQ former law student, and a high IQ former philosophy prof, who both lost their grip on their original disciplines and ended up driving cab.

As to my own IQ, I’ve tested as high as 165, and as low as 135, but the figure agreed upon by my parents and guidance counselors was 150. Scores can vary widely based on the particular type of test, and I see tests as measuring mainly a person’s test taking ability.

IME, getting the simple things right is important in school, and even more so at work. I’ve tended to botch the simple things and get the complex things right. Provided a person has enough intelligence to handle the job, persistence, good social skills, and good looks (that’s right, good looks, I’m totally serious) become more important in determining who gets ahead.

22

I was one of the posters to the thread in question, and I would like to respond with the following:

I don’t think all of those people, or perhaps any of them (certainly not myself) would claim the be geniuses.

As far as “how smart” various posters may or may not be, I’m sure you’ll agree that judging that smartness in some quantifyable sense is next to impossible.

In high school I dated a girl who went to a school 20 miles away. She was the top in her class (of a graduating class of 67). I remember one night senior year I got a call from her. She was horribly upset because she had an analytical essay for her AP english class due the next day (she was one of 3 people taking AP english independantly) and didn’t know what to do. Didn’t know what to do. She had never had to write one before. I was floored, and running through my head was, “jeez, how can she be ranked #1 in her class and not know how to write an essay?” Well, I helped her out, and all was good. She ended up going on to Harvard and graduated this spring.

She was/is a very bright person. So am I, IMO. But if you had plunked her down in the middle of my senior year english class she would have had a really tough time not having the skills that most of us had had for years. Does that make her less smart?

I think the real issue behind most of the “high school/college was boring because I’m so smart” type rants is that there is a disconnect between what we know, how easily we learn it, how we learn it, what we learn it for, and how we measure that knowledge.

In many ways I’m a very smart person, and in many ways I struggle with learning some things. School has always been fun for me, but much of the work does not pique my interest and I often don’t have the willpower to do it despite that. This, however, has nothing to do with my intelligence or lack thereof.

Perhaps if learning through lectures, class discussions, and reading didn’t come so easily I would have developed the skills required of me to be a hard worker where school work is involved. On the other hand, I might have just given up on school and academics and pursued other things, who knows. But my “brain power” is completely independant of my ability to motivate myself to do work.

23

Me: Unemployed researcher concentrating on American Indian affairs; age 27 (since 1997, when it was fixed in place). Unable to dance or balance a checkbook. Majored in partying at Virginia Tech; graduated with a B.A. in History with appallingly average grades. No honors or accolades to speak of, except those of which I cannot speak in poite company. Lazier than an Alabama porch dog, except when chasing girls, fishing, or drinking.

You: A woman, a fish, or a beer.

24

I don’t believe it has ever been established to a scientific certainty what genius is (or, as recent history would suggest, even what the meaning if is is :smiley: ), but it seems a safe bet that a high percentage of people attracted to this board, as opposed to almost any chat room or the majority of other boards on the net, possess at least better than average intelligence.

It is easy to believe that some of the opinions and ideas expressed on these fora are the product of genius. But the diversity of opinions of people whose intellectual abilities are similar leads me to conclude that genius matters less than the process of argument itself. Non-geniuses can offer up stunning arguments from time to time. And true geniuses (if we can even agree that there is any such thing) can appear stunningly stupid on occasion, since intelligence and wisdom do not always coincide.

I don’t think you are wrong. But intelligence can be suppressed by social pressure in some environments, or its benefits mitigated by lack of personal discipline in others.

It seems more likely that people who do well will be those of higher intelligence than that people of high intelligence will necessarily do well. That people at the top of their professions are usually bright, well-educated and, yes, intelligent seems self evident. But intelligence alone doesn’t predict success. Habits learned early in life, the attitude of one’s parents, teachers and peers, and, to a lesser extent, economic environment can all weigh against achievement in even the brightest people.

I don’t think most people here do overestimate their own cranial power. If anything, the smartest ones seem a little self-deprecating. I think, rather, some of us may overestimate the intelligence of others because we see the generally high level of debate here and only hope we can keep up.

