A pitting of Liberal and the Mods that let it happen.

The BBQ Pit
1

I apologize up front; this pitting will not have much if any cursing. Not my way.

I am upset and disappointed in the recent exodus of pseudotriton ruber ruber. Liberal in a very scummy move decided to make a point and buy **PRR ** off the board. That is correct, he paid **Pseudo ** $500 to leave the Dope. I think this is a terrible offer, a stupid point and a lowlife thing to do. I think Liberal has actually just damaged the integrity of the board.

I am for this reason upset the Mods allowed this to happen. The ones paying attention apparently found the whole thing funny. I realize **PRR ** was annoying the hell out of people. I realized he made what appeared even to me to be an unjustified attack on tomndebb, but do you really want to let Liberal do your dirty work for you? If you allowed this to happen because he was a jerk, than you should have just suspended him and put up with the small protest that would have occurred. I expect dumb ass shit from Liberal. Hell he is known for his big dramatic scenes and his attention whoring. What I really cannot believe is the fact the mods stood idly by and just enjoyed it.

Shame on you samclem and to a lesser degree Frank. I liked both of you. I think you both do a great and thankless job. This was beneath you both.

Jim

2

How exactly do you propose they regulate such things? They could not allow discussion of it here, sure, but with the newfangled private messaging and that e-mail jazz, there are ample methods of communicating an offer. What are they going to do, force prr to keep posting, and prevent Liberal from sending the check?

3

[QUOTE=Garfield226]
How exactly do you propose they regulate such things? They could not allow discussion of it here, sure, but with the newfangled private messaging and that e-mail jazz, there are ample methods of communicating an offer. What are they going to do, force prr to keep posting, and prevent Liberal from sending the check?
[/QUOTE]

They could have stopped it earlier. **Frank ** was in the thread long before the deal got done and I notified the mods twice. Once very early. They could have stepped in and stopped it and let people cool down. They could have simple told liberal to not make offers like he did and to cease and desist. Why would that be too difficult?

Yes, they still could have done it off-line or even in person, but I am disappointed in the fact they chose to just sit back and watch.

Can I ask, do you see a problem with what Lib did?
Do you see any integrity issues as far as the board is concerned?

Jim
Side note: I have to say I am amazed to see you defending the mods. I had you penciled in as one that would always attack them. Another false impression of mine that I was wrong about. Like the integrity of the board itself.

I apologize for my assumptions about you.

Jim

4

PRR had every opportunity to refuse. He did not. This is like blaming the other woman when one’s spouse has embarked upon an affair. All PRR needed to do was refuse to play. He did not. That’s nobody’s fault but his own. I pit you for thinking otherwise.

5

[QUOTE=Quiddity Glomfuster]
PRR had every opportunity to refuse. He did not. This is like blaming the other woman when one’s spouse has embarked upon an affair. All PRR needed to do was refuse to play. He did not. That’s nobody’s fault but his own. I pit you for thinking otherwise.
[/QUOTE]

Of course **PRR ** could have refused. I did not say otherwise. He and Liberal are both hot-headed posters. This is why we have moderators. To prevent things detrimental to the board. **PRR ** made his decision he is gone and I will Email him occasionally, mainly about Baseball. He is a RedSox fan and I am a Yankee fan. We have a friendly rivalry going.

Let me clarify, I am not asking he come back or be allowed back. The twisted deal is done. I just do not think the deal should have happened in the first place.

I hope that might explain my position better.

Jim

6

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Can I ask, do you see a problem with what Lib did?
Do you see any integrity issues as far as the board is concerned?

Jim
[/QUOTE]

Not particularly. If people started buying off folks left and right, or if there was a concentrated effort to buy off a particular viewpoint or something, I’d agree there’s a problem. I don’t think this will start an epidemic of people paying others to leave.

7

Hey, I offered to chip in $20 for the cause! I’m not gonna be real supportive of this Pitting. PRR is a jerk who I won’t miss in the least.

8

Could somebody give a summary play-by-play of what happened. I haven’t been following the eight page monstrosity that spawned this.

9

[QUOTE=Garfield226]
Not particularly. If people started buying off folks left and right, or if there was a concentrated effort to buy off a particular viewpoint or something, I’d agree there’s a problem. I don’t think this will start an epidemic of people paying others to leave.
[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your reply. You are probably correct. I guess I just do not like to see it started. Will the mods step in the next time something like this happens?

