If it was me, it might turn my suicide into a murder suicide.
No, seriously, if you’re into God, it’s cool. But if you’re not, it’s a big steaming pile of “no one understands me” bullshit. Which is kind of the last thing a suicidal person needs.
usedtobe is a suicide rights advocate. His problem with suicide helplines is that he thinks they are unfairly biased in favor of dissuading callers from suicide.
Right. So then, what terrible thing exactly does he think is going to happen when a caller is told this? Spontaneous pregnancy?
They said pretty much what some of the responders here have said. Since I’m not close to her outside of the class, they suggested I give her the number and say I was concerned because of what she told me, and encourage her to call the number. The operator said it was better that she be a little peeved(if I’d totally misunderstood somehow) and to err on the side of caution.
Is this information from another thread? I’m sorry, I don’t know anything about him other than what’s here. I guess I read his comment very differently. That is, that there are some suicide help lines which are used as religious recruitment tools, rather than truly being interested in suicide prevention per se. That they prey on the vulnerable by steering them toward Bible study/church membership, and the preventing the suicide is actually pretty incidental to their real goal: proselytizing. I *have *run into those types. And the problem there is as I said; mentioning God’s opinion, or even existence, to a person on the edge who is a- or anti-theist may be enough to trigger a rage that will tip them right over.
I think that’s a whole separate issue from the right to suicide (which I do support).
But perhaps I’m not interpreting his post #29 correctly. Hopefully he’ll be back to clarify.
I know that once a thread is started the OP usually has no control over the direction it takes.
But as the OP, could I ask you all, as a personal favor(I’m not a mod) to not argue amongst yourselves and get high handed with each other?
I started this thread because I’m concerned for a human being I know and happen to like, asking for advice, and not as a forum where people say that mentioning God might turn a suicide into a murder-suicide(very bad “joke”), or to be cynical about the motives of the other posters.
Please, let’s get along with each other.
Baker, do know that whatever happens with your classmate, it’s not your responsibility to solve things for her. You’re trying to help, I don’t want to diminish that - I’m just saying, what happens here is on her. You didn’t ask for this. She just dumped it on you. Handle this knowledge however it seems best to you. If she’s not happy with the result she has no one to blame but her own loose lips.
You know what? You’re absolutely right. I apologize, that was a very insensitive joke to make. Mea culpa.
Post 29 was exactly “Know who/what you are recommending BEFORE you recommend it”.
Yes, there are and number of “crisis intervention” (crisis being: pregnancy, suicidal ideation, relationship crisis, others) who are about recruiting/proselytizing their religious beliefs, and referring a person already under stress to such a group is going to be massively counter-productive.
For those of Faith to be told that their own, personal God will hate them if they don’t to as they are being told is a cruel use of religion.
While I suspect that 99.99% of Suicide Hotlines are, in fact, anti-suicide, at least some of them are concerned about the well-being of the caller.
Baker Sorry - I had missed the part that she ad specifically mentioned death, and not a vacation, as an objective. Sorry.
If you want to help your friend, please do not get the law involved - find a legitimate counseling service and recommend it. And be prepared to visit (and maybe chip in to the legal fund) if she gets locked up for saying the nasty word in the presence of the wrong person. Don’t forget to feed her cats.
Yes, I do believe a rational person has a right to suicide and hope the oft-posited “Suicide Clinics” become realities, and do so soon.
A severely mentally ill person is not rational…:smack: hence, the need for medical intervention :smack:
That sounds like she was recanting to avoid the authorities from taking her to a mental hospital or something. There are people who still think psychiatry is like One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.
People with mental illnesses don’t seek help because 1) they think people will dismiss their worries and accuse them of lying or overdramatizing their situation or 2) they will be “punished” for their problems with being locked up in a mental ward and being treated with lobotomy strength pills and straightjackets and electroshock therapy. They also fear that if other people find out they have a mental illness other people will avoid them, assume they are dangerous, and prospective employers in the future wouldn’t want to hire them. Mental illness is still highly stigmatized as the flaw of a weak or self-indulgent person.
