3 Then were gathered together the chief priests and ancients of the people into the court of the high priest, who was called Caiphas: 4 And they consulted together, that by subtilty they might apprehend Jesus, and put him to death. 5 But they said: Not on the festival day, lest perhaps there should be a tumult among the people.
14 Then went one of the twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, to the chief priests, 15 And said to them: What will you give me, and I will deliver him unto you? But they appointed him thirty pieces of silver.
I’m betting PRR’s crapping himself to be likened to Jesus. Which would be mildly amusing except the analogy is entirely incorrect. Nobody sold out PRR but himself. So if you were to posit that Judas offered the 30 silver bits to Jesus and Jesus took it and took off, you might be close.
Not to mention the fact that that which reads as ‘degrading’ to some isn’t at all to others.
What is it with people that they don’t seem to understand that individuals have different opinions from each other? Why does this seem so foreign to so many people?
Whatever mental experience is was that turned you in to the religious person you are now cannot be explained rationally. You have faith that the experience was a sign of God, as opposed to believing that the experience was a sign of something wrong in your brain; that was your choice.
So, Bryan: Which pinkie? You ask me which pinkie? Oh, sure – now you start nickel-and-diming me on the terms, looking for a way to weasel out of the whole thing. And here I was going to let YOU pick which pinkie. :mad:
Okay, buster, if you insist on getting into subparagraphs of subclauses of ancillary riders of side letters, here’s the deal: Right hand. Thumb and first three fingers placed with fingertips on top of head, positioned in a circle no more than 1.75 inches in diameter. Pinkie to be sticking up at an angle not less than 55 degrees.
Oh, and since we’re specifying every detail: You have to sing it in falsetto.
If I developed a belief in God, it would, of course, be entirely by choice. Even by the beliefs of Christians (except possibly Calvinists), it would be so. Free will, and all that.
I’ll add that I phrased “something wrong with your brain” improperly. There is a section of the brain that responds to religious experience. If I can find it, I’ll cite the recent comment (I think in Discover) that this is the same section that responds to sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll.
Or perhaps PRR could be read as Judas, who sells out his principles for cash. Liberal, of course, is Caiaphas, who pays to make his problems go away. Jesus might be symbolic of the integrity of the SDMB that What Exit? was concerned about in the OP. “The ancients of the people” represent all those who encouraged the deal; “subtilty” is Bryan Ekers; “a tumult among the people” is tomndebb; “thirty pieces of silver” are the sexual favors for which “$500” is a code phrase; and the “festival day” is special guest star Mark Goddard from Lost in Space.
Must I explain every last detail of these parables?
I think people need to come to some agreement over the meaning of ‘choice’. To me, the concept of ‘choice’ involves rationally assessing various options, and then picking among them.
Key here is ‘rationally’. If you have issues with thinking rationally, you’re not going to be able to make that choice. And, on some levels, I think it’s very difficult to ‘choose’ what you believe when it comes to God. The kind of ‘believe’ we use when discussing relgious faith is different from believing that Bush is a liar. In the former case, you make a leap from intellect to feeling. And I think it is almost impossible to talk yourself into feeling something.
You can stop yourself from feeling things; you can learn to not hate or to stop being jealous. On the other hand, you’d have to work very hard to make yourself feel jealousy if you’ve never known how. You’d be hard put to learn how to feel anxious if you never have. Similarly, you could not ‘choose’ to make yourself feel faith in God.
I don’t ‘choose’ to believe. I just do. Nothing you can say to me intellectually will make a difference because we are more than just intellect, and ‘choice’ operates at the level of intellect only.
**PRR ** would be glad to see you finally admitted to the Brain Damage part.
Seriously, as one without faith in God and zero faith in “all too human” Churches, I understand the point you are trying to make and I know I am not qualified to speak on it, however I doubt your testimony is sufficient for someone like **PRR ** or **Frank ** to answer your question.
Let me ask you a question, can someone choose not to have faith?
I think they can. I think if you start asking enough questions about a church you belong to and its history and tenets it would be simple to lose faith in the church and then possibly in God altogether. No church stands up well to a study of their history and the personalities involved in interpreting “God’s Word”.
Terrifel, once again I am floored by the completeness and beatitude of one of your posts. You did this a few months ago in a **Tolkien ** thread if I recall correctly.
Jim {Curious: if I am concerned for the integrity of Jesus’s message, might I be Paul/Saul in this extended metaphor?}
See, the problem with people what ain’t got faith is that they continually mix up ‘God’ and ‘church’ or ‘religion’. Big mistake. Wrongo. Go directly to jail and do not collect $100. Faith is not about the men or women or buildings or books.
