A Feast of Crows by George RR Martin is out today!

Cafe Society
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I finished the book last night. I read it way too fast and now I have to wait for A Dance with Dragons, which hopefully won’t take anywhere as near as long to come out.

Anyway, general spoilery thoughts:

Arya: My immediate reaction was “no way is she staying blind”, but we have had a viewpoint character crippled before, and I dunno, maybe she could be a blind assassin or something… I still think it’s more likely it’s only a test or a temporary punishment though.

Davos: OK, here I can say “no way is he dead” and feel confident. Obviously Martin will and does kill viewpoint characters, but I think there’s no way he’d let us know one was dead through second hand accounts before we even see the situation that led up to it through the character’s eyes. It would rob Davos’s chapters in ADwD of suspense, IMO. And all we have is the word of some Freys who saw a man with shortened fingers. I think someone took a page from Theon’s playbook and used someone else to provide a corpse.

Beric Dondarrion: Dead.

Sandor: Maybe dead. At first I was thinking he was, but it was interesting that Sansa kept thinking about him. And doubly interesting she thinks about him kissing her, when he never actually did in that scene in ACoK. I feel like there’s something being set up there. But I don’t know why Elder Brother the monk guy would lie. Maybe it was a symbolic burial. Sandor buried his “Hound” persona on the Trident and is now a new man or something.

Sansa: I’m not sure what’s more disturbing: Lord Robert’s relationship with her, or Littlefinger’s. Both of their kisses creeped me out.

Cersei: I too had the feeling that maybe she was being played by Taena; that Taena was working for Margaery. But, if that was the case, I’m not sure I can see Margaery allowing herself to be captured by the High Septon. From Qyburn’s report, she is still going to be tried by the holy court, and it’s possible not all of the men will change their tune. That one singer seems like he had the lies tortured into him pretty deep. Seems like an awfully big risk for her to take, unless she has an agreement with the High Septon and the whole thing is for show. And why would Taena flee the city if she was still Margaery’s lady?

I wonder if Cersei will continue to be a viewpoint character? Or with Jaime refusing to be her champion, will she simply die offscreen (or maybe with Jaime looking on even)? In the past Martin has always dropped one viewpoint character from a book, when that character’s story is apparently done, even if the character isn’t actually dead yet (Theon), and I think Cersei is the only character who possibly could be dropped. But Martin did change things up in this book with the inclusion of the Dorne/Iron Isles characters, so maybe he’s not planning on dropping anyone. But I dunno, I just have this feeling that Cersei is done. That her goose is cooked. Though I did kinda think she’d hang on till Daenerys arrived. Cersei kept worrying about being replaced by Margaery, due to that prophecy, but I think the queen who will replace her is definitely Dany. Though since Cersei actually ruled Westeros, if Margaery never does, but Dany does relatively soon, I guess that would count as replacing Cersei.

Brienne: I’m sure whatever it is she said will save her life for the moment, though I can’t imagine what it was. I think if she changed her mind and agreed to fight Jaime to save Pod’s life, she’d have to have said more than one word to indicate that. And she doesn’t know any info about Catelyn’s children.

Jaime: I agree the prophecy about a little brother killing Cersei applies to him, not Tyrion. They’re twins, but I’m pretty sure it was mentioned someplace that she was first out of the womb, so technically it still counts. And Martin is very fond of that Macbeth like prophecy where there is a twist, but it still comes true in a way. Though maybe Jaime has killed Cersei by refusing to fight for her. But that’s very indirect.

And I just gotta say, with all the references to Dany in this book, I can’t imagine how Jaime will react to her if and when she comes to Westeros and takes over. Almost all of the people personally involved in overthrowing or killing her father are dead. Really only Pycelle and Jaime are left, that I can think of. Assuming she does manage to conquer, I could see her sparing just about anyone else if they bend the knee, but not those two. No matter how justified Jaime’s actions were, he still broke his oath and killed her father. Some things just can’t be forgiven. And while I don’t care about Pycelle, Jaime has grown on me. About the best outcome I could see for him if he was captured by her is the Wall. Which would be interesting.

Hmm. That was more than I intended to write, but ah well.

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That’s assuming that a)Qyburn is loyal to Cersei, and b) Qyburn knows what he’s talking about. It’s possible that Qyburn is lying or someone is lying to Qyburn.

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Look, guys, having an entire post in spoiler boxes is pretty much useless. No one knows what it’s about.

Better is to have an intro line so that people have some feeling for whether they want to read it or not, eh?

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My current reread has led me to pick up a detail about life in the House of Black and White that I missed before, and that may give some insight into Arya’s condition at the end of the book.

One of the other three acolytes there, the youngest one, is blind. It’s his job to keep the candles lit, telling which ones have gone out by scent and heat. Right now, I’m leaning toward the idea that blindness is an aspect of the training rather than a punishment.

And another thought, which is so non-revealing that I’m not even going to spoil it:
Why is Littlefinger asking Cersei to send him some of Robert’s old tapestries? What could be in them that he wants?

There’s also a line in the chapter I’m reading at the moment that I really liked. A group of men who have generally not been very involved in the wars yet are gathered for negotiations as guests of a man they’re all pretty hostile to. One of them gets angry and pulls out his sword, threatening the host. This makes another guest furious. He jumps up and says, “Put up your steel, ser! Are you a Xxxxxxx or a Frey?!”

Stupid Freys. Hate them so much.

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On the Cleganes:

I thought at the time that the large, hooded gravedigger on Elder Brother’s island could be the Hound. He limped, and wasn’t the Hound wounded in the leg when Arya left him?
Also, I don’t think its definitive that the Mountain is dead. IIRC Qyburn talked about sending a skull to Dorne as required, but that was it. Its possible that he (Qyburn) has worked some evil with the half dead Gregor Clegane.

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Rysto,

About Taena and Cersei:

It’s possible that Qyburn is lying or wrong, yes. One thing that made me suspicious is how Taena kept putting off bringing her son to court. I just kept thinking that she knew things were going to go bad and she didn’t want to have him be in danger.

Here’s my crazy theory on that… They were old tapestries, and while I don’t think specifically how old is mentioned, I’m guessing they’re from the Targaryen era. Perhaps even displaying some Targaryen kings or other significant events. So why would Littlefinger want something like that? Well… he significantly mentions “three queens” to Sansa in her final chapter. Cersei, Margaery and who? I’m thinking Daenerys. I’m guessing he knows about her. Well, for that matter he’s always known about her, he was on the small council in AGoT when they discuss her marriage to Khal Drogo, but we haven’t seen any indication that he learned about the dragons or Dany’s actions in Slaver’s Bay. But now I think we have. He wants the tapestries so if she comes and Littlefinger meets with her or anything, he can hang the old Targaryen tapestries up and claim to be a loyalist.

lno, about the alchemist:

This I can’t take credit for, but something I saw mentioned someplace else, is that the alchemist is Jaqen H’gar. The description we get from Pate in the prologue matches the one we got from Arya after she sees Jaqen change his face in ACoK. So, he kills Pate and takes his place. But why, I don’t know. Does Marwyn or Alleras know Pate has been replaced? Possibly. It doesn’t sound like the real Pate was privy to Marwyn’s plans, so something must have changed there.

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Just finished reading the book… had to read it as a downloaded ebook because it’s not out yet here in Seoul. I don’t know which hurts worse, my eyes or my neck. Or my head.

General spoilerish thoughts…

Regarding who is Really Dead and who is Not Really Dead:

[spoiler] NOT DAVOS NOOOOOOOOOOO. And the way it was mentioned in passing really pissed me off. I’m sure Martin will tell us what really happened in his neck book… but still. ::huge pout::

Brienne can’t be dead. Not that easily. And what about Sandor Clegane - she sort of saw him, didn’t she? ::hopeful:: Another character I hope who is still alive. [/spoiler]

Regarding Cersei and Margaery:

Merryweather has to be stringing her along. The way she puts off bringing her son to Kings Landing… and even Cersei shows suspiscion for a moment (can’t remember where). And regarding Cersei…I knew she was a bitch, but in this book she was just plain stupid. Giving military power to the Septon…I had to laugh when they locked her up inside the sept. Karma’s a bitch, ain’t it, Cersei?

Regarding Arya:

I like elfbabe’s theory, and it seems to fit. Perhaps it’s not a punishment, but just another step in her training. It would be like Martin to provide with a subtle clue in that fashion.

Regarding Sansa:

She seems to have grown too used to Littlefinger kissing her. Ewwww. That part where he kisses her on the mouth… her reaction is rather mild. Does she not care anymore? And is he really going to marry her off? He’s made it pretty clear he wants her.

I would write more, but sitting for several hours in front of a monitor is not good for back. I really need to read it again though… first time around I was so intent on “what happens next?” that half the time I skipped the details.

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A couple more thoughts:

Regarding the singer that was with Jaime:

What the hell is Tom Sevenstrings up to? For those who don’t remember, he was one of Lord Beric’s men. How did he end up with the Freys, and what is he doing? Is he part of some revenge for Catelyn? He sang “The Rains of Castamere” for Edmure, and Jaime’s request. Why that song? Why didn’t Edmure want to hear it?

