"A Diet For All Reasons" by Michael Klaper, M.D.

Great Debates
61

When there is no more plant food available, then I will use animals for food and be very happy doing it. You didn’t read section 49:21a (footnote), did you?

I will save you the trouble of having to look it up.

**“And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.” **

And don’t forget to read those quotes from LDS prophets.

It starts from here:
http://www.ldshea.org/pages/family_health/family_health.htm

(I put this link, because there are other things to read besides the quotes.)

62

That footnote is a quote from the Joseph Smith Translation of Genesis, JST Gen 9:11: “And surely, blood shall not be shed, only for meat, to save your lives; and the blood of every beast will I require at your hands.” That clearly states that you shouldn’t kill animals for fun, only for meat. It does not say that you shouldn’t eat meat unless you are out of plant food. You might take it that way from the “to save your lives” part, but the Word of Wisdom and the other D&C scriptures show that that is not what was intended.

You can equivocate all you want, and selectively quote prophets all you want, but today’s official Mormon doctrine is that veganism is wrong. There is no way around that.

I personally think it is fine, admirable even, that you have chosen a vegan diet. But when you claim that it is compatible with the Word of Wisdom, I’m going to call you on it, because it is not. It is absolutely stated in Mormon scriptures that, under current conditions, meat is “ordained” to be eaten by mankind, and that despite the restrictions, forbidding it completely is wrong. That much is plain from reading the D&C, which is still the official doctrine on the subject.

63

Also, notice that in the W. of W., it says “used” or “use”. How do we “use” animals for food? Meat and milk products.

64

No, there is no official Mormon doctrine that says veganism is wrong. If you read section 49 in context, you’ll see in the chapter heading that it was dealing with the Shakers. They were forbidding to marry, eat meat, etc. And, you’re right, we have not been forbade to use animals for food, but told WHEN to use them for food: famine, excess of hunger, etc. There are many restrictions. So, when I find myself in a need situation, just as it says in the W. of W., then I will use animals for food.

65

“to save your lives” = during “times of famine and excess of hunger” or “sparingly” (emergency - when do you use your spare tire? In an emergency) or “times of winter, or of cold” yes, when fruits, vegetables and grain may not be abundant…especially during past times - the pioneers HAD to eat meat during the winter/cold for this very reason._

66

I hesitate to comment further, because this is getting very religious and others may not understand.

But - in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve were told:
“…Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.” Genesis 1:29

The earth will become again as the Garden of Eden when Christ returns:
“And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.” Isaiah 11:7

When Christ comes again, there will be no more death and the earth will appear as the Garden of Eden. If the lion won’t be eating meat anymore, you can bet that we won’t either.

So, eventually, no matter what anyone believes, we will all be vegan.

67

Veganism also forbids meat. That is exactly what D&C 49:18 addresses. Official Mormon scripture says that, at this point in time (Millennial predictions and Garden of Eden conditions don’t count), forbidding meat is wrong. It’s that simple. You can rationalize it all you want, but what it amounts to is belief that D&C 49:18 is wrong. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

Unless you can show me a letter from the current LDS First Presidency saying that veganism is okay, and that D&C 49:18 is no longer in force, you will continue to be incompatible with official Mormon scripture when you advocate veganism.

68

You’re not understanding me.

Forbidding to use animals for food, is a far cry from using them for food during times of need as is quoted very plainly in the W. of W.

Therefore, if one of those needs arises in my life, I will not hesitate to use animals for food - because I have not been forbade to use them, just counseled on WHEN to use them.

President Gordon B. Hinckley:
I thank the Lord for a testimony of the Word of Wisdom. I wish we lived it more fully, but even though we do not, the Lord pours out his blessing on those who try. – “My Testimony,” General Priesthood Session, October 8, 1993

This was said in a General Priesthood Session. Why there? Are the men of the Church in general having problems with coffee, tea, tobacco, or alcohol, or might there be more to this?

I know for a fact that the prophet will not get specific about this, because I wrote to him about it. He will not get specific on it, because his calling is to bring people to Christ. We are left to study and pray about this and gain a testimony of it for ourselves, which I have done. I read this book two years ago, and it answered many questions about the W. of W. that I’d had for years:
http://www.ldshea.org/pages/family_health/diet_decisions.htm

69

When I first read this thread, I was tempted to move it to Great Debates, as I felt that the original post was more of a witnessing attempt than anything else. I should have acted on that impulse. I’m moving it now.

Sheri, please read the forum guidelines. If you want to witness, do it in the Great Debates forum.

Lynn
For the Straight Dope

70

Sorry about that, Lynn. I never meant for this subject to take that route. Just answering someone’s questions/concerns. I think I’ve made my point now though, so I’m done with the religious side of this.