25

I wonder how many of these “geniuses” have actually caught and eaten a roadrunner…

26

Most of my friends feel i am smarter than they are, except I don’t think I am, and one of my friends doesn’t think I am, either. Like Mangetout, he (and I) simply feel I am willing to put more thought into an issue, and thus by the time a conversation rolls around, I have already had a few debates with the anti-erl in my head over different aspects of something and so on.

So I appear to some people to be smart, others to be deep, others to be over-emotional, others to be unemotional, and so on.

I have tested well above average, though shy of genius level IQ, in the one IQ test I took some time ago.

I am not sure what all this means. but, I should say that the SDMB is attractive to people who can and like to think, like bookstores are attractive to people who can and like to read, so we probably will have a statistically skewed distribution of posters. But I think the term “genius” isn’t appropriate, even though some of us here have scored such on IQ tests. We’re good at what we do, like what we think about, and thus are interested in diverse topics deeply. Is this intelligence manifested? :shrug:

I guess that’s a good question.

27

I was always one of the “smart kids.” 1360 on my SAT, National Merit Scholar, etc. and I now work in a job where I can’t be stupid and perform well.

I feel really stupid around this place a lot of the time.

28

What Necros said. I’ve been a well-documented “genius” since I was about six years old, but I also like to absorb myself with tedious little mental exercises that would bore most people to tears and have no practical use in the real world (which is probably why I LOVED taking standardized tests and always did well on them). I edit textbooks, but I’ll never write one. When I need (and/or have the time) to craft a well-thought-out argument, I do better when I can write it out and plan it and foresee objections, rather than when I must respond instantly and clearly. I think that is the skill that serves Dopers well.

29

At the risk of being a smart-ass, I think this statement by DesertGeezer is pure genius. ~grin~

And I echo Necros’ comment about feeling stupid around here (you were talking about the SDMB, right?) I always felt I was pretty smart. Did well in school. Have done well in my career. Then I start hanging around here and find out how little I really know about anything. Sheesh. My head often hurts after reading Great Debates.

30

i haven’t noticed as much bragging as you suggest but i think it is obvious that people on this board are mostly significantly above average. i was in the so called “top class” all thru high school and it seemed like a situation designed to make us compete with each other. it looks like a similar situation sometimes on this board. this is the only board i’ve been on in 4 years where people have complained about my not using capital letters. of course i was really upset.

actually i think the Idiot Quotient concept is stupid. i wouldn’t try to boil the performance of a computer down to a single number, how can it make since to do that with the human brain? to many different factors would be advantageous on different problems. the IQ concept prove psychologists are morons.

we also have to deal with the fact that INTELLIGENCE and KNOWLEDGE are two different things. a lot of knowledgable people try to pretend they are intelligent and want other people to be ignorant so they can get away with it. there is a lot of information hiding going on in thei society and not to many people point this out. i keep suggesting books but not to many other people do it. i have even gotten criticised for it on this board. BIG BRAINS often have BIG EGOS.

when i was in Mensa i suggested creating a recommended reading list. one woman told me point blank, she wasn’t interested. check out the Mensa sights, i haven’t looked in a year but they were really boring. my membership expired in 86.

Dal Timgar

31

I was informed in no uncertain terms in this thread that to some, IQ means absolutely nothing:

Mentioning your IQ comes across as smug superiority and will garner you comments like this:

Wow. I sure learned a lesson about throwing around IQ scores! :o

32

I think at least part of the issue is due to an overly broad definition of “genius”. I know a number of people with IQ’s over 140; not a freakin’ one of us is a Mozart, Da Vinci, Hawking, or anything anywhere near that.

Genius is a rare and beautiful thing. We’ve been devaluing it.

33

How do I get my IQ tested? My SAT score was 1420 but I fear that will become less impressive once they re-balance the tests.

34

Based on my limited experience on the SDMB (I read much more than I post), there seems to be a much larger proportion of intelligent, thoughtful discussion here than on other discussion boards. Posts here are generally well-researched and carefully written, and any wrongs done are generally made right pretty quickly.

One sign of the intelligence of the Dopers I find is that they ask excellent, pointed questions. An intelligent person has to be able to ask the right questions, as well as draw solid conclusions. Most Dopers seem to be able to do both.

Perhaps the best sign of intelligence I’ve seen here, though, is that people who post here are willing and able to admit when they are wrong. When somebody comes along with a better line of reasoning or better evidence, I’ve read many posters here who have given in to the better argument, graciously and reasonably. As I’m sure many of you have experienced other Internet communities or message boards, you must know how very, very rare that is. I find that being able to admit when you’re wrong is an excellent sign of intelligence.

