A debate on the intelligence of SDMB posters

Great Debates
61

Ackshully, the term ‘average’ usually refers to the arithmetic mean, but it can also signify the median, the mode, the geometric mean, and weighted means, among other things. It’s an ill-defined term, and I tend to use it that way to avoid pedantic discussions of statistical minutae in general interest conversations. :slight_smile:

Back to the OP: I suspect that if there is any negative correlation between intelligence and success, it would be because highly intelligent kids don’t have to work very hard to succeed in school, and therefore never develop strong work ethics or study habits. I know that’s the case for me - I went through my school years without ever having to study. I could knock off a 1-hour math assignment in 10 minutes flat. So I almost never had homework to speak of.

I also got away with murder in terms of class attendance. It got so bad that by the time I got to high school I was skipping most of my classes. They let me get away with that because I maintained my grades anyway. Then in university I tried the same thing - and it showed. My marks in university were all over the map from perfect A+'s to F’s, depending on how much material I missed by skipping classes, and also by how much the class interested me. Interestingly, I got my best marks in the toughest courses, but average to lousy marks in the ‘easy’ ones which largely didn’t interest me.

It took me a decade after university to build up the skills I needed to survive in the working world. Now I’m quite successfully and have a nice home and family and all the rest, but I spent a LONG time flitting about from project to project, working on my own stuff, gambling for a living, etc. before I could settle down.

62

I was told when I was fairly young (1st-2nd grade, not sure which) that my IQ was rather high. I asked my parents years later if I’d remembered the number right. Yep, that was it, alright. I scored ridiculously high in the SAT and ACT without any preparation.

Enter now - unemployed liberal arts major with stalled literary and musical careers.

Frankly, sometimes I wish my worthless IQ would have convinced me to listen to my professors and hunker down with Math or Computer Science. I’d probably have a more secure future.

But only sometimes. While the parts of my brain that are well developed don’t translate into heavy money-making ability, some people still like 'em, and I love them for it.

63

In addition to hanging around this board for a while, I also joined Mensa a couple of years ago, thanks to a curious series of events involving a science fiction convention, a writer, one too many Feghoots, and a couple of really good hand massages. I’ve been hanging out at Mensa Regional Gatherings (RGs) for two years now, and, for what it’s worth, I’d say a good RG and this board have a lot in common. Both are filled with interesting, broad minded, incredibly knowledgable people, along with the odd jerk or two. The latter are usually easily identifiable. Both Mensa and this board also have a few incredibly arrogant types (more in Mensa, I’m afraid), but they can be avoided. The conversations, discussions and debates I find on this Board are the equal of any I’ve had with Mensans, and I love the touch of surreal humour which comes out at times.

Bottom line: I’d say most people here are above-average to genius level intelligence. I know there are people around here who are a lot smarter and wiser than I am. Also, if any of you are interested, Pittsburgh’s Regional Gathering will be Labor Day weekend. If you want to see what one’s like, e-mail me and let me know.

CJ
$0.02 USD

64

I’ve a few neighbors at my condo complex who brag of being Mensa members. They might be bright, but to watch them at meetings is quite a treat. They yell and scream when something doesn’t go their way, flip people off, etc. This probably isn’t representative of all Mensa members, but rather the crazy condo complex I live in.

As far as SATs and IQ tests, they are very good measures of what they test. But that is generally the ability to take multiple choice tests. I was shocked the last time I took a multiple choice test at how the right answers were rarely offered, and how often you had to choose the least wrong answer. Math problems weren’t so off base.

In my extensive experience, intelligence isn’t really knowing the right answers so much as knowing which questions are important.

65

Hi Primaflora: I had fiction in mind, namely Ender’s Game and Ender’s Shadow. Also, these threads reminded me of a cluster of movies that played off the genius/school torment themes. Revenge of the Nerds, Real Genius (it had Val Kilmer as the star), War Games (where thermonuclear war is prevented by playing tic tac toe with a computer), Searching for Bobby Fisher, even Peggy Sue Got Married. I also saw Jimmy Neutron, Boy Genius last week.

Perhaps related is the series of movies that dealt with actual prodigies, A Beautiful Mind, Rainman and Good Will Hunting–not sure if that last one was based on a real person.

These books and movies, by the way, are not all bad–I very much liked some of them–many of them even address my issue in that the social outcasts figure out ways to fit in or acknowledge that they don’t always know everything about everything. They have nonetheless helped create the stereotype of the brilliant child who got brilliant without adult help and who is, naturally and inevitably, resented and tormented by schoolmates.