[QUOTE=silenus]
Hey, I offered to chip in $20 for the cause! I’m not gonna be real supportive of this Pitting. PRR is a jerk who I won’t miss in the least.
[/QUOTE]

I understand, you should probably arrange to send Liberal a $20 in two years. :wink:

I understand why you dislike PRR, I am trying to make a point about the precedent this deal makes. It appears very dishonorable to me. Besides, I thought you were just chiming in as a joke in that thread. It was early on. I never expected Liberal to be serious or everything to happen that did.

Jim

10

[QUOTE=Billdo]
Could somebody give a summary play-by-play of what happened. I haven’t been following the eight page monstrosity that spawned this.
[/QUOTE]

You can have a summary, or you can have a play-by-play – not both.

Basically, lib and prr were doing their usual cha-cha of mutual loathing – lib said “I’ll give you $500 to go away” – prr agreed --** lib** waffled – commentary was offered by the usual suspects, et al. – but ultimately** tris**, whom both parties agree is a trustworthy person, offered to be the go-between and the deal was struck.

If prr doesn’t post here for two years, under his current or any other persona, tris will send him the $500 he’s holding for lib.

11

What precedent? As far as I’m concerned, it’s a mutual agreement between the two of them, and only the two of them. Prr didn’t have to accept, but he decided that $500 was worth more than his posting privs for a couple years. So, fuck him.

12

Hey, I’m an atheist and I can ratchet up the in your face factor. I’m never one to look down my nose at $500.

13

I had no idea annoying other posters could be so profitable.

Something to think about.

14

[QUOTE=twickster]
You can have a summary, or you can have a play-by-play – not both.

Basically, lib and prr were doing their usual cha-cha of mutual loathing – lib said “I’ll give you $500 to go away” – prr agreed --** lib** waffled – commentary was offered by the usual suspects, et al. – but ultimately** tris**, whom both parties agree is a trustworthy person, offered to be the go-between and the deal was struck.

If prr doesn’t post here for two years, under his current or any other persona, tris will send him the $500 he’s holding for lib.
[/QUOTE]

Excellent summary twickster, I was composing this and so I will post it. It includes a little background.

Here are two points of views on the lead up to the train wreck.

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
Badchad was coming under attack for his relentless Polycarp stalking, and for some reason PRR seemed to take it personally. PRR goes ballistic, then he starts claiming that tomndebb and the whole board is completely biased against atheists but he won’t give evidence because no one would believe him even if he did, and this went on for pages and pages and pages. Then he keeps starting threads like this, and that’s about it.
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I will try. pseudotriton ruber ruber was a relatively quiet poster who did not make waves for years. Recently he got fed up with the “The Religiously deceived” and threw his support in various threads behind an unpopular poster Bad Chad. Bad Chad had already built up a lot of ill-will by constantly attacking **Polycarp ** and only posting about/against religion and skirting the rule of “Don’t be a jerk”. As pseudotriton ruber ruber supported him in a series of threads and is a very militant atheist, he has now pissed off many people who either think he is too rude, a jerk or actually just hate him for being a militant atheist. Compounding the problem is **Polycarp ** is a well liked poster who has long history of positive contributions to the SDMB.

So pseudotriton ruber ruber has gone from a poster that was either unknown or mostly liked to a poster that has ruffled many feathers. A few of his “fans” leapt into this thread to find offense at his title.

I think this is a fair summary,
Jim
[/QUOTE]

Liberal made an offer in disgust of PRR to just go away.

[QUOTE=liberal]

Obviously, none of this is going to change. So I have a possible offer for you. If I give you $500, will you just go away?
[/QUOTE]

Some of us, including PRR thought Lib was bluffing and PRR called his bluff. In the end neither stubborn ass would back down and Lib is out $500 for his “Victory” and PRR is done posting.

Jim

15

I thought the whole deal fell apart when Liberal started making bullshit conditions up. First it’s “If I give you $500, will you just go away?”. Then when it’s accepted, it’s “Since {snip} you are not to be trusted, here’s the deal. As of the timestamp of this post, if you do not post for two years, then I will send you $500…”. What a fucking weasel. Yeah, HE’S not to be trusted. What a God loving, philosopher king weasel.

I agree there’s not much the Mods should do about it though. Pretty saddening that some Dopers actually thought Liberal was being anything but a squirmy little shit about it though.

16

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
Of course **PRR ** could have refused. I did not say otherwise. He and Liberal are both hot-headed posters. This is why we have moderators. To prevent things detrimental to the board.
[/QUOTE]

Why is it detrimental? They are both adults. Both could have chosen not to play. If anything, it was a classic testosterone event and one amusing to see. **PRR **clearly goaded Liberal into fulfilling the deal. Had he not continued to claim Liberal was ‘faking’, etc. it may well be that it might have ended as a regular fest of sabre-rattling with both parties retiring to their respective lairs to do battle again another day. But it did not because PRR did not want it to.