Maybe your friend reacted that way because she felt guilty that you had to rearrange your own schedule for her “insignificant” problems or she felt overwhelmed at the idea that you might commit her to a mental hospital.
I know you meant well, but in these situations it’s best to sit down and talk and listen with the person, and encourage them to try a session with a therapist.
I’ll also add that there are some people who would fear calling a suicide hotline because they are afraid the suicide hotline would call the police on them, even if all they really wanted was to vent their feelings when they are overwhelmed. Many suicides do want to be talked out of it. They want help but they are afraid to ask for it.
A severely mentally ill person is not rational… hence, the need for medical intervention
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I respect the right of anyone with a psych diagnosis to make their own decisions, including suicide, BUT, as Judi Chamberlin once said, addressing a roomful of antipsychiatric activists, “You may have the right to commit suicide but that does not give you the right to commit suicide in my living room”. She went on to elaborate: if you announce your intention to kill yourself, you don’t get to then say to me that I have no right to intervene. You want to kill yourself without my interference, don’t TELL ME ABOUT IT.
** raises hand **
Yep, sure are. I’ve been to many conferences where very large conference rooms were chock-full of people who would tell you from personal experience that psychiatry, at least of the institutional variety, is very much still like One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.
Renifer, I agree, although hard to believe.there are still some people around who think that way
And many more who do not care to find out if "Cuckoo’s Nest: is or isn’t a fair portrayal.
My 72 hours at the doorway indicated it is.
Can’t have it both ways:
'Then don’t tell me about it" - which is fair all by itself, but then
“How can I help if you don’t tell me?”
Which is it folks - you want to leave us the fuck alone (if you’re not going help, at least stay out of the way) or do you insist on some “intervention” crap (who came up with that "let’s gang up on our “friend” and make them feel:
- even worse
2, they have no one they can trust.
We’re getting some pretty confused messages here, folks!
The message is - if you don’t want other people involved in your suicide attempt, don’t drag them into it in the first place. If you do drag someone else into, you don’t get to dictate their actions.
Other people are not your puppets. They’re not just their to be your audience.
Here’s my addendum: hurting other people makes the suicider a shithead, even if he’s irrational and in oh so much pain.
Baker
Its very cool you wanted to help this lady. More people should care, it should just be “the right thing to do” much the same way it is the right thing to do to offer assistance to others in distress, a stranger whos car broke down, an elderly person, etc.
Its encouraging that there is more education on the subject of mental illness. I read that a medical center is adding a new psychiatric wing, to serve mentally ill persons, although our society has a long way to go still. It was encouraging to see most posters here take this issue serious, it should be taken serious, just like any other medical emergency. Nami is a great source of educational and advocacy services, one thing they do thats critical is fighting stigma, as some people still are stuck back in the dark ages with ignorant mythical beliefs about mental illness
You can tell me you’re feeling miserable, and desperate about it. I will listen; I may not be able to do much more than listen, but maybe I can. Dunno. I won’t subject you to incarceration or forced psychiatric treatment or participate in other folks’ efforts to do so.
If, however, you tell me it is your plan to kill yourself, I have to assume you’re telling me in order to elicit a response. All bets are off.
The only place confusion seems to be coming from is in yourself, there is nothing baffling about the concept of providimg medical imtervention for a person who is sick. Helpiing someone is not “ganging up” on them, I think whatever it is that you struggle with, is causing you to view things in a distorted way. Medical help is not persecution
There are times when medical help IS persecution: when medical personnel assume that they know what is best for me and proceed to take action regardless of my protests. This really does happen, as many of us could testify, and not just in the mental health field. Up to the point where I begin frothing at the mouth or fall unconscious I choose to make my own decisions, thankyouverymuch.