True prodigies do indeed exist; I doubt that even they could be quite as prodigious as the over-the-top portrayals of the Ender books; I doubt very much that their lives are like what we get in this type of fiction.

66

My IQ test came out around 165 about 10 years ago (I was 16). I don’t think it proves very much based on the type of questions I remember being asked. It says less about your ability to learn and more about what facts you have already learned. I could be able to learn anything I want, but if I focus strictly on baseball stats and comic books, then I may be a wealth of info on these subjects, but do poorly on an IQ test because I ignored the subjects they deem important. It doesn’t mean that I couldn’t ace a Calculus/History course if I dedicated myself.

I had straight A’s until 6th grade. Then I got bored and rebelious, stopped doing homework, started cracking jokes, started doing plays, and reading books I found interesting instead of what I was assigned. My grades began a downward plunge that ended with me nearly flunking out of high school because I slept through most of my classes and never turned in any assignments.

Now I live in NYC. I have a phat apartment, a job, a bad ass Dj rig, a production company, and a car. I have written plays, created short films, and I work at a bank to support my artistic endeavors. I am well equipped to step up to most challenges I have decided worthy. I have watched this town chew up and spit out many a cat who came here with better resources and more education. Yet here I still am.

So, what do my failing grades in school tell you about me? What does my IQ mean when compared to my old grades? What does it mean compared to my relative success in achieving goals in my adult (independant) life?

IQ don’t mean too much, I think. Still, people here are on average smarter than those on any message board I have visited. Hell, they are smarter than most people I’ve met IRL. That’s why I stick around. Bragging about it isn’t very nice, but it does make for some comedy sometimes.

To be fair, I’ve also noticed that alot of these smart folks are a little lacking socially. Quick to judge others, conceited, abusive, like to ride high horses, uptight, easily offended, overly PC (to justify a haughty attitude), AKA: sticks in the mud. Is there a test that measures social skills? These are arguably as important as book smarts. A combination of the two is ideal. Alot of highly intelligent folks have a real hard time being consistently nice people.

SDMB posters: Much better than average, but far from perfect.

DaLovin’ Dj

67

Emotional Inteligence is a term sometimes coined to refer to a persons ability to socialize. There are also personality tests like Myers Briggs which give an indication of a persons personality tendencies along 4 axis - (Extrovert/Introvert, Sensing/iNtuitive, Thinking/Feeling, Judging/Perceiving). It isn’t as much a score of how “social” you are as it is an indicator of how you interact with other personality types. For example, I test as eiither ENTJ or INTJ depending on my mood when I take the test. In general, that means I am very logical but also very creative (which I am). If I have a manager who is a ESFP, we would probably not get along well since they may perceive me as “cold” or “ruthless” and I may perceive them as “soft” or “touchy-feely”. Its not an exact science, but such tests can give an insight into why diferent personality types may clash in diferent environments.

I can certainly see how a bunch of identical clones in suits with big egos can look like a bucn of lame-o’s. Sometimes I think if I have to listen to the same stupid “Where do you live? What do you do? Who do you work for? Where did you go to school?” conversation one more time, I’m going to throw that person off the Fulton St station platform into the next 4,5 or 6 train.

I don’t believe that “smart” people hold a monopoly on lame personalities. I’ve met plenty of not so smart people who are quick to judge others (based on their own weird logic), conceited, abusive, like to ride high horses, narrow minded, easily offended, inappropriate or racist (to justify a intellectual inferiority), AKA: ignorent ass-holes.

As for your intelligence, probably has little to do with your success as a DJ when compared to other skills (or is it skilz?). You don’t have to be a number cruncher like a banker or an hired brain like a management consultant.
I couldn’t tell you the average intelligence of people on this board. Some are obviously very articulate and well read. Others, I could hardly believe they had the mental capacity to turn the darn computer on.

Humble Servant - Don’t forget to include Malcom in the Middle on your list of child prodigies.

68

I make it a point to not turn mine off–just in case.

69

The members of this board are either highly intelligent or above average, for the most part.

As for genius, it would not shock me to find that there are not a handful that post here.

Meanwhile, I wish there was a forum for "Good Debates or at least a forum called Introduction to Great Debates.

Some may say that I am easily impressed but irl I do not hang out with people that possess the vocabulary or analytical skills that I see here. I have never been invited to become a member of Mensa and I don’t sit in on any Roundtable discussions. I can boot up my computer without incident but I sometimes get pissed when it asks me questions. I was slightly better than average in high school and I basically blew off college. I managed to graduate in only 12 semesters witha B.S.

70

We think we are smarter…we are an arrogant bunch aren’t we?

I would like to see a comparison of the posts in terms of intelligence, logic, credibility, etc.