Do not blame Liberal for PRRs actions here. It was a game of chicken and nobody dodged, though both could have.

I don’t think that SDMB is about to be awash in similar incidents; this was an interesting exercise in human dynamics.

As an aside, both the protagonists asked you to quit interfering; they made their choice to continue and did not want Mommy or Daddy to rule them. I don’t think it needed Mod interference either.

17

[QUOTE=What Exit?]
I think Liberal has actually just damaged the integrity of the board.
[/quote]

How? I honestly don’t get this. How does a deal made between two adults for something that is perfectly legal “damage the integrity of the Board”? One offered to pay money if the other would leave; the other accepted. Lib didn’t have to make the offer, and prr didn’t have to accept it. But they did, and that’s their business. So where’s the damage to the Board?

The only reason I can see for them to not allow it to happen is if they just don’t want people transacting business on the Board. If they had said, “Look, you want to buy or sell stuff, take it to e-mail, that’s not what this forum is for,” I would have no problem with that. But I don’t see why you would expect them to intervene to stop Lib from making the offer or prr from accepting it. They’re moderators, not babysitters and not anyone’s conscience or still small voice of reason.

What “dirty work” would that be? You seem to be implying that (a) the mods let this happen only because it was prr when they wouldn’t have let it happen if it were a different poster; or (b) the mods somehow put Lib up to it. I’d like to see any evidence of either.

I think this thread isn’t your shining moment, Jim. If you do prr the courtesy of believing he is an adult who can make his own decisions after evaluating all the consequences, then you shouldn’t be firing at the mods for “letting” him accept the deal, you should be firing at him for accepting it. I can understand your anger if you liked prr – I’d be mad too if a poster I really like took such a bargain – but that was his decision. On what basis would you expect the mods to intervene? To save him from himself? That’s not their role.

I can see you pitting Lib, though I don’t believe it’s necessary. To whatever reputation he may have had before, for good or ill, he now is the guy who quite literally paid someone a not-insubstantial amount to go away. That’s going to follow him around a long, long time. But if both parties are satisfied with the deal, miserable deal that it was, it was not the responsibility of the mods to save them from themselves.

18

I dunno. I am very suspicious of principled stands that allow one to act all self-righteous. If someone offered me $500 to leave this board, I’d have to be an idiot not to take it, IMO. I’ve got a broken furnace, a bathroom that is either gonna be remodeled or gonna collapse in the next twelve months, a car that’s on its last legs, and a host of other expenses.

This board is, without exception, primarily a form of entertainment for all its users. That includes me, that includes Lib, that includes prr. It is not a place where principle is important, because the stakes here are so damn low. Minds are very rarely changed, and real public policy is never affected, and food is never put in a belly nor bullets prevented from being put in a head.

Given a choice between keeping this place as entertainment and getting $500 that could be spent on something I need, I cannot imagine being so wrapped up in myself that I’d choose the former. Even the deadly risk of being considered a hypocrite wouldn’t be enough to keep me around.

prr’s attitude toward theists was frequently embarassing for this atheist, but his acceptance of the money seemed to me to be the only rational choice.

Daniel

19

[QUOTE=Terrifel]
I had no idea annoying other posters could be so profitable.

Something to think about.
[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure you are joking, but this is part of what I was concerned about.

[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
What precedent? As far as I’m concerned, it’s a mutual agreement between the two of them, and only the two of them. Prr didn’t have to accept, but he decided that $500 was worth more than his posting privs for a couple years. So, fuck him.
[/QUOTE]

Not quite, he is to not post again and will not get his payment for two years. You are correct; he did decide $500 was worth more than his posting privileges. He said close enough in an Email to me.

I made no claims that **PRR ** should come back. The deal is done and he is gone. Apparently few will miss him. Fine. I am complaining the deal should never have been allowed to be made on the dope and that Liberal was scummy for making the offer and following through on it. Neither thickheaded poster would back down. It is a shame and that is the end.

If you are fine with what Liberal did, then we disagree. If you dislike PRR, that is fine by me, I actually liked the guy, despite his recent postings that left me confused. I do not think he crossed the line, many others do.

Jim

20

Seems like an interesting concept that could be really useful in a wider application. I envision a kind of auction system, where we can offer competing bids on voluntary banishment for unpopular posters—a sort of eBan, if you will. It could even be integrated into the board itself as an enhancement, along with all those other awesome new features we’ve been expecting!