At least, I like to think so. Could be wrong, though! :wink:

As for myself… I’ve never taken an IQ test, and I’ve long since forgotten my SAT scores, so I can’t judge by those. People tell me they think I’m smart, and since sometimes they’re people I happen to admire for their own intelligence, I take it as a compliment. shrug I leave it to other people to decide whether or not they think I’m intelligent. I simply work to improve myself.

I do agree with seawitch and AlaItalia, though. I think that tying “genius” to a test score on a single test devalues the idea of what it means to truly be a genius (goodness knows I’m not one!), and using test scores as a justification for intelligence generally doesn’t go over well. I personally relate intelligence to the things I described above: clarity of thought, keen questions, careful expression. High test scores can indicate these things, but they don’t necessarily reflect them all the time.

Intelligence, in short, doesn’t come from a test.

35

I got a perfect SAT score, my IQ was tested as 170, and I was valedictorian of a graduating class of about 700. I don’t consider myself to be a genius. What have I actually done to merit that distinction? Solving difficult math problems? Being good at taking tests? In many ways I consider myself to have below average abilities. It took me forever just to get my driver’s license. I often get so nervous about not understanding something, like the process for applying for financial aid, that I literally shake in fear. I am not that great a guitar player despite practicing. Recently I gave up on my math/physics double major because I lost interest. Now I am taking art. Somehow I feel better now even though I will probably fail to become financially secure.

36

Actually, I suspect that internet boards tend to attract not very sucessful people (I’m refering to regular posters, here not to occasional visitors). Successful people have a lot of other successful things to do. So, I would assume that there’s here, like on any other board a higher-than-average rate of people socially malajusted, lazy, or with whatever else personnality flaw which prevent them from being successful.
Since I agree with the majority of the previous posters who think people on this board are clearly more intelligent than a random sampling of the population, my take isn’t that big brains=small success, but that people here tend to be at the same time more intelligent and less sucessful (relatively to their intelligence) than the overall population.
So, I suspect the kind of comments you’re pointing at (“my big brain prevented me from being sucessful”) are probably genuine, but coming from a generally biased source, hence aren’t in any way an evidence that there isn’t a correlation between intelligence and success (I’m pretty certain there’s one).

37

I completely and totally agree.

I also think that the people who post here are more likely on average to be of above average intelligence. It’s the nature of the beast, A. this being an internet message board and B. the nature of the subjects discussed here. That being said I would say there are very very few if any true geniuses posting here. I’m willing to bet there are quite a few people who can trot out test scores that prove that on paper they’re a genius. But real genius IMO is rare and is best demonstrated not by a test score but by the value of a person’s contribution.

There have been many times when I’ve thought that being merely bright is worse than being a ‘real genius’ and worse than being average. You are intelligent enough to know what you’re missing by not being a Mozart, DaVinci or Hawking but also intelligent enough to never really be contented with the things that interest and occupy people of normal intelligence.

38

I dunno clairobscur, I think that a lot of these posters have full and productive lives, they just turn to this for their entertainment rather than the tube or golf or a magazine. Debating with oftentimes intelligent people is just more stimulating than many other forms of entertainment. Defending my views forces me to refine my thinking, research my positions, and learn something new. I’ve learned a lot by participating on these boards.

Eris is in good company with his habits

Not only Mangetout …

39

Intelligence is overrated, much to my dismay.

I’d trade quite a few of my IQ points for more grit, determination, focus and confidence. Those will take you a helluva lot farther.

40

If you click on the second link I provided in my previous post, you will see that the evidence does not bear that out. Intelligence (as measured by IQ, at least) does not correlate much at all with financial success.

Now you can argue that IQ is not a complete measure of intelligence, but it really is the best tool that exists at this time. However, since there is no correlation with success, maybe bragging about a high IQ is about as sensible as bragging about having a long pinky toe. (Unless you are engaged in some activity where that fact may be relevant, such as solving certain logic problems quickly or playing a game of tiddly winks with your feet.)

Also, my low post count in no way correlates with success either. Personally, I don’t know how some of these people read or type fast enough to generate their volume of posts even if it was the only thing they did all day.