There are more than 2,000,000 posts at this time. How many would you estimate as smart vs. ignorant? I am surprised at some of the ignorant shit I’ve read here.

Please don’t misunderstand, I know there are some really intelligent people here as well. But, it seems to me that a bell curve is still appropriate when describing the Dopers as a whole. Maybe a little positively skewed, but FULL of geniuses, I think not.

I also realize the posts are naturally going to reflect a lower average intelligence simply due to the nature of the boards.

But, still gimme a break. How 'bout some cites, you know, compare this board to other similar boards.

or how 'bout cite or post a test that all Dopers could take and then compare scores.

Damn, that sounds like fun. Let’s all take the same test, a quick intelligence test. Let Cecil pick one. I think we could all agree to that. Then post some scores…cool.

Let’s just see how smart WE really are!!!..:eek:

71

I’m not exceedingly smart, but I’m smart enough to avoid taking “intelligence” tests.

72

Well I just passed a driver’s license exam by the skin of my butt. Man those road sign shapes are tough!

73

I can only assume you mean me. I know it sounds like a huge load of crap, but I swear to Christ it’s true. I hesitate to bring it up sometimes, because it sounds like the claim of an egomaniac or a pathological liar. I’m not claiming geniushood, I just developed a skill very early. It’s really not all that unusual.

But I’ll make you a deal, RickJay. Give me your phone number and I’ll have my mother call you and tell you the story, and you post whether you believe her or not. You have to promise to be polite to her, though. She’s a very nice lady. :slight_smile:

You in?

74

I certainly am not going to put myself in a position to be challenging your mother as to the veracity of a story. :slight_smile: I don’t think you need to prove anything to me.

Mandlestam:

Next time, try holding the pencil between your FINGERS.

75

I apologize if that came off as a little snide, RickJay. I’m taking the bar in six days and my nerves are completely frazzled.

76

Gosh, I didn’t think that was snide at all. It seems in good humor to me. Good luck on your bar exam. Don’t take it the way Mandlestam took her driver’s license test.

77

I was a little stung at the OP. I sorta read it as “Ladies and gentlemen, a genius is among us! Should we genuflect?”, but I had some flame coming my way if for nothing else the maudlin tone of my post in that thread. I was posting half drunk and bitter about the injustices of high school (“oh, woe was misunderstood me!”) and I cringed a little when I read it sober. Note to self: Never post drunk. Never, never.

I laid it on embarassingly thick, but yeah, I really could read about as well at age three as I do now. Mind you, I didn’t comprehend everything I read; I couldn’t engage in discourse about the political undertones of the Inferno or anything ridiculous like that. But if you showed it to me I could tell you what it said. I suppose I do like to slip it into conversation now and then, but that’s pretty pathetic when you think about it. You’re talking to a guy whose main accomplisment in life came about when he was three years old.

It’s really not terribly amazing when you think about it. English is a pretty complex language and children learn it by themselves through observation by about the same age. I just picked up on phonetics from Sesame Street and ran with it. When other things didn’t come that easy, I didn’t do so hot. I still don’t know my multiplication tables.

I wasn’t a sterling Mozart-like child, but I was a little advanced. I turned out to be a passably smartish guy, I scored pretty high on my LSAT and graduated law school as salutatorian (one hundredth of a grade point behind the fricken-fracken valedictorian!). But Stephen Hawking, I ain’t.

78

Thanks, man!

Now I have got to get off of the computer. :slight_smile:

79

Hmm. If we’re still posting stats, I’m 3.76 GPA, 1490 SAT, and soon to be attending Virginia Tech for computer science, and making $30,000 - $50,000. I blame several things for our intelligence:

The nature of the beast: If we read a GQ or GD that we know lots about, we can reply. Since a lot of expertise can be found in 20,000 people if they talk about what they know, we may think that because ten or twenty of us know all about topic, most of us do.

Sheldrake’s morphololgy: Seriously. We are in the virtual proximity of Cecil Adams. I for one found these boards after I read the first 3 SD books voraciously and hungered for more.

Also, I do think that the reason that math and English skillz are connected with intelligence is because people have their “giftedness” determined early, when the only skills that can be demonstrated are mathematical and literary. I could read books*before preschool, was shunted into the gifted programs, and ended up where I am. Had I not had my mad literary skillz, I would not have been challenged, and probably would not have developed as I did.

Now let’s hope that Apos doesn’t have to explain me like he usually does.

80

Ah, ha. That explains a lot about me. My mother wouldn’t let me watch Sesame Street because she felt Oscar the Grouch was too rude. No wonder I couldn’t read at a college level at the age of 3. :smiley: