A pitting for Paul_was_in_Saudi

For his performance in the Why don’t liberals and Democrats fully embrace atheism? thread, starting here:

I’m not going to quote any more than that, there’s too much to quote and you can go over there and read it. His hateful responses there, basically saying that if oppression doesn’t amount to genocide then it doesn’t count as oppression, got the thread closed for a while (for taking it way off track) and not-quite-a-mod-note from Raventhief, which I wish had been stronger for the disingenuous shit Mr. Paul was spewing in that thread.

So thank you, @Paul_was_in_Saudi for telling us all who you really are. It’s really too bad you ever left Saudi, clearly you had found a home there for your hatefulness and bigotry.

Although that thread was fucking ridiculous from the OP, Paul found a way to really fuck it up terminal style. Fucking Hitler and Stalin. Whay a fuckstick.

I think he lived in religious autocracies so long that it rotted his brain.
He also seems to think atheism is a religion, whereas Communism in Russia and China looks a lot more like a religion than any atheism I’ve ever seen. Saints, holy write, icons, killing anyone who espouses heresy.
As for the impact of religion in the past 50 years, maybe Northern Ireland rings a bell? Sri Lanka? Religious wars are hardly over.

I was very confused by his claim that Stalin followed modern science. Has he never heard of Lysenkoism?

If you haven’t either, here’s a link Lysenkoism - Wikipedia

I was also confused by his claim the Nazis were atheists. Yes, they destroyed established religions. But IIRC Himmler and Hitler had plans to establish an official neo pagan state endorsed faith. I had a great link to site about the elaborate SS totenkopf (death’s head) rings and the shrine and practices associated with them. That site is no more.

Here’s another Wikipedia link SS-Ehrenring - Wikipedia

Hey, at least he’s right about the Nazi’s being athiests,


Again from Wikipedia

And from Himmler

"“We believe in a God Almighty who stands above us; he has created the earth, the Fatherland, and the Volk, and he has sent us the Führer. Any human being who does not believe in God should be considered arrogant, megalomaniacal, and stupid and thus not suited for the SS.”

I cannot conceive of a definition of “atheist” that fits this man.

Yeah, but he wasn’t a True Christian!


A public elementary school kid who paid attention in social studies should know better than that shit. For fuck’s sake, they used religious iconography in everything. Hitler was obsessed with religious relics.

Hell, just one who went to the movies…

Was the apogee of modern science in the day and the place. Of course it was mistaken. Nowadays our science is perfect. Yessir. Not a chance at all that we are wrong again. Nonesoever.

In any case, I seem to be getting a vibe that religious people should just take it when people make bigoted comments. Telling people to shut up seems antithetical to the exchange of ideas.

You guys enjoy yourself. I have started a new retirement job and will not be back online until the end of the day.

I never know when my leg is being pulled.

“God is with us” was of course the German Army motto. It predates the Nazis.

Imo, atheism is a religion in the since that its an absolutist belief system not supported by facts and bogged down in semantics as to what a deity is or isnt. No one knows and no one is ever likely to know if the universe has some sort of a creator. Now agnosticism on the other hand is closer to the truth as we understand it…’ Agnostics assert that it’s impossible for human beings to know anything about how the universe was created and whether or not divine beings exist.’.

I’m a Christian, too. No one was being bigoted toward religious people in that thread. In fact, quite the opposite: people were defending Christianity throughout the thread.

A poster pointed out that they were scared to come out as queer because of the well-known and well-documented bigoted violence and discrimination from Christians toward LGBT people. He didn’t say that all Christians would be that way, but it only takes one.

You then decided to mock him by acting like the only thing an LGBT person would have to fear is being prayed for. That’s not even true now, let alone in decades past. And even if you were somehow unaware of the history, the tone was clearly mockery.

We have a duty as Christians to care for the oppressed. Mocking them is not caring for them. Their talking about the darker parts of our history is not them oppressing us.

The attitude that we Christians are the oppression victims is what gets us labeled as selfish people who only care about those who are like us. The reality is that, 99 times out of 100, we are not the one facing persecution—at least, not for being Christian.

Having such a large chip on your shoulder is not good. It’s exactly what leads to the politics of resentment we see today, where people are willing to compromise their Christian principles to go after “the enemy.” You know, where you hear Christians talking about “owning the libs” and “liberal tears.” It’s almost as damaging as the other childish attitude of “you can’t tell me what to do!”

It really isn’t, though, and I say this as a religious person myself. Atheism is just not believing in God. That’s it. It has no dogma or doctrine. It says nothing about “how the universe was created” or anything like that. It posits no moral code, no value system, no mythology, nothing.

Yes, it’s not an entirely factual thing. But that doesn’t make it a religion. It’s as much a religion as theism is.

That’s not to say that it is not covered by “religious freedom” since such inherently has to include living without participating in religion, regardless of your beliefs. You know, just like freedom of speech means you have a freedom not to speak, that freedom to assemble means you have the right to not assemble. Heck, if you assume the Second Amendment is about freedom to bear arms, it still inherently contains the freedom to NOT bear arms.

So while I’ll argue that it is inherently protected under religious freedom, it really isn’t a religion by any normal use of the word.

Heck, as pointed out, atheist doesn’t even mean that you aren’t spiritual.

No you miss the entire point. It was driven by a desire to have reality conform to what the revolutionaries wanted it to be. “Lysenkoism” has become the byword for politically driven pseudoscience precisely because it was not the apogee of modern science in the day and place at all. Mendelian genetics was. But it got stomped on by the revolutionaries in favour of Lysenkoism for political reasons. Did you actually read the Wiki article?

And the Nazis were entirely incapable of effecting change in their army, and would have been unable to stop the army issuing badges that had both Nazi and theist elements. Right? Does the sand get in your ears down there?

There should be some sort of sticky about this given how often it comes up.

No. You have been suckered (like an amazing number of others) by the number one strawman theists fabricate about atheists. An atheist is broadly a person who has no belief in a deity. A minority of atheists (often known as “hard” atheists) not only don’t have a belief in a deity but actually have a positive belief there are no deities. They are relatively rare. I think I know of one active Doper who is a hard atheist, and recall another couple from a decade or so back.

Theists like to strawman atheists by attributing “hard atheist” views to them, so they can insist atheists have a positive absolutist belief system, which they can attack. In reality, theist fantasies are the only place you are actually likely to meet a hard atheist.

Interestingly, atheism encompasses agnostics since they don’t believe there is a deity which means they are atheist. Many agnostics don’t like to admit this because of the negative connotations surrounding the term “atheism” in religious cultures.

Edited to add: do you actually not know this? You’ve been here ten years. It’s been explained over and over. Or is it at the level of wilful ignorance (as it so often is, in my experience)?

So true! As an atheist myself, I’m happy to tell you that my main hobby is not collecting stamps. What, not collecting stamps isn’t a hobby? How dare you! It’s as much of a hobby as atheism is a religion.