Some general thoughts on where the next book or two are going:

As I understand it, originally Martin was going to following Storm with A Dance With Dragons, and have it set 5 years after the end of Storm. However, he found that too many flashbacks were necessary, so he decided to write Feast. Then Feast ended up being longer than Storm, which was too long for his publishers, so he cut the book in half, so now Dance will be the other half of the story, and then the next will pick up the story 5 years later. I don’t really see how this is going to work, though. Cersei and possibly Margaery face a death sentence if convicted, and we don’t know whether Brienne died or not. Are there going to be flashbacks that end those stories anyway? And what of Arya? If it’s training, five years later her sight will probably have been restored, which would make the part in Feast where she gets blinded pretty lame(I despite it when authors pull a bait-and-switch like that).

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On Gregor Clegane:Qyburn mentions to Cersei twice (I think) that he has a “champion” for her that no living man can defeat. I think he’s hiding zombie Gregor in the basement… or at least zombie somebody. I’m not sure where he would have gotten a skull big enough to be Gregor’s to send to Dorne if not from Gregor… but I’m pretty sure that the “champion” has a lot to do with his little necromantic experiments in the black cells.

On Sandor Clegane:Brienne sees two different men wearing Clegane’s helmet. She’s rather delirious, so she gets confused about who they are, but the first is Rorge, the noseless guy who was in the black cells with Biter and Jaqen H’gar. (She makes reference to his lack of nose) She kills him and is brought down by Biter. When she wakes up, she’s with Beric’s (ok, Catelyn’s) people, and the guy wearing the dog helmet is also wearing a dirty yellow cloak. I believe he’s Lem Lemoncloak, who’s been with them for a while.

On Taena Merryweather:Margaery had to realize that Taena was spending lots of time with Cersei - they didn’t really try to hide it. And yet Taena says that she’s spending a couple of days with Margaery’s people to help console her after they get the news about Loras. Why would she allow Taena back after she’s so overtly gone over to Cersei unless it’s part of some kind of larger plan?

On Tom of Sevenstrings:I think he’s still in contact with Catelyn, or someone in the camp is. When Jaime goes to cut Edmure down from the gallows, the fat Frey (Ser Ryman?) is frolicking in his tent with a camp follower. They’re dragged out, and she’s wearing a bronze crown with black iron swords on it - the same as Robb’s crown. Tom is along at that point and has to have noticed the crown. When Brienne sees Catelyn, she’s holding a bronze crown with black iron swords and running her hands over it. I think he stole it and took it to Catelyn. If he’s still on her side, having him around is really not good for Jaime.
The only really plausible way I can see the thing with the crowns happening without Tom bringing it to Catelyn is for one of them to be Jeyne’s crown. Does anyone remember what hers was like? We know that her mother had it taken away from her, but we don’t know when or what she did with it.

Regarding The Rains of Castamere: That was the song that was played at the Red Wedding as the signal for the Freys to attack. It was written as a reference to the Reyne family, lords of Castamere, who were utterly destroyed by Tywin Lannister sometime before the books started for… I don’t remember, doing something that pissed him off. (Not to be confused with the Tarbecks, who also did something to piss Tywin Lannister off, or the Defiance of Duskendale, where they imprisoned Mad King Aerys and also got wiped out for it.)

Oh, and while I remember it…
On Lady Westerling, Jeyne’s mother:Whoa, that bitch was conspiring with the Freys and the Lannisters BEFORE the Red Wedding! That’s pretty nuts, especially because Robb was doing SO well up until that point and her daughter was the freaking queen. What gives? Why do that?
Jaime also notes that her grandmother was “some half-mad witch woman from the East”. I’m betting Maggy the Frog.

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Yeah, I thought that too. Although the part about Jeyne’s mother…I suspected that ever since Jeyne told Catelyn about her mother giving her tea to “make her fertile.”

Wasn’t Jeyne’s marriage from the start part of the plot? Tywin needed to break the Starks somehow… so he convinced the Westerlings to have their daughter “seduce” Robb (although she wasn’t knowingly a seducer, they set her up). Then after Robb broke his promise to the Freys, which Twyin Lannister knew he would do, Tywin went to the Freys and fanned their injured pride. That was one cold bastard.

