Like I said, we use the BEST EVIDENCE we have available and draw conclusions from that. For example, we did not have microscopes until about 1590, so before then, the pathological microbiological theory of disease was rather hard to come up with, no?
Right. The kind that has given us antibiotics, non-invasive surgery, the pathological theory of disease–basically anything that has kept you alive until this point. Are you saying that Kepler is not practicing sound medical science in the above statement?
Look, you can make all your arguments about “what feels good is good for me,” but science is the only way to know for sure. Heroin feels great when you do it–but if you do too much, you OD and die.
Cause: Too much heroin
Effect: Fatal overdose
Conclusion: Too much heroin causes a fatal overdose
Replication: Everyone who does too much heroin dies
WOW, SCIENCE IN ACTION.
“aw, but I never felt better…”
I hate to break this to you, but the bible wasn’t actually written in 17th century English. Are you sure that milk doesn’t mean “milk” and that “honey” doesn’t mean “honey?” Well, whether you’re sure or not, I think you’ll find that in the original, they do. I’m sure one of our resident Hebrew scholars will be along in a moment to confirm that “the land of milk and honey” isn’t more properly translated as “the land of soybeans and leafy vegetables.”
As for your snipes at Atkins, you should be aware that there is an immense scientific controversy surrounding Atkins going on right this very minute.
http://www.womens-health.org/press/NewsService/atkins.htm
The preliminary data suggests that the institutional jump to the low-fat model may have been bad science. Further studies are in the works. Unfortunately for you, if these studies pan out, it will pretty much destroy the idea that vegetarianism is somehow “natural” for humans. As I’ve pointed out, those who practice Veganism don’t even pretend that it’s somehow “natural.”
As for the “food pyramid,” even the U.S. government recognizes that it doesn’t work in practice and is re-designing it.
http://www.azcentral.com/health/diet/articles/0128foodpryamid-ON.html
I agree. And that is why I’m saying that we cannot dismiss veganism as “quackery” or, excuse me, we cannot refer to doctors and scientists who support veganism as “quacks”. There may just be things that we do not know yet.
Allow me. Veganism is quackery.
Veganism isn’t science. Veganism doesn’t claim to be science. It’s a philosophical movement. Don’t you people read? You may agree with the philosophical tenets underlying Veganism and so adopt the Vegan lifestyle. That’s fine. But there is no scientific basis for Vegan health benefits (as opposed to garden variety vegetarianism) you’ll never hear an echo from someone who claims otherwise.
Nobody is dismissing veganism as quackery! Stop making that insinuation!
Look, I may have a theory that purple elephants from space are causing all human disease and that we must mount an offensive against them, but I would have no evidence to back it up. Now, people in this thread have made it clear that they believe Klaper has also failed to provide sufficient evidence. This is all anyone has ever said. You talk about the man like he’s your own personal messiah and all, all anyone has done is ask you to provide some concrete evidence. Anything you have submitted has been pretty well refuted (the intestine argument, for example) thus far.
Nobody is condemning vegetarianism. They are condemning Klaper. Please address their points sans hyperbole. That is all.
OK, for the third time Sherri, NO ONE HERE refered to doctors and scientists who support veganism as “quacks” for that reason.
There may just be things that we do not know yet.? Yes, we’re all in agreement here on that one. So what?
Dammit, Truth Seeker, she’s never going to let go of that comment now. 
Yes, and they’ve all done it without even watching the video, which I found to be very sound scientific evidence.
No, don’t worry. I’m not biting.
Hm, well yes! I, nameless, also have a video! Jam-packed with pertinent information that irreparably denounces vegetarianism! Sound scientific evidence in spades! You won’t find this information anywhere else! Oh, but you have to send me $20 to see it. Sorry.
Can you provide any free source of information that refutes what people have said?
Bollocks, with a cherry on top.
There is no such thing as “fallible” science. Properly understood, the scientific method is infallible and gives rise to infallible claims. Science doesn’t make absolute statements. It builds a working model that allows prediction. It also provides a built-in method of refining that model.
When the current model doesn’t adequately predict something, this new data gets worked into a new model that does adequately explain the new data. Science works – every single time.
“Properly understood” is the operative phrase. I don’t think Sherri properly understands the concept of the scientific method in that she thinks revisions to the Food Pyramid are symptoms of a complete and systemic failure of the practice of science…
The Internet. The Library. All free.
(sigh)
Yes. Now go get some of that and bring it back here to support your arguments if you want to be taken seriously.
Yes, I believe science has made loads of wonderful and amazing discoveries. But there is even more still that we do not know. How can we, as imperfect human beings, be so prideful in thinking that we know so much, when there is a whole entire universe that we don’t understand. There is more unknown than known and that is the bottom line, something that we must not forget in our high and mighty technological age. We’ve learned a lot, but we don’t know it all.
You’re kidding, right? It doesn’t matter if it’s free or not. If I bring it here, it’ll get shot down for sure. Nobody wants to step out of their belief system. It’s too uncomfortable.
I fail to see the point. So we should act randomly since science has left so much unexplained? Can you provide rational justification for acting in any other way than in accordance with what science dictates? I don’t think you, or I, or anyone else can.
No, but I think we should all remember where we fall in the entire scheme of things. We are human. We make mistakes. We do the best that we can, but there will always be more to discover, more to re-think. We need to remember that, lest we get “too smart for our britches”. We do our best with what we know, but need to stay open-minded in order to learn new things in the future.
This is infuriating. You give an argument and then fail to provide any rational justification for it, claiming that nobody will consider it. You leap into this forum, tell us all to send money for a video that will change our lives and then produce no corraborating evidence.
Of course your evidence will be shot down. That’s how a debate works. You then pick up the pieces and continue arguing with fresh evidence (if you can find it) concede defeat (if you are so gracious) or appeal to a matter of personal faith.
Have you anything substantial to offer us?