This seems like a very helpful approach. Whatever your friend’s true feelings, making it a more relaxed conversation from the get go might be the way to have a reasonable conversation about their general state of mind without provoking a more serious response.
I don’t have much experience with this, but I do want to try to help. Sorry if it isn’t. I’m not trained in any of this. I just looked up a suicide forum and wondered if that might be helpful. Does it have to be a social worker? Maybe talking with other people about their experiences might help. Or at least there might be more resources that might help.
Caveat: I’ve never posted there and reading some of it requires registration, so I don’t know what it says. You might want to preview it before you let your friend know about it.
I’ll also echo the sentiment about maybe calling the suicide prevention line for your friend. They might be able to give more helpful information.
I also thought the idea of calling an international helpline was interesting.
That suicide forum has a listing of helpline numbers here.
I agree with this - in order to be “locked up” someone needs to express a very specific plan. General talk of suicide is probably not that novel to health care providers. And in a mental health context, probably fairly routine.
I did work as a crisis counselor. It was a different area, but it included suicide prevention training.
I will go along with what a number of others have said. Your friend can call suicide prevention hotlines. They cannot get him “locked up” unless very specific criteria are met AND your friend provides them with information on who he or she is, where he is, etc.
Instead the goal would be first to talk and assess and second to help your friend get access to resources in his or her community for further help. And, btw, if all your friend wants to do is talk, that’s ok too. You can also call and assess the situation on behalf of your friend.
I’ve never regretted not killing myself, and I’ve thought about it several times and planned it out a couple. There have been many times I’ve thought there was nothing to look forward to, but if I look back there has always been something I am really glad I did not miss out on. I see death as final, and everything else is at least marginally “less worse”- even though I’ve been depressed every day of my last 30 years.
I attempted suicide in spring of '90 and checked myself into a local hospital’s psych ward in '94 instead of making another attempt. They put me on Prozac and I stayed there for about a month.
Again, I was there completely voluntarily. Could have left any time I wanted.
Dear Frank:
Sorry to hear about your friend. It’s always a tough time when “the black dog” comes to visit. Sometimes he sits on your chest and growls, too, and that’s the worst.
Some nights are very long and very dark and it’s easier to curse the darkness than most anything else.
Sounds like you want to help your friend and that’s good, because he needs your help, your friend, now more than ever. Even if it’s nothing more than someone to listen and maybe understand, that’s a start, that’s something, it’s important.
The people here on this board, in this thread, have given you good advice; they think your friend needs intervention. Obviously you do too, but your friend is making it very difficult to get that intervention going on.
Let me tell you about a friend of mine who was saved by a good friend much like you … someone who knew just when to intervene and how to do it. Let’s call the helpful friend “Bruce” (because that was his name) and let’s call the hurting friend “Richard” (because that was his name too).
Richard had a terrible death in his family and that grieved him immesely. And then his longtime partner was unfaithful and they had a messy grotesque breakup. And shortly thereafter he lost his job. He sunk deeper and deeper into sadness and was less and less able to function.
So one night Bruce went over to his house and knocked on the door. When the door opened he said, “Got any liquor in the house?” Bruce was admitted to the house and given a bottle of scotch. He grabbed the bottle and Richard and said, “Get in the car. NOW.”
Bruce drove our friend all the way from Atlanta to Chattanooga … talking to Richard all the way. Yes, they broke the law too, because Bruce opened that bottle and they passed it back and forth between them. And they talked and talked and talked.
It was the middle of the night when they got to Chattanooga … Bruce pulled up the car. “What do you want to do?”
Richard said, “I don’t know … except that i know I don’t want to go on like this.”
Bruce said, “You can’t check out. We have things to do. There’s still scotch in this bottle.”
And they drove all the way back to Atlanta from Chattanooga and Bruce bought Richard breakfast at a Waffle House. And Richard had the first real meal in he had eaten in a while. (He told me later it tasted pretty damn good.)
Bruce drove Richard home and later that morning Richard went to see his doctor. He was placed on medication and sent to a specialist, who put him in a group wher ehe spent a lot of time talking to other people.