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I think Tom is in contact with Stoneheart (I refuse to call her Catelyn, heh), but that he didn’t steal the crown. When Brienne wakes in the bandit camp, she learns that Stoneheart is just back from Fairmarket. We find out that that’s where Ryman was ambushed and killed in Jaime’s next chapter. I assume Tom got word to Stoneheart that Ryman would be traveling with a small party back to the Twins, she killed them, and either Ryman or the whore still had the crown. Ryman’s son goes on about how there must be spies in the camp, but he blames Black Walder, when I think it’s just Tom passing on word to (what’s left of) the brotherhood without banners.

That’s all true, but it’s not why Edmure specifically doesn’t like Tom. There’s mention of it, I think, in ACoK, though I don’t have that with me at the moment to check. It’s when Arya is traveling with Tom, Anguy and Lem Lemoncloak, I believe. There’s mention of a song Tom wrote that mocked Edmure, something about a “floppy fish”, and how Edmure didn’t appreciate it.

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Rysto, regarding the “5 year gap” and the general plan for the coming books:

From all I’ve heard, the gap is deader than a discoing dodo. Dance will cover the same general time period as Feast (6 months maybe? It’s not clear to me how much time passes in AFfC really), and then the next book will pick up after that. As you say, there are cliffhangers and urgent situations at the end of AFfC and the following book will have to address that. Martin wanted to put in a break to let some of the younger characters age a few years, but that’s not going to happen now. Instead, they’ll just have to deal with what comes, in spite of being rather young in some cases.

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Yes, Edmure was with a whore, and… well, his fish stayed floppy. :rolleyes: And Tom thought it would be funny to write a song about it.

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Regarding Jeyne and Robb’s marriage:

Oooh, man… I can totally see that. A lot of it depends on things going exactly as planned - Robb, etc deciding to stay with the Westerlings, (why’d they do that? anyone remember?) Jeyne successfully seducing Robb, Robb marrying Jeyne rather than doing the SMART thing and setting her up with a nice man or a big dowry or something, and Walder Frey being pissed off enough to do something as awful as the Red Wedding. But I suppose it would’ve been a pretty good plan even if it hadn’t worked quite as well - any break with the Freys would’ve been a problem for Robb, and even if he hadn’t married Jeyne, Tywin probably could have spun it into some kind of PR problem for him - the Young Wolf despoils innocent maidens, etc.

On Lady Stoneheart:Yeah, she’s pretty awful now, isn’t she? Even the other outlaws are unhappy with the way things are going. I mean, I certainly approve of the killing of adult Freys, but beyond that… geeyah. Anybody think she can be redeemed? (possibly by something involving contact with the Blackfish, who just escaped Riverrun?) Or is she going to be a heartless zombie bitch until she revives someone else, like Beric did to her, and dies for good?

On Tom o’Sevens again:Amok, you’re probably right - I got slightly confused because we see Stoneheart with the crown before we hear about Ser Ryman getting caught by outlaws.

Oddly, I don’t remember any references to the song about the floppy fish, and I’m generally pretty good with details. Better reread! :smiley:

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Also… uh… Amok? Is that Amok as in amoka.net?
If so, :eek:

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Heh. Nah, though I should change my username or something, 'cause you’re not the first person to ask. But no, my use of this nick predates my joining this board in 2000 even, way before I was aware of that site. So, it’s just coincidence that I use it and am also a big fan of ASoIaF.

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Got my copy today and plan to start reading it tonight and on a plane thursday! Just finished re-reading book 3 in anticipation which is why I’m a bit behind getting the book.

Must…not…read…spoilers…

-XT

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If you look at the first Tyrion chapter in A Storm of Swords, Tywin Lannister tells Tyrion that the Westerlings or working with the Lannisters to bring down the Freys.

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To bring down the Starks, obviously. Sorry about that. Westerlings conspired with Lannisters to break the allegiance between Starks and Freys.

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Aw, you should’ve said yes! You’d become very popular.

Does he really? I’ll have to check that. Is that before or after Robb marries Jeyne?

On the word valonqar:IIRC, Maggy the Frog says “the valonqar” not “your valonqar” - could be important. “A little brother” gives a lot more wiggle room than “your little brother” does. It could be talking about anyone considered a brother - a monk, a member of the Night’s Watch, even just the younger/smaller (little is ambiguous) of any two brothers, like Sandor and Gregor Clegane. (If they weren’t dead, I mean.) The idea that Cersei might be killed by a monk isn’t that unlikely now that the church has imprisoned her. Plus, I don’t see any reason for Maggy the Frog to leave that single word untranslated unless she intended to be ambiguous and confusing.

Also, I’ll bring this question out of spoilerland to see if we can get an answer… does anyone remember who was first out of the womb, Jaime or Cersei?