Sheri

71

Your missing the point Sheri, you are witnessing about veganism. It isn’t the LDS that’s tipping this thing over.

72

I’m also done with “witnessing about veganism” too. I’ve made my point.

73

Okay, Sheri, I get it now. I thought you were talking about real veganism, but apparently you are talking about a different version of veganism where eating meat is okay in times of need (like the winter or when you are having a famine). Although I don’t think vegans would consider somebody who eats meat in the winter or famine times a real vegan, that position is indeed consistent with LDS doctrine while true veganism is not.

74

Dr. Klaper, according to his own site, has received no formal training in nutrition. A search of the published medical literature turns up no publications regarding nutrition or anything else by Dr. Klaper.

Dr. Klaper’s claims are a wee bit strange. For instance, “Many types of inflammatory arthritis, including some forms of rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Crohn’s associated arthritis, etc., are made much worse by molecules of food proteins that leak through the damaged wall of the intestine and into the bloodstream. These food protein fragments can lodge in joints, inciting inflammatory arthritis, as well as inflammations in other organs [e.g. lung (asthma), colon (colitis), skin (eczema/psoriasis) etc.].”

These statements reflect profound misunderstanding of the nature of these diseases and physiologic mechanisms in the human body. Diet can have a role in modulating autoimmune disease (for instance, there are recommendations based on scientific study that support a balanced diet for rheumatoid arthritis patients including antioxidants and certain long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids), but Dr. Klaper’s unsupported claims don’t cut it.
I am also not reassured by Klaper’s recommendation of something called “Ultra Clear Sustain Power” to cure your “leaky gut”.

It’s nice that he supposedly wants to conduct a research study on vegan diets and health, but he should finish it and confirm his results before promoting unproven claims through his books and videos.

Also disturbing are the apparent connections between Klaper and people well-known to anti-quackery groups, such as Reverend Malkmus and his “Hallelujah Diet” (the Rev. claims to have cured his colon cancer through biblical principles for natural diet and health lifestyle) and Lorraine Day, to whose site Cheri originally linked.

I would not want to trust my health to someone recommended by Lorraine Day.
There are lots of alt med advocates who think that anecdotal reports and testimonials (instead of careful, controlled scientific studies) are all you need to adopt a certain therapy or diet. Quacks and cranks exploit this gullibility in order to sell their books and products.

75

Well, skipping over the discussion about using a religious storybook to define one’s diet, let me add an anecdote:

I’m a meat-eater. So is my dad. Pop is well over sixty years old, and still rides horses up into the mountains several times a year (four trips last year, plus two fishing trips) and hunts his own game. He likes driving his sports car, goes to work on the weekdays and spends time either remodelling his house or working in the shop on the weekends. (And that’s “work” as in rebuilding engines, welding up trailers from scratch, and redesigning car suspensions.)

Never had a heart attack, hasn’t been in a hospital (as a patient anyway, he’s a doctor too) since 1969.

He, like me, might get a mild cold once a year- mine tends to last about three or four days. That’s about it.

No health problems, no bowel problems, no acne, no bad breath, no joint problems. I believe he’s replastering a closet, as we speak.

It’s great that your diet has helped you. As another poster noted, that seems to work for you, but it is not for everyone. A Vegetarian/Vegan diet is, with a few rare exceptions, merely a personal choice or moral decision, no different than considering oneself a ‘democrat’ or a ‘republican’.

However, you’re trying to justify that choice with bad science, and this board is, at it’s very core, organized to stamp out bad science.

76

Even though it’s almost certain to be a waste of time, I feel oddly compelled to point out that the meat thing is, you should pardon the expression, a red herring.

Sheri apparently does not understand what the term “vegan” actually means. Meat is the least of it. Veganism is about shunning any animal product, including honey, milk, eggs and even silk.

Veganism is essentially a philosophical position. It’s not about diet and it’s certainly not about science.

http://www.wordiq.com/cgi-bin/knowledge/lookup.cgi?title=Veganism

77

BTW, The idea that either the Bible or the Book of Morman supports Veganism is complete nonsense. Or do you think that “The land of milk and honey” is actually a synonym for hell?

78

Ummm. Hmmm. Ohhhh. Wwwwwwwewww.

No. You haven’t. The score is still zilch.

79

That’s an excellent point. And hey, for Mormons, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants both use the phrase!

And it brings up a point I forgot – although Mormon scriptures do say some things about restricting meat eating, which could be taken as support for vegetarianism by some, there’s nothing about not eating dairy products or eggs.

As a somewhat-related hijack, I wonder if there are any Mormon Atkins dieters who have reconciled their diet with the Word of Wisdom and other Mormon scriptures. If any are here, I’d be interested to hear the reasoning.

80

See post #63