Bruce called Richard every day for a while … and stopped by the house often.
Richard got a better handle on things. He found a new job and he rebuilt the rest of his life with help from friends like Bruce.
Now this is probably not your standard intervention … but that’s what worked for Richard.
Any Waffle Houses out your way? Go see your friend and hold his hand and talk and listen. Make him talk. Make him eat. Take him to the doctor.
None of my business and I don’t know your friend but is there anything I can do to help you? You know how to get ahold of me in various ways, including here. We’re all in this mess together, you know, and we need to look out for one another. Dopers are looking out for you here. Let us help you and your friend.
I’m glad you were able to avail yourself of help. I myself had some hospital stays in the '90s. This is a very different time, though. A month-long stay would be almost unheard of these days. The goal of a hospitalization is stabilization and connection to outside resources. Discharge planning starts the moment you’re admitted, essentially.
I keep thinking—there’s got to be a sweet spot somewhere in between.
Seriously. You and your friend don’t have to do this by yourselves.
You weren’t calling for yourself, though. Different protocol. I wouldn’t talk this guy out of reaching out for help with misinformation.
Also wonder how much Frank values this guy’s fear of being locked up over his life. If it is a friend, and you value his life, you would value it over his fears of being locked up or his being mad at you.
Been in this situation, did call the police. No regrets.
Frank, tell your friend if he promises not to kill himself I’ll give him $10. And a Charter Member account on my message board (a $50 value!)
Seriously, please call that hotline number.
What always got me through the immediate, urgent part of that horrible feeling was that if I gave in to it, then they won. And I would be damned before I let anyone but me win.
Once I got past the immediate part of it, I got professional help and treatment.
What you do depends on where your friend is in his cycle, but the most important thing is to derail the repetition of thought that this is the only solution. Once you break that, you can help him get the help he needs. The hotline numbers are a good resource; use them.
You sound like a good friend. Good luck, to both of you. I hope you both get past this in the best way possible, and I also hope you know that there are people here willing to help or to lend an ear and a shoulder.
I’ll second the offer - minus a membership on my board, cause I don’t have one - but Ill modify it - if your friend reaches out to a professional, however anonymous, Ill give him $10. And a friendly, nonprofessional ear if he wants one. I have toyed with that kind of feeling before, and I know how bleak it can be.
Feel free to PM me.
Any mention of suicide to a MD (and probably other “mandatory reporters”) in CA will get you a 72 hour hold, followed by, at the discretion of the Attending MD, a recommendation of institutionalization.
I know. Been there. Luckily, I got a shower and back into my regular clothes when the Judge swung by for the Institutionalization hearing. The 2-faced bitch (she had talked to me about a walk-in clinic, then signed the paper to have me locked up) lost. She did delay discharge until I threatened legal action under Habeas Corpus .
It is NOT a trivial matter - and, if you are seriously depressed, one that will get you locked up.
Anonymous national suicide hotline. No way to identify where or who your friend is. He can call from a blocked line. The hotline can tell him whether in his state (because it varies) suicidal thoughts are enough to trigger a hold, or whether the person must have a plan.
I’m sorry your friend is having a hard time.
I know you’re going through a tough time, and it must really hurt and suck. I’m very sorry for that and hope you either can get the help you might need or find the peace you seek in some way…
[moderator]…but come on, Frank, you still can’t say those words in this board[/moderator]
Obviously I feel like a louse having to tell you that under the circumstances, but you’re a good guy, from what I can tell, and deserve to have a content life. I hope things get better for you ASAP
I would like to sincerely apologize for this outburst, especially to chiroptera, at who it was randomly aimed. It was inappropriate for MPSIMS, out of line, and uncalled for. I am sorry.
It is good to hear you say so – thank you for that.
For what it’s worth, I took the outburst as a by product of some pretty hard stress, and not as something to get resentful over or something. I took it as something understandable.
Considering how arbitrary the modding seems to be here recently, you might have arbitrarily chosen to let this one slide.
Don’t apologize, and don’t sweat the small stuff.
Please tell your friend to call that hotline number.